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Doctor Fate Matchup Discussion

Jowabunga

Woooooooooooooo!
I play a ton of this with a friend and he and I main Aquaman and Fate respectively and have played a ton of the matchup. He's making me work harder than he did when the game first came out but I'm still winning roughly 7 of 10 matches consistently. "Zone him" is the best advice really, just do it intelligently and avoid trading with tentacle/spear as Fate loses to both. You'll never keep him out permanently and with that in mind I highly recommend labbing Aquaman yourself so you're familiar with his kit and especially his frame data... which is nucking futs. Out of his 11 or 12 strings FOUR of them are +7 or better and you'd do well to familiarize yourself with those to help you learn when you can and can't press buttons. As with most other matchups, F2 into DB2 is your friend.

One question I do have for other Fate-ists though... my friend leans way too heavily on Aquaman's crazy range jumpins just because he can. If I'm really careful about my spacing I can AA with F2-DB2, but if spacing isn't ideal that move gets poked out by the jump-in. Has anyone tried D2 or B1 as AA with any success?
 
Skipped to last page, so not sure if this has been answered yet but:

How do you guys/pro's deal with darkseid and batman? Haven't played many supergirls but I imagine that one is rough, but faced a couple really good batman's and darkseid's and I feel fate is having a hard time in those MU's
 
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babalook

Noob
I think against superman's zoning you're better off not going into trait and just trying to stick the three ankhs on him. Also, mb roll is vital for punishing air lasers. I think mb roll is going to play a much larger role in meta once people realize when they should be doing them.
 

Kotal_Wannabe

AKA AndyPandy
What do people think of the Ivy match up ?
Ivy seems fine to me. Dr fate heavily out zones her. If she decides to punish your amon ra spam with vine drill, just keep spamming and trade with her, amon ra does more dmg. Eventually she'll have to come in so punish her advance. Not really a tough matchup imo.
 

gibster13

A fan of fans
Ivy seems fine to me. Dr fate heavily out zones her. If she decides to punish your amon ra spam with vine drill, just keep spamming and trade with her, amon ra does more dmg. Eventually she'll have to come in so punish her advance. Not really a tough matchup imo.
When she does the shield thing, we lose every trade I am sure
 
so far I've been able to outplay some BAs online, but what would you recommend is the appropriate check during full screen? I know you should avoid orb from that far to stop getting hit lighting. Other than Ra blast and blocking what else would you guys recommend?
 
I play a ton of this with a friend and he and I main Aquaman and Fate respectively and have played a ton of the matchup. He's making me work harder than he did when the game first came out but I'm still winning roughly 7 of 10 matches consistently. "Zone him" is the best advice really, just do it intelligently and avoid trading with tentacle/spear as Fate loses to both. You'll never keep him out permanently and with that in mind I highly recommend labbing Aquaman yourself so you're familiar with his kit and especially his frame data... which is nucking futs. Out of his 11 or 12 strings FOUR of them are +7 or better and you'd do well to familiarize yourself with those to help you learn when you can and can't press buttons. As with most other matchups, F2 into DB2 is your friend.

One question I do have for other Fate-ists though... my friend leans way too heavily on Aquaman's crazy range jumpins just because he can. If I'm really careful about my spacing I can AA with F2-DB2, but if spacing isn't ideal that move gets poked out by the jump-in. Has anyone tried D2 or B1 as AA with any success?
b2 stuff everything from the air, even beat clean the mb boot from black adam, just imagine how good it is.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
As of today I have come up with my own matchup chart after grinding against the entire cast. Players I faced were Zyphox, Destroyer, Kandarr, King Tiza, Eldriken, and more.

Aquaman: 4-6
He outchips us outside of trait, can react to orb calls with a db2, and using db2 in this matchup means we eat trident rushes.

Atrocitus: 5-5
Probably one of the most weirdest matchups ever. We have to watch out for the Bloodnado and immediately Dex-Starr when he comes in with F223. If you keep him fullscreen, its fine because it won't matter if Fate trades a projectile with the bBoodnado.

Bane: 7-3
Bane really can't do anything here. MB roll gets you outside of the corner when he starts to corner you, and not only do we break armor on the rage charge with our projectile, we are actually able to punish it with F2u3 and send him fullscreen again.

Batman: 4-6
Although this matchup is winnable it is very hard. Batman is one of the few characters whose crouching hitbox ducks all our fireballs outside of midscreen so this gives him time to get his trait out and rush us down. MB orb is key in this matchup as it allows you to walk back and zone him out. Also, don't try to anti air him with b2, use j1. Lastly, pushblock him if he has bats out and MB roll out of the corner with an orb to cover yourself.

Black Adam 4-6
We actually do win the zoning war but if he blocks ANYTHING, he can check us with black magic and quickly get a life lead. MB divekick is a serious problem as he can punish whiffed projectiles. One touch from him also means that we can't sit back and zone him so we have to go in. Trading with Black Magic is in his favor and if he blocks a db2, he can check us with F12. However, we can punish him for doing so with a d1xxdb2. It is extremely important to have trait when you engage up close so your db2 actually becomes a launcher.

Black Canary 6-4
She lacks good range to compete with F2 and as long as you respect lvl 3 trait she can't really get in. If she touches you once though, then it could be game over. Push blocking her and knowing stage interactbles that she can use to get in are very import here.

Blue Beetle: 5-5
I feel like this one could change but he floods the screen with projectiles very fast. This matchup is literally all about abusing chip damage from trait. Also, BB does have ariel mobility so if he starts going for air shots on you, block and check him with your own. At no time should BB use Blade Stance here.

Brainiac 6-4:
Brainiac does not have much to deal with our fullscreen game. The best way to go about this matchup is to stand inside MB Orb so he can't approach from the air. If he starts becoming too predictable with mobility, you can punish him with a j1 for taking to the skies. But yeah, standing inside a MB Orb shuts Brainiac down.

Captain Cold 6-4:
Literally zone him out and don't even worry about trades once you activate trait. Respect the MB ice wall and watch for MB rolls and this match is very easy.

