Question Do You Honestly Think Nightwing Is Underrated?

[Shaazzyam]

'No options in Escrima' haha, so he does have options? Just not in escrima stance? That's where people get confused and think you're downplaying, because you said he has "no options" where it seems he does.
Most of the time every NW I've played tends to sit in staff anyway which is where more of his plus frames moves come in. Your followup doesn't HAVE to involve a mixup, you can just do another blockstring into staff/more plus frames/potentially a mixup if that's what you want or a throw. Soooo... no options eh?

Ok but that doesn't mean you have no options. Even chip is still damage. If people are just supposed to 'block high' against him to win then why/how do Nightwings manage to open people up? He must not be that predictable... Or are people just randomly not blocking? Can he not open the opponent up? Does he have no options?
Or do NWs just suck and LOTF is the best?

Uh huh... "no options" isn't downplaying, especially when blockstrings that leave you plus count as an option

If you would read between the lines and stop taking things so literally, you would understand. It's not that he literally has no options. I'm saying that +frames don't mean anything if his mixups after are weak. Cyborg has plus frames too, but that doesn't mean I give a shit cause what's he really gonna open me up with?

I said in escrima you block high. Staff is low, react to overheads.

 

[FFAxHades]

If you would read between the lines and stop taking things so literally, you would understand. It's not that he literally has no options. I'm saying that +frames don't mean much cause his mixups after are weak. Cyborg has plus frames too, but that doesn't mean I give a shit cause what's he really gonna open me up with?

I said in escrima you block high. Staff is low, react to overheads.

But 1f2, I cant react to that and it makes me wanna cry...

 

[BigMilk]

The NW community concluded NW struggles vs zoning characters and looses vs them otherwise it is a 5-5. So according to the NW community "zoners" across the board give NW trouble. This means his imbalance is constant across several tiers and is not restricted to a single tier like the top tier. His imbalance is directly related to zoning in general.

One of NW's problems is obtaining the life lead when he is at a life deficit and avoiding interactables. Using your logic NW is balanced if my opponent does not play keep away when they have the life lead or throw interactables.

We see things differently.

I think you are missing the point here. I agree with most of the MU related things you are saying. We both started getting off a little but all I'm trying to get you to understand is that you are referring to his faults and weaknesses as imbalance. Just because a character has weakness doesn't mean he is imbalanced. A trend with most FGs are that the worse the balance of a characters, the better the character is. Example: MK9 Kabal, MMH, SSSB Metaknight, 3rd Strike Chun Li, ST Akuma etc

 

[Fromundaman]

NW players don't represent in tourney as much. The character's flaws heavily outweigh his positives. He's solid mid-tier.

The two nightwing players who have had a week-long (Or maybe more? IDK?) feud on who's better have both been to majors and failed to place.

It either means A) the players aren't good enough, B) the character isn't viable, or C) a little of both.

I think you are missing the point here. I agree with most of the MU related things you are saying. We both started getting off a little but all I'm trying to get you to understand is that you are referring to his faults and weaknesses as imbalance. Just because a character has weakness doesn't mean he is imbalanced. A trend with most FGs are that the worse the balance of a characters, the better the character is. Example: MK9 Kabal, MMH, SSSB Metaknight, 3rd Strike Chun Li, ST Akuma etc

Counterpoint for at least one of those:

Ganondorf in Brawl is just as unbalanced as Metaknight, but so so SO much worse...


Also MMH is a bad example considering he is absolutely a balanced character in terms of being able to do everything fairly well. He may even be THE most balanced in that regard since he is a zoner/rushdown/anti-zoner/trap character with 50/50s.
In fact the more "balanced" a character is in Injustice, the better they seem to do. The only real exceptions to this would be characters like Zod and Bane.

I can't comment on any of the others though.

 

[Shaazzyam]

The two nightwing players who have had a week-long (Or maybe more? IDK?) feud on who's better have both been to majors and failed to place.

It either means A) the players aren't good enough, B) the character isn't viable, or C) a little of both.

Uhhhh

No comment

 

[Fromundaman]

Uhhhh

No comment

Considering that is a comment, what else could you attribute a failure to place to if not either getting outplayed and/or having terrible matchups?
This isn't just aimed at any one community or player either; if any player fails to place what OTHER than those (or the very rare controller pause issues) can it be?


To put it back into context of this thread though, multiple NWs have attended majors. Furthest he's gotten is top 16 once if I remember correctly?

 

[Amplified$hotz]

The two nightwing players who have had a week-long (Or maybe more? IDK?) feud on who's better have both been to majors and failed to place.

It either means A) the players aren't good enough, B) the character isn't viable, or C) a little of both.



Counterpoint for at least one of those:

Ganondorf in Brawl is just as unbalanced as Metaknight, but so so SO much worse...


