(Discussion) The Unprecedented Stated of MK11

[SwiftEagle]

I just hope they never allow custom variations into ranked. Once in a while I'll forget to toggle competitive mode in casual matches, and my god, those matches are terrible and unfair.

 

[dungeonsector]

I just hope they never allow custom variations into ranked. Once in a while I'll forget to toggle competitive mode in casual matches, and my god, those matches are terrible and unfair.

Personally, I completely agree with going full customs for ranked online. If we are going to get customs tournament legal, I think that we should ditch the idea of a "tournament variation" all together.

So I completely agree with this, my only question is how? How can the community get this plan in action? I really want to see this as soon as possible, so what should we as a community do to get NRS to allow customs in tournaments?
I do have some ideas though, I think it would be amazing if Destroyer hosted a customs tournament with a good prize. If enough people watch, I think this idea can be put into action.

 

[SwiftEagle]

Personally, I completely agree with going full customs for ranked online. If we are going to get customs tournament legal, I think that we should ditch the idea of a "tournament variation" all together.

So I completely agree with this, my only question is how? How can the community get this plan in action? I really want to see this as soon as possible, so what should we as a community do to get NRS to allow customs in tournaments?
I do have some ideas though, I think it would be amazing if Destroyer hosted a customs tournament with a good prize. If enough people watch, I think this idea can be put into action.

I'm against giving MKX characters more mix ups than they already have.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

That’s a pretty bold statement coming from a guy who hangs out at theme parks dressed as grape ape and giving nrs detractors wet willies.

@PLAYING TO WIN take the whiny nub comment how ever you want, get a lawyer for the wet willy though.

I his comment has me so lost yet interested.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

I'm against giving MKX characters more mix ups than they already have.

Can you elaborate? In terms of mkx characters there is t one in the game. The closest thing is geras with oki off throws. No true 50/50 that launch armored launchers.

This game is the farthest thing from mkx I have seen since.

 

[fr stack]

Im always hearing about twitter tech but never actually see the tech. Can we make a thread dedicated to twitter tech or some shit or is that verboten considering people are charging people money for frame datas these days

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Im always hearing about twitter tech but never actually see the tech. Can we make a thread dedicated to twitter tech or some shit or is that verboten considering people are charging people money for frame datas these days

honestly all I ever see on twitter is drama and shit I don't care to read. maybe one thing here and there but twitter and discord are horrible for logging tech and accessing.

 

[wolfy617]

Everyone complained how MKX was a shit show because it was all 50/50s and "marvel" combos. Now people are saying combo system is too straight forward... a fighting game does not need all of these different combo routes to be "deep". Look at SF3 for instance, 90% of the meta in that game is one move hit confirms into super, but it's still considered one of the best FGs of all time because the footsies, parry system, and overall gameplay was on point. Despite this simple combo system it's also considered one of the hardest games to be competitively good at of all time.

I think MK11 is more of a game of correct decision making and using the tools you do have in creative ways to throw your opponent off rather than unga bunga 50/50 into 50% combo.

 

[SwiftEagle]

Can you elaborate? In terms of mkx characters there is t one in the game. The closest thing is geras with oki off throws. No true 50/50 that launch armored launchers.

This game is the farthest thing from mkx I have seen since.

Sub Zero, Erron, NightWolf, Sonya, Jacqui, and Jax.

 

[HellblazerHawkman]

Popping in late, but something I do want to set straight is balance doesn't have to mean boring. Look at UNIST, the Top 8 had the 2 worst characters straight represented by 3 players. Not the I2 definition where they could main a character in some match ups and sub a top tier, you can just play Enkidu and make a stacked Top 8

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I think MK11 is more of a game of correct decision making and using the tools you do have in creative ways

Bingo. Exactly

 

[ExpectFlames]

Sub Zero, Erron, NightWolf, Sonya, Jacqui, and Jax.

There strong yeah but their set play isnt relative to the 50/50 vortex fest of mkx.. which btw I love.

 

[xKMMx]

The game is dry and boring to me at this point. I do enjoy it for short bursts but I do tend to agree that the lack of creativity that is possible in this game is why I find it boring. I used to get annoyed with how people play characters like Jade almost identical to the last player I fought using that character until I realized there is just such little depth to these characters that a lot of them didn't have a choice.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

The game is dry and boring to me at this point. I do enjoy it for short bursts but I do tend to agree that the lack of creativity that is possible in this game is why I find it boring. I used to get annoyed with how people play characters like Jade almost identical to the last player I fought using that character until I realized there is just such little depth to these characters that a lot of them didn't have a choice.

The amount of people talking this way, just in this thread alone, is alarming. It was not my intent to bash the game. Just bring some discussion as to why people feel like you do.

 

[JTC]

Erron black now and erron black from day 1 arent any different. So much tech everday gaiz.