Catwoman 4-6
Where to begin? Her crouching hitbox and B3 goes under everything, we can't anti air her and her damage is crazy. We also have to be aware of MB catdash. That said, your best bet winning this is to abuse MB Orb and keep her locked down. If you have trait up with ankhs, punish MB catdash with a throw since she her hitbox makes 1,1 whiff. If she whiffs a B3 and you can't whiff punish it, consider either calling an ankh or an orb.

Cheetah 4-6
Very similar to Catwoman as zoning her seems impossible. Standing inside of MB orbs is a great way to shut her down from advancing on you. Predator pounce lets her low profile all of our zoning options and gives her an ambiguous fullscreen jump in. If she has trait out and touches you, clash immediately. Again, MB roll out of the corner as you approach it.

Cyborg 6-4
Zoning war, we outchip and win all trades. Very boring matchup. If he tries to grapple in, J1 will take care of him or you can jump stand inside MB orbs. If he tries to MB B3 or F3, F2xxdb2 breaks it.

Darkseid: 4-6
He zones us out super hard, out damages us, and we can't trade with him at all. Oh yeah, he also has 50/50s. Minion creates serious mindgames and stops us from advancing. MB F3 on his wakeup is useless since it gets armor broken and blocking it lets him be plus.

Deadshot: 3-7
Honestly don't even bother playing this one. You can't trade, you can't dash, you basically don't even get to play the game. If you are lucky to corner him and try to MB F3 his wakeup, sucks for you because your F3 gets armor broken by his MB knee. Trust me, he will always have bar.

Doctor Fate: 5-5
PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW, "PIERCING LIGHT OF ADAM ROTH," "VENGEANCE OF HORUS!!!"

FireStorm: 6-4
We win the trades, especially in trait. He doesn't have anything that can compete with F2's range. The only thing you need to be careful of is walking back since molten trap can catch you. You can easily abuse MB F3 on his wakeup too.

Flash: 6-4
We can lame him out but honestly I feel this could be 5-5. If he blocks your db2, he can "punish" it with a 50/50 into over 50% and corner carry. Use ankhs in zoning here a lot to stop him from vibrating from fullscreen. On the brightside, Flash doesn't have the normals to compete with F2's range, lacks a good wakeup and isn't threatening from fullscreen in the slightest. MB Orb will keep him locked down giving you time for ankhs or even a healing orb if you want.

Grodd: 6-4
MB Orbs all day, everyday and stand inside it so he can't do his Harambe leap on you. If he activates trait and gets the projectile immunity off, pushblock him when you get the chance, respect the range of Mind Control, and abuse MB Roll if you see him go airborne.

Green Arrow: 6-4
Lame him out. He can't outzone us because of trait and the fact he has to load arrows. He is also another another character that can't compete with F2 range and gets locked down by MB Orb.

Green Lantern: 5-5
We win the zoning war, but he can win trades or react to orbs with his MB battery blast. His B1 out ranges our F2 so playing in his footsie range is extremely dangerous. Waking up against his setups is impossible as well since our inputs will be reversed. Blocking a db2 means we have to respect the B1. If you can keep him fullscreen, this one isn't too bad.

Harley: 6-4
Gunshots may seem annoying but as long you duck and check her with your own projectile its fine, and that includes her air gun. Although she can't compete with F2's range, you have to be extremely careful if she blocks a db2 since her ia j2 can actually sometimes punish it or be very ambiguous.

Joker: 7-3
He gets zoned out hard. Even if he goes for an armored Crowbar run, we break the armor with our MB'd projectiles and his jump arc makes it hard for him to get over orbs. Abuse MB B3 as your anti air since his J3 hitbox is insane and respect his d2 range as it is very deceiving.

Poison Ivy: 5-5
This matchup is all about who gets the first touch. If Ivy gets it, she sets up trait, and locks you down, and if Fate gets it, he can stop Ivy from putting up her Bark skin which negates chip damage. In terms of damage from zoning we win, but up close we lose. If she goes for MB F3, we can react with a MB B3. Remember she has no real wakeup either so abusing F3 on knockdown is very strong should you corner her.

Red Hood: 3-7
BAD! VERY BAD! His B3 lets him do everything Catwoman's does and he has aeriel projectiles. If he blocks ANYTHING from fullscreen, he can dive in with DF3 and we can't stop him. He is also one of the few characters in the game that can always punish db2 outside of trait so getting cornered is death. Playing Footsies with him too is like death since his b2 has greater range than F2. MB F3 or B3 can be parried or easily broken. He will always have bar from trait and we can't punish his overhead option, making any blockstring from him 8-10% chip damage.

Robin: 6-4
He has no projectiles but has extreme range. Keep him out and this is easy. He can use trait to teleport past orbs so be ready punish or check him. Waking up on him is not the best idea since he can stay out of range and punish it.

Scarecrow: 5-5
We can lame him out but as soon as he gets in its over. His F1 has crazy range and low profiles our projectiles. Staying in footsie range is a bad idea since he can easily become +6 with Mb Fear Blast. Abuse MB Roll to prevent yourself from being cornered, lock him down with MB orb, and don't let him get a life lead. If you drop below 10% and Scarecrow has trait, the match is over.

Supergirl: 5-5
Very similar to Harley in the fact that her lasers will be annoying. That said, block and duck them and then check her with a projectile. We win the trade and chip war, especially with trait. React to the teleport and punish it with max damage so she has to come to you. Avoid being with her B12 range since it outspaces our F2. Throwing, F3, and pressuring on wakeup is recommended here since she has poor wakeup attacks.

Superman: 3-7
The worst matchup by far. He can full combo punish db2 outside of trait with f23, abuse air lasers on us, his damage makes it impossible for us to come back and his zoning damage makes it so keep away is useless. You can try to MB roll on reaction to the air lasers but if your read was wrong, hold this 50%+ into corner carry. You can't even backdash on wakeup because the 3 after F23 punishes you for it. I won't be surprised if this ends up as an 2-8.

Swampthing: 7-3
This poor character. His jump makes it so he can't jump over orbs, hell we can punish him for jumping on reaction with a projectile. He can't really stop the abuse of F2xxdb2 and his wakeup is poor.