Also MMH is a bad example considering he is absolutely a balanced character in terms of being able to do everything fairly well. He may even be THE most balanced in that regard since he is a zoner/rushdown/anti-zoner/trap character with 50/50s.
In fact the more "balanced" a character is in Injustice, the better they seem to do. The only real exceptions to this would be characters like Zod and Bane.

I can't comment on any of the others though.

Don't make them pull out the lordofthefly vs KDZ match. I feel it comin.

 

[Shaazzyam]

Considering that is a comment, what else could you attribute a failure to place to if not either getting outplayed and/or having terrible matchups?
This isn't just aimed at any one community or player either; if any player fails to place what OTHER than those (or the very rare controller pause issues) can it be?


To put it back into context of this thread though, multiple NWs have attended majors. Furthest he's gotten is top 16 once if I remember correctly?

Yeah, I get you. I'm just not about to give my honest opinion on it

If we're talking all NW then LOTF made it the furthest with 9th.

 

[Yoaks]

This thread is giving me a headache.

 

[Fromundaman]

Yeah, I get you. I'm just not about to give my honest opinion on it

If we're talking all NW then LOTF made it the furthest with 9th.

Oh he made 9th? Nice. I knew it was top 16 but I didn't realize he'd gotten that close.

Also I personally don't believe in penalizing people for using secondaries, but let's not pull out Sajam using NW one set in top 8

 

[Sajam]

Oh he made 9th? Nice. I knew it was top 16 but I didn't realize he'd gotten that close.

Also I personally don't believe in penalizing people for using secondaries, but let's not pull out Sajam using NW one set in top 8

I played NW in pools twice, MMH in pools 3 times, and NW for my 3 matches out of pools.

 

[4x4lo8o]

I played NW in pools twice, MMH in pools 3 times, and NW for my 3 matches out of pools.

Nah bro, you're not even a real NW player. You can't be in this thread

 

[Sajam]

Nah bro, you're not even a real NW player. You can't be in this thread

And you don't play Lobo you big fraud.

 

[TarkatanDentist]

Zod, Ares, Batman, FLASH, Aquaman, Catwoman, Joker, Killer Frost, Lex, Lobo, Raven, Shazam, Grundy, Superman, WoWo (METERLESS!)

AND Zatanna. Not gonna lie, I was under the impression that 40-45% with one bar was fairly standard...

At any rate, I think that Nightwing is better than Raven, but a little worse than Killer Frost. So that would put him somewhere between #12 and #18... a fairly big margin of error, I'll admit.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

Actually I view NW as a shitty Superman and shitty Aquaman variants. They are Escrima and Staff respectively. If you like Escrima, play Supes. If you like Staff, play Aquamang

wurt?

 

[HeroesNZ]

A. FUZZYING it, I don't know why that sounds impossible to you anyway considering you have to move your blocking in 3 frames for Doomsdays earth shake, you're just moving your blocks in one frame for BGs vortex. It's very difficult but not impossible...
B. Before you say it no I'm not 'ducking you' or whatever, I said I'd post a video when I could, not on the day a week ago. I have tech I want to video and post too but I can't so I haven't.
C. She struggles more than Nightwing in neutral...and I've never said cartwheel is irrelevant I've said all the options are punishable. That's not the same as NWs options after plus frames being 'irrelevant'.

'No options in Escrima' haha, so he does have options? Just not in escrima stance? That's where people get confused and think you're downplaying, because you said he has "no options" where it seems he does.
Most of the time every NW I've played tends to sit in staff anyway which is where more of his plus frames moves come in. Your followup doesn't HAVE to involve a mixup, you can just do another blockstring into staff/more plus frames/potentially a mixup if that's what you want or a throw. Soooo... no options eh?

Ok but that doesn't mean you have no options. Even chip is still damage. If people are just supposed to 'block high' against him to win then why/how do Nightwings manage to open people up? He must not be that predictable... Or are people just randomly not blocking? Can he not open the opponent up? Does he have no options?
Or do NWs just suck and LOTF is the best?

Uh huh... "no options" isn't downplaying, especially when blockstrings that leave you plus count as an option

I think you're confused about the definition of fuzzy-guard because it doesn't mean what you think it means.
Btw, you might want to read back what I said in the Joker thread because I said post a video of you correctly blocking her vortex consistently and you complied, meaning that you can supposedly block her vortex consistently. I've only ever said a few of NW's plus frames are irrelevant such as B112 and MB Wingding, don't put words into my mouth. And how is you stating facts about Batgirl any different to us stating facts about NW? The hypocrisy is real...

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

...

Been there...said that since day 1...STILL getting blown up.

Anyone heard of the 80-20 rule? 20% of the people do 100% of the work. The other 80% do 0% of the work.