Lmao

 

[OnlineSkunk]

I think NRS should make the moves that were left behind for custom variations Universal and / or merge them with the two variations we already have, make two tournament legal variations that don't take the slot system into account or change the slot system altogether. They could even balance the game by giving least used variations the better moves, that would give us more complete characters Reo and others which I 100% agree with would rather have, it would add more depth, fun and longevity to game.

 

[TaserFace007]

This was the eighth top selling game in August, so it doesn't seem to be dead or dying anytime soon.

I really don't like the lack of customization available, though. There are so many cool moves in the game but in order to use them, you have to sit for five minutes in a Kasual match loading screen waiting for someone to accept you. It would be nice to add them to the main modes like Kombat League in order to make the match ups more diverse and interesting as opposed to just having a stock play style against whomever the opponent picks because there's a lack of options for them to do anything new or different. If the tournament people who care about all of the stuff relevant to that want to have their own little box off in a corner, that's fine, but there's no need to hamper the game for the rest of us in order to cater to them because the OP is correct about how stale it makes everything.

 

[KH_Seraph]

Been a part of the community since the MK9 days and I think the scene around MK11 is fine. The game is pretty good, pretty fun; I just don't like the way Liu Kang is designed at a fundamental level. Pretty much my only gripe with the game right now. I liked him much more in MK9 and MKX (MK2 and 3 before that). He's not swaggy anymore.

MK11 is by far the best designed, most polished MK game yet to date, balance wise IMO.

 

[SwiftEagle]

There strong yeah but their set play isnt relative to the 50/50 vortex fest of mkx.. which btw I love.

I just want Kano to have a mid, okay? Please understand where this (righteous) frustration is coming from. I'm everything I hate when I use Kano due to him not having a decent mid; a d1 masher and a jump spammer. He's literally the only guy in the game that relies on it to win.

 

[OnlineSkunk]

Everyone complained how MKX was a shit show because it was all 50/50s and "marvel" combos. Now people are saying combo system is too straight forward... a fighting game does not need all of these different combo routes to be "deep". Look at SF3 for instance, 90% of the meta in that game is one move hit confirms into super, but it's still considered one of the best FGs of all time because the footsies, parry system, and overall gameplay was on point. Despite this simple combo system it's also considered one of the hardest games to be competitively good at of all time.

I think MK11 is more of a game of correct decision making and using the tools you do have in creative ways to throw your opponent off rather than unga bunga 50/50 into 50% combo.

MK11 it's great, one of my favorite if not my favorite NRS game yet but I do believe players that are able to do 1 frame link, just frame link combos consistently deserves that extra 5% to 10% damage. A player that's better in neutral should never lose to a player that just have better execution, that's impossible and while I prefer balance with limited execution barrier than unbalanced with unlimited execution barrier, I believe balanced with unlimited execution barrier it's achievable and should be what every fighting game company strive for, multiple combo routes wasn't what made MKX unbalanced and I do not care to explain.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Been a part of the community since the MK9 days and I think the scene around MK11 is fine. The game is pretty good, pretty fun; I just don't like the way Liu Kang is designed at a fundamental level. Pretty much my only gripe with the game right now. I liked him much more in MK9 and MKX (MK2 and 3 before that). He's not swaggy anymore.

MK11 is by far the best designed, most polished MK game yet to date, balance wise IMO.

The competitive scene has been on fire so far, and the matches consistently are exciting.

It should be possible to make an argument for customs without downing the tournament circuit, which is actually posting the best numbers we've seen yet for an NRS game.

 

[xKMMx]

Been a part of the community since the MK9 days and I think the scene around MK11 is fine. The game is pretty good, pretty fun; I just don't like the way Liu Kang is designed at a fundamental level. Pretty much my only gripe with the game right now. I liked him much more in MK9 and MKX (MK2 and 3 before that). He's not swaggy anymore.

MK11 is by far the best designed, most polished MK game yet to date, balance wise IMO.

no one is in this game. Every one has literally has their 3 to 4 starters, one extender (2 if they are really lucky) and their one or tow enders.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Couple things:

1. In regards to customs and the 3rd variation, across this entire thread and in many others (and other websites), I've noticed literally one person bring up something that is glaring to me, and that was REO later on in the podcast.
   
   I keep seeing comments about the 3rd variation already being useless because of the current state of the remaining special moves, but it seems insane to me to assume that these variations will be 100% constructed using said moves without a single adjustment being made to them. REO makes this argument while talking about Erron Black already having the best theoretical loadout he can get, but then finally mentions that a variation with the bear trap might be cool if the trap also got buffs to it.
   m2dave makes a comment about the idea of moving to anything that doesn't use Shang Tsung's Ground Eruption, implying doing so makes a person stupid. While I understand his point I also think this is a very diminishing and short sighted attitude.
   