Wonder Woman: 5-5
She can parry our projectiles and check us with shields on the ground or in the air at just outside midscreen. Keeping her locked down with MB orbs is the way to go here. Respect her wakeup and punish it according unless its a MB shield bash. In that case, just walk back or make a read on her doing a b2 and punish it with a MB F3. Remember to duck her bf1 if she starts doing it at the end of strings and full combo punish the gap of 223 so she is not always +12 on you.

EVERYTHING IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE IN THE FUTURE SINCE THIS IS JUST PERSONAL THOUGHTS AND EXPERIENCES.

@Pig Of The Hut
@OmGxBdON
Your thoughts?
 

Jowabunga

Woooooooooooooo!
Thanks for taking the time to post that. Fabuloso.

Aquaman matchup: do you know what the startup frames are on trident rush (mb or otherwise)?
 

Wetdoba

All too easy...
As of today I have come up with my own matchup chart after grinding against the entire cast. Players I faced were Zyphox, Destroyer, Kandarr, King Tiza, Eldriken, and more.

Aquaman: 4-6
He outchips us outside of trait, can react to orb calls with a db2, and using db2 in this matchup means we eat trident rushes.

Atrocitus: 5-5
Probably one of the most weirdest matchups ever. We have to watch out for the Bloodnado and immediately Dex-Starr when he comes in with F223. If you keep him fullscreen, its fine because it won't matter if Fate trades a projectile with the bBoodnado.

Bane: 7-3
Bane really can't do anything here. MB roll gets you outside of the corner when he starts to corner you, and not only do we break armor on the rage charge with our projectile, we are actually able to punish it with F2u3 and send him fullscreen again.

Batman: 4-6
Although this matchup is winnable it is very hard. Batman is one of the few characters whose crouching hitbox ducks all our fireballs outside of midscreen so this gives him time to get his trait out and rush us down. MB orb is key in this matchup as it allows you to walk back and zone him out. Also, don't try to anti air him with b2, use j1. Lastly, pushblock him if he has bats out and MB roll out of the corner with an orb to cover yourself.

Black Adam 4-6
We actually do win the zoning war but if he blocks ANYTHING, he can check us with black magic and quickly get a life lead. MB divekick is a serious problem as he can punish whiffed projectiles. One touch from him also means that we can't sit back and zone him so we have to go in. Trading with Black Magic is in his favor and if he blocks a db2, he can check us with F12. However, we can punish him for doing so with a d1xxdb2. It is extremely important to have trait when you engage up close so your db2 actually becomes a launcher.

Black Canary 6-4
She lacks good range to compete with F2 and as long as you respect lvl 3 trait she can't really get in. If she touches you once though, then it could be game over. Push blocking her and knowing stage interactbles that she can use to get in are very import here.

Blue Beetle: 5-5
I feel like this one could change but he floods the screen with projectiles very fast. This matchup is literally all about abusing chip damage from trait. Also, BB does have ariel mobility so if he starts going for air shots on you, block and check him with your own. At no time should BB use Blade Stance here.

Brainiac 6-4:
Brainiac does not have much to deal with our fullscreen game. The best way to go about this matchup is to stand inside MB Orb so he can't approach from the air. If he starts becoming too predictable with mobility, you can punish him with a j1 for taking to the skies. But yeah, standing inside a MB Orb shuts Brainiac down.

Captain Cold 6-4:
Literally zone him out and don't even worry about trades once you activate trait. Respect the MB ice wall and watch for MB rolls and this match is very easy.

Catwoman 4-6
Where to begin? Her crouching hitbox and B3 goes under everything, we can't anti air her and her damage is crazy. We also have to be aware of MB catdash. That said, your best bet winning this is to abuse MB Orb and keep her locked down. If you have trait up with ankhs, punish MB catdash with a throw since she her hitbox makes 1,1 whiff. If she whiffs a B3 and you can't whiff punish it, consider either calling an ankh or an orb.

Cheetah 4-6
Very similar to Catwoman as zoning her seems impossible. Standing inside of MB orbs is a great way to shut her down from advancing on you. Predator pounce lets her low profile all of our zoning options and gives her an ambiguous fullscreen jump in. If she has trait out and touches you, clash immediately. Again, MB roll out of the corner as you approach it.

Cyborg 6-4
Zoning war, we outchip and win all trades. Very boring matchup. If he tries to grapple in, J1 will take care of him or you can jump stand inside MB orbs. If he tries to MB B3 or F3, F2xxdb2 breaks it.

Darkseid: 4-6
He zones us out super hard, out damages us, and we can't trade with him at all. Oh yeah, he also has 50/50s. Minion creates serious mindgames and stops us from advancing. MB F3 on his wakeup is useless since it gets armor broken and blocking it lets him be plus.

Deadshot: 3-7
Honestly don't even bother playing this one. You can't trade, you can't dash, you basically don't even get to play the game. If you are lucky to corner him and try to MB F3 his wakeup, sucks for you because your F3 gets armor broken by his MB knee. Trust me, he will always have bar.

Doctor Fate: 5-5
PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW, "PIERCING LIGHT OF ADAM ROTH," "VENGEANCE OF HORUS!!!"

FireStorm: 6-4
We win the trades, especially in trait. He doesn't have anything that can compete with F2's range. The only thing you need to be careful of is walking back since molten trap can catch you. You can easily abuse MB F3 on his wakeup too.

Flash: 6-4
We can lame him out but honestly I feel this could be 5-5. If he blocks your db2, he can "punish" it with a 50/50 into over 50% and corner carry. Use ankhs in zoning here a lot to stop him from vibrating from fullscreen. On the brightside, Flash doesn't have the normals to compete with F2's range, lacks a good wakeup and isn't threatening from fullscreen in the slightest. MB Orb will keep him locked down giving you time for ankhs or even a healing orb if you want.

Grodd: 6-4
MB Orbs all day, everyday and stand inside it so he can't do his Harambe leap on you. If he activates trait and gets the projectile immunity off, pushblock him when you get the chance, respect the range of Mind Control, and abuse MB Roll if you see him go airborne.