I'll say it like I said it day 1. 80% of NW mains don't have the mentality to make top 8.

Some of it may be skill, it's honestly more of a mentality.

NW is what he is:
A tournament viable character. Put up or shut up NW community. Remember 80%.

 

[Braindead]

...

Ben there...said that since day 1...STILL getting blown up.

Anyone heard of the 80-20 rule? 20% of the people do 100% of the work. The other 80% do 0% of the work.

I'll say it like I said it day 1. 80% of NW mains don't have the mentality to make top 8.

Some of it may be skill, it's honestly more of a mentality.

NW is what he is:
A tournament viable character. Put up or shut up NW community. Remember 80%.

Pfft what do you know?

You're just an online scrub who has never went to any tournament. You'd go out 0-2 against noobs every time if you go to a tournament. Let alone if you face players like KDZ or Forever King.

 

[TakeAChance]

If no one knows the matchup it should be prime opportunity for Nightwing players to place top 8.

I thought Slips was going to do it?

Or perhaps Pig is going to pig him up now and this thread/recent threads are a way to setup his "overwhelming" victory. lol

Fly may have been able to do it if he didn't retire after his top 16 placing, the fact that he is still brought up is a testament to Atlanta and co. He really could have done better if he played more/went to tournaments.

People need to stop forgetting about Sajam tho...
Most of the work done with Nightwing early on was by him, Murk, myself, and others.

Maybe if we didn't bury people for ever losing more players would be driven to play and compete...Just my 2 cents.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I'm going to try and go to more tournaments if my job allows me to.

But apparently @Sajam thinks nobody will care

 

[Youphemism]

I think you're confused about the definition of fuzzy-guard because it doesn't mean what you think it means.
Btw, you might want to read back what I said in the Joker thread because I said post a video of you correctly blocking her vortex consistently and you complied, meaning that you can supposedly block her vortex consistently. I've only ever said a few of NW's plus frames are irrelevant such as B112 and MB Wingding, don't put words into my mouth. And how is you stating facts about Batgirl any different to us stating facts about NW? The hypocrisy is real...

Fuzzy-guard, taken ROUGHLY from the definitions thread is quickly blocking one way then the other. Check the thread yourself.
I did say I'd post a video FUZZY GUARDING it consistently (which yes involves blocking I know) but I did not say I'd post a video that day. So what's the problem?
Because these "facts" you state about Nightwing are wrong. Saying he has no options when he does. If you mean something say literally what you mean, if he has no options in Escrima then say that because what am I supposed to think "he has no options" means?
I'm talking about the NWs in general that they say his plus frames are irrelevant (or something almost completely similar to those words).

 

[TakeAChance]

Fuzzy-guard, taken ROUGHLY from the definitions thread is quickly blocking one way then the other. Check the thread yourself.
I did say I'd post a video FUZZY GUARDING it consistently (which yes involves blocking I know) but I did not say I'd post a video that day. So what's the problem?
Because these "facts" you state about Nightwing are wrong. Saying he has no options when he does. If you mean something say literally what you mean, if he has no options in Escrima then say that because what am I supposed to think "he has no options" means?
I'm talking about the NWs in general that they say his plus frames are irrelevant (or something almost completely similar to those words).

I think you are both talking too general. Be specific. In what situation in Escrima does NW not have options?

I think there is a lot of group think in this thread, and not enough rational thought. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Youphemism]

If you would read between the lines and stop taking things so literally, you would understand. It's not that he literally has no options. I'm saying that +frames don't mean anything if his mixups after are weak. Cyborg has plus frames too, but that doesn't mean I give a shit cause what's he really gonna open me up with?

I said in escrima you block high. Staff is low, react to overheads.

Don't say something if you don't mean it then. What else is someone going to think when you say "he has no options"? I'm supposed to guess you mean only in Escrima?
Yeah, right, Cyborg does have plus frames. He uses them for frametraps and lots of chip until the opponent either backdashes or the opponent tries to open him up at which point they might get comboed. But with Nightwing it's different, he's like plus 18. The opponent CANNOT hit a button or they'll most likely get hit with something.
That's how you guys are coming across to everyone else: "what's NW going to open you up with?". And Nightwing isn't Cyborg...

 

[Youphemism]

I think you are both talking too general. Be specific. In what situation in Escrima does NW not have options?

I think there is a lot of group think in this thread, and not enough rational thought. Just my 2 cents.

That's what I want to know too

I'm trying to stop the generalisition and am asking for specificity lol

 

[Big Pampering]

Yeah, I get you. I'm just not about to give my honest opinion on it

If we're talking all NW then LOTF made it the furthest with 9th.

Didn't some nightwing player actually get top 8 at SCR? Why do people keep ignoring this.