   So I find it a bit concerning that nobody is even considering this before throwing all of it in the trash. On the podcast the matter of time constraints came up, so on this note it seems even more obvious to me that the reason special moves got corralled into tournament approved variations is because they needed a way to funnel their balancing act for these moves moving forward.
   As much as I support customs being opened up to ranked and tournaments (because that was the whole point of designing the shit in the first place) I also wouldn't want to be stuck with balancing all of those custom moves at once.
   
   I have mentioned it in another thread somewhere, but doing a series of balance passes on the leftover specials is without question the first step to making a 3rd variation, and it is strongly implied they plan on making more. All of these are steps towards getting full customs in action. Meanwhile, we can still use them anyways because it turns out kasual mode won't actually make your hands melt off for wanting to try out things that look fun for your character.
   REO also makes a great point that these moves can give a person new interest in a character they otherwise don't care about. That's a big deal.
   
   
   
   
2. I haven't lurked here much, only really started posting a bit in the early days of INJ2, and have now tried to sink my teeth into discussions with MK11. I say this to illustrate that I'm unfamiliar with the board politics of this place, so I don't really know much about any of you, particularly @CrimsonShadow . However, I don't understand how someone like him can be so consistently disrespected even after being forced to lay out a list that reads as a mere portion of the good deeds he's done for everyone. I may be labeled as a shill after saying this, but I also don't understand the attitude towards his point of view; the posts of his that I have read are level headed and reasonable yet ad hominem and mob mentality is almost always returned immediately, and he still somehow has the patience to continue responding maturely and politely. This is the community badguy?
   
   I sincerely do not understand and would appreciate explanation from anyone.

 

[xKMMx]

I've said a couple times on this site how I feel the game is dry and doesn't really keep my interest for long periods of time , but I don't feel like its dead or dying. I feel like it probably will earlier than it should without the changes everyone is clamoring for.

I will give this game a lot of credit for pushing me to learn fundamentals though which I knew nothing about for the year and a half that I played MKX. To me that's something of a testament to the intended game design.

I have never really been part of a game from launch like this so to me this is all new territory. By the time I got MKX it was post final patch. It's interesting to see how polarizing this game has been though. I'm hoping this game keeps evolving in positive directions.

I really don't know enough to say whether or not custom variations being tourney legal would open it up to possibly being broken by certain character load outs exploiting balance gaps but if not I'd love to see it. When that debate first got going I was on the side of not opening those options up because I was still learning the basics of every match up and honestly the limitations on move sets made that easier. But now I am bored and feel like I know exactly what I'm going to see from each character before matches start.
In MKX you used to play one someone using a character and they could be amazing playing them one way and ten matches later play that same character and see something completely different stylistically and tech wise.

Mk11 you see so little diversity in the way characters are played that you can barely tell its someone different than the last and that kinda sucks.

 

[kcd117]

The amount of people talking this way, just in this thread alone, is alarming. It was not my intent to bash the game. Just bring some discussion as to why people feel like you do.

Personally I'm finding it boring lately bc it is extremely strike/throw oriented and 90% of the games are played the same way. The lack of Kustom is not helping it at all but the one thing I believe is responsible for this shallow meta we have now is dash canceling.

When you think about it, it simply enforces guesses that shouldn't be there at all. Instead of having to use different tools to check people and make use of your complete moveset a lot of situations become potato dash up mid or auto-shimmy / Dash up throw. Like for example whenever you are negative against Liu Kang from jump range he has no reason to use any other normal when he can simply dash up and cancel it in his throw or F4. Not to mention how great it would be to not have Sub-Zero, Cetrion and Geras canceling their teleport backdashes into normals and specials.

Jump ins being that stupid also contribute to this stuff. When in doubt, the best answer in every single scenario is to jump, and when you do so, it doesn't matter if you are playing against online bob or SonicFox... you know the odds of you getting anti-aired are in a 1 to 5 ratio at worst. And jump-ins guarantee you the same potato mixup.

The poking meta in this game is also caveman IQ tier. This is an example where making stuff universal would actually benefit the game A LOT. If every 6 frames poke was -7, every 7 frame poke was -6 and every 8 frame was -5, while all of the D4s ranged from -7 to -12 considering their range and speed we wouldn't have this poking galore. Playing against Erron or Jacqui with their scrubs wet dream -3 pokes is soooo fucking bad.

Imho, in the beta, we had a better and smarter fighting game, with way more variety (even with the fewer characters, Kustomization had me and my training partners playing characters in more unique ways) and it felt rewarding and extremely fun to play.

Edit: to the people saying this is the most balanced game to date, I agree. But the reason why is the wrong one. This game is not balanced bc characters have around the same amount of good, even and bad matchups, it is not balanced bc they can all handle different scenarios in unique ways or bc they are all very complete characters. It is balanced bc the name of the game is Strike/Throw and we have Liu Kang, then we have 9 more characters that are pretty obnoxious at it, 10 other that are really good at it, 4 that can hold their own playing it, and 3 that simply can't play.