Green Arrow: 6-4
Lame him out. He can't outzone us because of trait and the fact he has to load arrows. He is also another another character that can't compete with F2 range and gets locked down by MB Orb.

Green Lantern: 5-5
We win the zoning war, but he can win trades or react to orbs with his MB battery blast. His B1 out ranges our F2 so playing in his footsie range is extremely dangerous. Waking up against his setups is impossible as well since our inputs will be reversed. Blocking a db2 means we have to respect the B1. If you can keep him fullscreen, this one isn't too bad.

Harley: 6-4
Gunshots may seem annoying but as long you duck and check her with your own projectile its fine, and that includes her air gun. Although she can't compete with F2's range, you have to be extremely careful if she blocks a db2 since her ia j2 can actually sometimes punish it or be very ambiguous.

Joker: 7-3
He gets zoned out hard. Even if he goes for an armored Crowbar run, we break the armor with our MB'd projectiles and his jump arc makes it hard for him to get over orbs. Abuse MB B3 as your anti air since his J3 hitbox is insane and respect his d2 range as it is very deceiving.

Poison Ivy: 5-5
This matchup is all about who gets the first touch. If Ivy gets it, she sets up trait, and locks you down, and if Fate gets it, he can stop Ivy from putting up her Bark skin which negates chip damage. In terms of damage from zoning we win, but up close we lose. If she goes for MB F3, we can react with a MB B3. Remember she has no real wakeup either so abusing F3 on knockdown is very strong should you corner her.

Red Hood: 3-7
BAD! VERY BAD! His B3 lets him do everything Catwoman's does and he has aeriel projectiles. If he blocks ANYTHING from fullscreen, he can dive in with DF3 and we can't stop him. He is also one of the few characters in the game that can always punish db2 outside of trait so getting cornered is death. Playing Footsies with him too is like death since his b2 has greater range than F2. MB F3 or B3 can be parried or easily broken. He will always have bar from trait and we can't punish his overhead option, making any blockstring from him 8-10% chip damage.

Robin: 6-4
He has no projectiles but has extreme range. Keep him out and this is easy. He can use trait to teleport past orbs so be ready punish or check him. Waking up on him is not the best idea since he can stay out of range and punish it.

Scarecrow: 5-5
We can lame him out but as soon as he gets in its over. His F1 has crazy range and low profiles our projectiles. Staying in footsie range is a bad idea since he can easily become +6 with Mb Fear Blast. Abuse MB Roll to prevent yourself from being cornered, lock him down with MB orb, and don't let him get a life lead. If you drop below 10% and Scarecrow has trait, the match is over.

Supergirl: 5-5
Very similar to Harley in the fact that her lasers will be annoying. That said, block and duck them and then check her with a projectile. We win the trade and chip war, especially with trait. React to the teleport and punish it with max damage so she has to come to you. Avoid being with her B12 range since it outspaces our F2. Throwing, F3, and pressuring on wakeup is recommended here since she has poor wakeup attacks.

Superman: 3-7
The worst matchup by far. He can full combo punish db2 outside of trait with f23, abuse air lasers on us, his damage makes it impossible for us to come back and his zoning damage makes it so keep away is useless. You can try to MB roll on reaction to the air lasers but if your read was wrong, hold this 50%+ into corner carry. You can't even backdash on wakeup because the 3 after F23 punishes you for it. I won't be surprised if this ends up as an 2-8.

Swampthing: 7-3
This poor character. His jump makes it so he can't jump over orbs, hell we can punish him for jumping on reaction with a projectile. He can't really stop the abuse of F2xxdb2 and his wakeup is poor.

Wonder Woman: 5-5
She can parry our projectiles and check us with shields on the ground or in the air at just outside midscreen. Keeping her locked down with MB orbs is the way to go here. Respect her wakeup and punish it according unless its a MB shield bash. In that case, just walk back or make a read on her doing a b2 and punish it with a MB F3. Remember to duck her bf1 if she starts doing it at the end of strings and full combo punish the gap of 223 so she is not always +12 on you.

EVERYTHING IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE IN THE FUTURE SINCE THIS IS JUST PERSONAL THOUGHTS AND EXPERIENCES.

@Pig Of The Hut
@OmGxBdON
Your thoughts?
Which Bane were you playing because there is no way that is 7-3
 

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
As of today I have come up with my own matchup chart after grinding against the entire cast. Players I faced were Zyphox, Destroyer, Kandarr, King Tiza, Eldriken, and more.

Aquaman: 4-6
He outchips us outside of trait, can react to orb calls with a db2, and using db2 in this matchup means we eat trident rushes.

Atrocitus: 5-5
Probably one of the most weirdest matchups ever. We have to watch out for the Bloodnado and immediately Dex-Starr when he comes in with F223. If you keep him fullscreen, its fine because it won't matter if Fate trades a projectile with the bBoodnado.

Bane: 7-3
Bane really can't do anything here. MB roll gets you outside of the corner when he starts to corner you, and not only do we break armor on the rage charge with our projectile, we are actually able to punish it with F2u3 and send him fullscreen again.

Batman: 4-6
Although this matchup is winnable it is very hard. Batman is one of the few characters whose crouching hitbox ducks all our fireballs outside of midscreen so this gives him time to get his trait out and rush us down. MB orb is key in this matchup as it allows you to walk back and zone him out. Also, don't try to anti air him with b2, use j1. Lastly, pushblock him if he has bats out and MB roll out of the corner with an orb to cover yourself.

Black Adam 4-6
We actually do win the zoning war but if he blocks ANYTHING, he can check us with black magic and quickly get a life lead. MB divekick is a serious problem as he can punish whiffed projectiles. One touch from him also means that we can't sit back and zone him so we have to go in. Trading with Black Magic is in his favor and if he blocks a db2, he can check us with F12. However, we can punish him for doing so with a d1xxdb2. It is extremely important to have trait when you engage up close so your db2 actually becomes a launcher.

Black Canary 6-4
She lacks good range to compete with F2 and as long as you respect lvl 3 trait she can't really get in. If she touches you once though, then it could be game over. Push blocking her and knowing stage interactbles that she can use to get in are very import here.

Blue Beetle: 5-5
I feel like this one could change but he floods the screen with projectiles very fast. This matchup is literally all about abusing chip damage from trait. Also, BB does have ariel mobility so if he starts going for air shots on you, block and check him with your own. At no time should BB use Blade Stance here.

Brainiac 6-4:
Brainiac does not have much to deal with our fullscreen game. The best way to go about this matchup is to stand inside MB Orb so he can't approach from the air. If he starts becoming too predictable with mobility, you can punish him with a j1 for taking to the skies. But yeah, standing inside a MB Orb shuts Brainiac down.

Captain Cold 6-4:
Literally zone him out and don't even worry about trades once you activate trait. Respect the MB ice wall and watch for MB rolls and this match is very easy.

Catwoman 4-6
Where to begin? Her crouching hitbox and B3 goes under everything, we can't anti air her and her damage is crazy. We also have to be aware of MB catdash. That said, your best bet winning this is to abuse MB Orb and keep her locked down. If you have trait up with ankhs, punish MB catdash with a throw since she her hitbox makes 1,1 whiff. If she whiffs a B3 and you can't whiff punish it, consider either calling an ankh or an orb.

Cheetah 4-6
Very similar to Catwoman as zoning her seems impossible. Standing inside of MB orbs is a great way to shut her down from advancing on you. Predator pounce lets her low profile all of our zoning options and gives her an ambiguous fullscreen jump in. If she has trait out and touches you, clash immediately. Again, MB roll out of the corner as you approach it.

Cyborg 6-4
Zoning war, we outchip and win all trades. Very boring matchup. If he tries to grapple in, J1 will take care of him or you can jump stand inside MB orbs. If he tries to MB B3 or F3, F2xxdb2 breaks it.

Darkseid: 4-6
He zones us out super hard, out damages us, and we can't trade with him at all. Oh yeah, he also has 50/50s. Minion creates serious mindgames and stops us from advancing. MB F3 on his wakeup is useless since it gets armor broken and blocking it lets him be plus.

Deadshot: 3-7
Honestly don't even bother playing this one. You can't trade, you can't dash, you basically don't even get to play the game. If you are lucky to corner him and try to MB F3 his wakeup, sucks for you because your F3 gets armor broken by his MB knee. Trust me, he will always have bar.

Doctor Fate: 5-5
PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW, "PIERCING LIGHT OF ADAM ROTH," "VENGEANCE OF HORUS!!!"

FireStorm: 6-4
We win the trades, especially in trait. He doesn't have anything that can compete with F2's range. The only thing you need to be careful of is walking back since molten trap can catch you. You can easily abuse MB F3 on his wakeup too.

Flash: 6-4
We can lame him out but honestly I feel this could be 5-5. If he blocks your db2, he can "punish" it with a 50/50 into over 50% and corner carry. Use ankhs in zoning here a lot to stop him from vibrating from fullscreen. On the brightside, Flash doesn't have the normals to compete with F2's range, lacks a good wakeup and isn't threatening from fullscreen in the slightest. MB Orb will keep him locked down giving you time for ankhs or even a healing orb if you want.

Grodd: 6-4
MB Orbs all day, everyday and stand inside it so he can't do his Harambe leap on you. If he activates trait and gets the projectile immunity off, pushblock him when you get the chance, respect the range of Mind Control, and abuse MB Roll if you see him go airborne.

Green Arrow: 6-4
Lame him out. He can't outzone us because of trait and the fact he has to load arrows. He is also another another character that can't compete with F2 range and gets locked down by MB Orb.

Green Lantern: 5-5
We win the zoning war, but he can win trades or react to orbs with his MB battery blast. His B1 out ranges our F2 so playing in his footsie range is extremely dangerous. Waking up against his setups is impossible as well since our inputs will be reversed. Blocking a db2 means we have to respect the B1. If you can keep him fullscreen, this one isn't too bad.

Harley: 6-4
Gunshots may seem annoying but as long you duck and check her with your own projectile its fine, and that includes her air gun. Although she can't compete with F2's range, you have to be extremely careful if she blocks a db2 since her ia j2 can actually sometimes punish it or be very ambiguous.

Joker: 7-3
He gets zoned out hard. Even if he goes for an armored Crowbar run, we break the armor with our MB'd projectiles and his jump arc makes it hard for him to get over orbs. Abuse MB B3 as your anti air since his J3 hitbox is insane and respect his d2 range as it is very deceiving.

Poison Ivy: 5-5
This matchup is all about who gets the first touch. If Ivy gets it, she sets up trait, and locks you down, and if Fate gets it, he can stop Ivy from putting up her Bark skin which negates chip damage. In terms of damage from zoning we win, but up close we lose. If she goes for MB F3, we can react with a MB B3. Remember she has no real wakeup either so abusing F3 on knockdown is very strong should you corner her.

Red Hood: 3-7
BAD! VERY BAD! His B3 lets him do everything Catwoman's does and he has aeriel projectiles. If he blocks ANYTHING from fullscreen, he can dive in with DF3 and we can't stop him. He is also one of the few characters in the game that can always punish db2 outside of trait so getting cornered is death. Playing Footsies with him too is like death since his b2 has greater range than F2. MB F3 or B3 can be parried or easily broken. He will always have bar from trait and we can't punish his overhead option, making any blockstring from him 8-10% chip damage.

Robin: 6-4
He has no projectiles but has extreme range. Keep him out and this is easy. He can use trait to teleport past orbs so be ready punish or check him. Waking up on him is not the best idea since he can stay out of range and punish it.

Scarecrow: 5-5
We can lame him out but as soon as he gets in its over. His F1 has crazy range and low profiles our projectiles. Staying in footsie range is a bad idea since he can easily become +6 with Mb Fear Blast. Abuse MB Roll to prevent yourself from being cornered, lock him down with MB orb, and don't let him get a life lead. If you drop below 10% and Scarecrow has trait, the match is over.

Supergirl: 5-5
Very similar to Harley in the fact that her lasers will be annoying. That said, block and duck them and then check her with a projectile. We win the trade and chip war, especially with trait. React to the teleport and punish it with max damage so she has to come to you. Avoid being with her B12 range since it outspaces our F2. Throwing, F3, and pressuring on wakeup is recommended here since she has poor wakeup attacks.

Superman: 3-7
The worst matchup by far. He can full combo punish db2 outside of trait with f23, abuse air lasers on us, his damage makes it impossible for us to come back and his zoning damage makes it so keep away is useless. You can try to MB roll on reaction to the air lasers but if your read was wrong, hold this 50%+ into corner carry. You can't even backdash on wakeup because the 3 after F23 punishes you for it. I won't be surprised if this ends up as an 2-8.

Swampthing: 7-3
This poor character. His jump makes it so he can't jump over orbs, hell we can punish him for jumping on reaction with a projectile. He can't really stop the abuse of F2xxdb2 and his wakeup is poor.

Wonder Woman: 5-5
She can parry our projectiles and check us with shields on the ground or in the air at just outside midscreen. Keeping her locked down with MB orbs is the way to go here. Respect her wakeup and punish it according unless its a MB shield bash. In that case, just walk back or make a read on her doing a b2 and punish it with a MB F3. Remember to duck her bf1 if she starts doing it at the end of strings and full combo punish the gap of 223 so she is not always +12 on you.

EVERYTHING IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE IN THE FUTURE SINCE THIS IS JUST PERSONAL THOUGHTS AND EXPERIENCES.

@Pig Of The Hut
@OmGxBdON
Your thoughts?
Glad to see you think Fate has his share of winning matchups. I agree that Superman feels like an extremely uphill battle because you can't make him deal with grounded zoning for 1 second. Deadshot feels unwinnable because 1 of his moves (bf1) beats everyone of our moves from full screen.

@Pig Of The Hut says that Robin punishes glyph push with dp, so it sounds like that MU is actually in Robins favor.

Also I was beginning to think catwoman is his most disparaging MU. Safe full screen combo catdash seems to be the easiest answer to being full screeb ever. And from midrange you can never even do a f2 because catwoman j2 is easily the most insane jump in nrs has ever created

Darkseid matchup also feel terrible but it's more of a product of Darkseid being busted
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Which Bane were you playing because there is no way that is 7-3
What makes you think otherwise? The character can't get in and as soon as he corners me, I MB roll back to midscreen. If he is in debuff, the chip damage becomes absurd and he literally can't charge. I can react to his own MB roll with a d1xxdb2 and knock him away. The only problem is if he knocks you down because he bullies fate on knockdown.
 

NHDR

Noob
Awesome write-up, Darksyde. I like when people post specific information as opposed to just numbers.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
As of today I have come up with my own matchup chart after grinding against the entire cast. Players I faced were Zyphox, Destroyer, Kandarr, King Tiza, Eldriken, and more.

Aquaman: 4-6
He outchips us outside of trait, can react to orb calls with a db2, and using db2 in this matchup means we eat trident rushes.

Atrocitus: 5-5
Probably one of the most weirdest matchups ever. We have to watch out for the Bloodnado and immediately Dex-Starr when he comes in with F223. If you keep him fullscreen, its fine because it won't matter if Fate trades a projectile with the bBoodnado.

Bane: 7-3
Bane really can't do anything here. MB roll gets you outside of the corner when he starts to corner you, and not only do we break armor on the rage charge with our projectile, we are actually able to punish it with F2u3 and send him fullscreen again.

Batman: 4-6
Although this matchup is winnable it is very hard. Batman is one of the few characters whose crouching hitbox ducks all our fireballs outside of midscreen so this gives him time to get his trait out and rush us down. MB orb is key in this matchup as it allows you to walk back and zone him out. Also, don't try to anti air him with b2, use j1. Lastly, pushblock him if he has bats out and MB roll out of the corner with an orb to cover yourself.

Black Adam 4-6
We actually do win the zoning war but if he blocks ANYTHING, he can check us with black magic and quickly get a life lead. MB divekick is a serious problem as he can punish whiffed projectiles. One touch from him also means that we can't sit back and zone him so we have to go in. Trading with Black Magic is in his favor and if he blocks a db2, he can check us with F12. However, we can punish him for doing so with a d1xxdb2. It is extremely important to have trait when you engage up close so your db2 actually becomes a launcher.

Black Canary 6-4
She lacks good range to compete with F2 and as long as you respect lvl 3 trait she can't really get in. If she touches you once though, then it could be game over. Push blocking her and knowing stage interactbles that she can use to get in are very import here.

Blue Beetle: 5-5
I feel like this one could change but he floods the screen with projectiles very fast. This matchup is literally all about abusing chip damage from trait. Also, BB does have ariel mobility so if he starts going for air shots on you, block and check him with your own. At no time should BB use Blade Stance here.

Brainiac 6-4:
Brainiac does not have much to deal with our fullscreen game. The best way to go about this matchup is to stand inside MB Orb so he can't approach from the air. If he starts becoming too predictable with mobility, you can punish him with a j1 for taking to the skies. But yeah, standing inside a MB Orb shuts Brainiac down.

Captain Cold 6-4:
Literally zone him out and don't even worry about trades once you activate trait. Respect the MB ice wall and watch for MB rolls and this match is very easy.

Catwoman 4-6
Where to begin? Her crouching hitbox and B3 goes under everything, we can't anti air her and her damage is crazy. We also have to be aware of MB catdash. That said, your best bet winning this is to abuse MB Orb and keep her locked down. If you have trait up with ankhs, punish MB catdash with a throw since she her hitbox makes 1,1 whiff. If she whiffs a B3 and you can't whiff punish it, consider either calling an ankh or an orb.

Cheetah 4-6
Very similar to Catwoman as zoning her seems impossible. Standing inside of MB orbs is a great way to shut her down from advancing on you. Predator pounce lets her low profile all of our zoning options and gives her an ambiguous fullscreen jump in. If she has trait out and touches you, clash immediately. Again, MB roll out of the corner as you approach it.

Cyborg 6-4
Zoning war, we outchip and win all trades. Very boring matchup. If he tries to grapple in, J1 will take care of him or you can jump stand inside MB orbs. If he tries to MB B3 or F3, F2xxdb2 breaks it.

Darkseid: 4-6
He zones us out super hard, out damages us, and we can't trade with him at all. Oh yeah, he also has 50/50s. Minion creates serious mindgames and stops us from advancing. MB F3 on his wakeup is useless since it gets armor broken and blocking it lets him be plus.

Deadshot: 3-7
Honestly don't even bother playing this one. You can't trade, you can't dash, you basically don't even get to play the game. If you are lucky to corner him and try to MB F3 his wakeup, sucks for you because your F3 gets armor broken by his MB knee. Trust me, he will always have bar.

Doctor Fate: 5-5
PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW, "PIERCING LIGHT OF ADAM ROTH," "VENGEANCE OF HORUS!!!"

FireStorm: 6-4
We win the trades, especially in trait. He doesn't have anything that can compete with F2's range. The only thing you need to be careful of is walking back since molten trap can catch you. You can easily abuse MB F3 on his wakeup too.

Flash: 6-4
We can lame him out but honestly I feel this could be 5-5. If he blocks your db2, he can "punish" it with a 50/50 into over 50% and corner carry. Use ankhs in zoning here a lot to stop him from vibrating from fullscreen. On the brightside, Flash doesn't have the normals to compete with F2's range, lacks a good wakeup and isn't threatening from fullscreen in the slightest. MB Orb will keep him locked down giving you time for ankhs or even a healing orb if you want.

Grodd: 6-4
MB Orbs all day, everyday and stand inside it so he can't do his Harambe leap on you. If he activates trait and gets the projectile immunity off, pushblock him when you get the chance, respect the range of Mind Control, and abuse MB Roll if you see him go airborne.

Green Arrow: 6-4
Lame him out. He can't outzone us because of trait and the fact he has to load arrows. He is also another another character that can't compete with F2 range and gets locked down by MB Orb.

Green Lantern: 5-5
We win the zoning war, but he can win trades or react to orbs with his MB battery blast. His B1 out ranges our F2 so playing in his footsie range is extremely dangerous. Waking up against his setups is impossible as well since our inputs will be reversed. Blocking a db2 means we have to respect the B1. If you can keep him fullscreen, this one isn't too bad.

Harley: 6-4
Gunshots may seem annoying but as long you duck and check her with your own projectile its fine, and that includes her air gun. Although she can't compete with F2's range, you have to be extremely careful if she blocks a db2 since her ia j2 can actually sometimes punish it or be very ambiguous.

Joker: 7-3
He gets zoned out hard. Even if he goes for an armored Crowbar run, we break the armor with our MB'd projectiles and his jump arc makes it hard for him to get over orbs. Abuse MB B3 as your anti air since his J3 hitbox is insane and respect his d2 range as it is very deceiving.

Poison Ivy: 5-5
This matchup is all about who gets the first touch. If Ivy gets it, she sets up trait, and locks you down, and if Fate gets it, he can stop Ivy from putting up her Bark skin which negates chip damage. In terms of damage from zoning we win, but up close we lose. If she goes for MB F3, we can react with a MB B3. Remember she has no real wakeup either so abusing F3 on knockdown is very strong should you corner her.

Red Hood: 3-7
BAD! VERY BAD! His B3 lets him do everything Catwoman's does and he has aeriel projectiles. If he blocks ANYTHING from fullscreen, he can dive in with DF3 and we can't stop him. He is also one of the few characters in the game that can always punish db2 outside of trait so getting cornered is death. Playing Footsies with him too is like death since his b2 has greater range than F2. MB F3 or B3 can be parried or easily broken. He will always have bar from trait and we can't punish his overhead option, making any blockstring from him 8-10% chip damage.

Robin: 6-4
He has no projectiles but has extreme range. Keep him out and this is easy. He can use trait to teleport past orbs so be ready punish or check him. Waking up on him is not the best idea since he can stay out of range and punish it.

Scarecrow: 5-5
We can lame him out but as soon as he gets in its over. His F1 has crazy range and low profiles our projectiles. Staying in footsie range is a bad idea since he can easily become +6 with Mb Fear Blast. Abuse MB Roll to prevent yourself from being cornered, lock him down with MB orb, and don't let him get a life lead. If you drop below 10% and Scarecrow has trait, the match is over.

Supergirl: 5-5
Very similar to Harley in the fact that her lasers will be annoying. That said, block and duck them and then check her with a projectile. We win the trade and chip war, especially with trait. React to the teleport and punish it with max damage so she has to come to you. Avoid being with her B12 range since it outspaces our F2. Throwing, F3, and pressuring on wakeup is recommended here since she has poor wakeup attacks.

Superman: 3-7
The worst matchup by far. He can full combo punish db2 outside of trait with f23, abuse air lasers on us, his damage makes it impossible for us to come back and his zoning damage makes it so keep away is useless. You can try to MB roll on reaction to the air lasers but if your read was wrong, hold this 50%+ into corner carry. You can't even backdash on wakeup because the 3 after F23 punishes you for it. I won't be surprised if this ends up as an 2-8.

Swampthing: 7-3
This poor character. His jump makes it so he can't jump over orbs, hell we can punish him for jumping on reaction with a projectile. He can't really stop the abuse of F2xxdb2 and his wakeup is poor.

Wonder Woman: 5-5
She can parry our projectiles and check us with shields on the ground or in the air at just outside midscreen. Keeping her locked down with MB orbs is the way to go here. Respect her wakeup and punish it according unless its a MB shield bash. In that case, just walk back or make a read on her doing a b2 and punish it with a MB F3. Remember to duck her bf1 if she starts doing it at the end of strings and full combo punish the gap of 223 so she is not always +12 on you.

EVERYTHING IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE IN THE FUTURE SINCE THIS IS JUST PERSONAL THOUGHTS AND EXPERIENCES.

@Pig Of The Hut
@OmGxBdON
Your thoughts?
My current list

Superman 3-7

Supergirl 5-5

Poison ivy 6-4

Deadshot 3-7

Flash 6-4

Joker 6-4

Catwoman 4-6

Cheetah 4-6

Brainiac 6-4

Darkseid 3-7

Aquaman 4-6

Harley 6-4

Atrocitus 4-6

Robin 5-5

Black Adam 3-7

Blue beetle 6-4

Gl 5-5

Grodd NA

Cold 7-3

Scarecrow 4-6 (whiteboi pnut confirmed )

Bane 6-4

Batman 5-5

Arrow 6-4

Firestorm 5-5

Cyborg 6-4

Ww 6-4

Swamp 7-3

Canary 6-4

Red hood 4-6


This character sucks and only should be a utility
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Oh cool more people agree that the Deadshot matchup is aids, perhaps a certain zoning master who will remain nameless roasting the ever loving fuck out of me for asking why he mentioned Fate in a list of Deadshot counters will jump your guys's dick and call you scrubs too.

You lose the zoning battle and get face fucked up close lol, trying to the whole game to not zone and use that godlike Fate rushdown. Loooool

I agree that Superman is lolzville too, really highlights Fate's poor air control. I agree with Pig's list except maybe Batman as a possible 4-6.

I probably am coming off like a psycho but I don't actually think this character is pure trash, just a really polarizing one that will certainly require a second character.
 

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
Oh cool more people agree that the Deadshot matchup is aids, perhaps a certain zoning master who will remain nameless roasting the ever loving fuck out of me for asking why he mentioned Fate in a list of Deadshot counters will jump your guys's dick and call you scrubs too.

You lose the zoning battle and get face fucked up close lol, trying to the whole game to not zone and use that godlike Fate rushdown. Loooool

I agree that Superman is lolzville too, really highlights Fate's poor air control. I agree with Pig's list except maybe Batman as a possible 4-6.

I probably am coming off like a psycho but I don't actually think this character is pure trash, just a really polarizing one that will certainly require a second character.
You couldn't be any more correct imo.
 

Wetdoba

All too easy...
What makes you think otherwise? The character can't get in and as soon as he corners me, I MB roll back to midscreen. If he is in debuff, the chip damage becomes absurd and he literally can't charge. I can react to his own MB roll with a d1xxdb2 and knock him away. The only problem is if he knocks you down because he bullies fate on knockdown.
Bane can get in without charge, his walk speed is quite good now. Even then level 3 charge and F2 cancels are extremely good against Fates projectiles and debuff state is not really a big deal because hes not going to be opened up by Fate into damage ever, just take some chip and meterbuild at worst.

Youre only going to react to roll if its a random yolo one in which case Banes already lost. He can get a safe roll on reaction to orbs and a safe dash against anhk summons if Fate is not in trait. Roll for Fate is also not a wake up option so if youre doing it in the corner to get out its in the nuetral as you are first being backed into the corner in which case jump back body splash can catch it.

Bane can also blow up cancelling into push with reversal armor any time and since push counts as a projectile he wont even do any damage with it when Bane is at level 3 which gives Bane huge magic pixel potential even on Fates wake up.

Fate does have nice stuff like traited ahnks to get him out of command grabs but 7-3 to me means lopsided and it definitely isnt lopsided. People are really underestimating Bane's tool set in this game (or are unfamiliar it with)
 
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I seriously don't think Superman is a 7-3. I believe it's a 5-5 maybe more so a 6-4. The problem is because he's one of the few characters that don't allow you to play the way Fate was designed. That mu has to approached in a very honest way from the Fate player. Ankh pressure and whiff punishing f23 are an absolute must. Also if he tries to keep the life lead with air lasers then check him with b1d3u3. Landing thst while having all 3 ankhs will allow you a free set up. Jumping back on air lasers is another must so that you dont take unnecessary chip and USE HIS BREATH OF LIFE! AM I the only Fate doing so? It allows Fate to stay even or ahead of his opponent in life. It seems like nobody is using all of his tools.
 

Jowabunga

Woooooooooooooo!
I seriously don't think Superman is a 7-3. I believe it's a 5-5 maybe more so a 6-4. The problem is because he's one of the few characters that don't allow you to play the way Fate was designed. That mu has to approached in a very honest way from the Fate player. Ankh pressure and whiff punishing f23 are an absolute must. Also if he tries to keep the life lead with air lasers then check him with b1d3u3. Landing thst while having all 3 ankhs will allow you a free set up. Jumping back on air lasers is another must so that you dont take unnecessary chip and USE HIS BREATH OF LIFE! AM I the only Fate doing so? It allows Fate to stay even or ahead of his opponent in life. It seems like nobody is using all of his tools.
This right here is why the Aquaman matchup is such a pain in the ass: the constant threat of Tentacle global pressure makes it dangerous to use any tool that's not absolutely necessary. The benefit/cost ratio of throwing out a Breath of Life but taking a MB tentacle/spear for 20-25% (or more if they can combo off the Tentacle) just isn't worth it most of the time.
 
This right here is why the Aquaman matchup is such a pain in the ass: the constant threat of Tentacle global pressure makes it dangerous to use any tool that's not absolutely necessary. The benefit/cost ratio of throwing out a Breath of Life but taking a MB tentacle/spear for 20-25% (or more if they can combo off the Tentacle) just isn't worth it most of the time.
True but look at it this way, once you get the life lead Aquaman can't afford to sit bad and trade...he has to come in at some point. That's why you must stagger your zoning and play astrong neutral. Everything can't be balls to wallswith Fates tool kit, you have to play patient and smart in certain mus. Slowly get your ankhs out as well as a BOL to keep the life lead and compel Him to come in. Every blocked from the deep equals a free ankh summon. Once you have all 3 send them out and that will allow you to safely get out a BOL and regenerate any chip you've taken to keep the life lead. Trust when I say it's a more stressful mu for the Aquaman player as long as you play fundamentally smart.