Match-Up Discussion - Summoner Dink's Proposed Quan Chi Post-EVO changes

[Wigy]

6frame poke would make his 50/50s too strong no?

 

[ShotgunInsanity]

I would rather buff his backdash to give him a useful defensive option. Maybe reduce the recovery frames on the backdash?

Edit: But imo the character should stay the way he is.

 

[kivatt]

Man, instead of getting involved with this shit show, I am going to watch Steven Universe.

 

[Vilén]

I support this. Quan players shouldn't have to block.

Ever.

 

[Predannok]

3:23
http://testyourmight.com/threads/ando1184s-anti-top-tier-tech.54549/#post-1829071

50/50s on 50/50s my ass

a faster poke or a 1% damage non launching armored wakeup ,just something to have rather than eating 70% chip damage against lui kang int he corner or be stuck against wrestler jax or Kobo tanya (warlock wont help here).

 

[WhoIsYams]

The meter system justifies a faster poke imo. Safe pressure builds the bar to continue safe pressure, all while the chip damage racks up and they build the breaker to avoid the vortex if we slip out. I think a wake-up would be unfair because Quan has a ton of ways to eliminate wake-ups. Lemme get that 6f d1, -10 on block and 9 on hit

 

[Graye]

Couldn't agree with SEV more. I personally feel like weakness in defense is an important aspect of Quan's design, and that he should have to choose a specific variation to gain the tool he lacks.

I like Quan for both his strengths and his weaknesses, and I personally love the way NRS has designed him.

If there's one change I desire for Quan Chi, it's that sorcerer's purple spell have its start up increased to the same start up as his red spell. This would make it actually worth using, as you could land it after a trance and do a combo that takes your opponents meter.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

I think one of his low pokes should be a bit faster on startup, have done for a fair while.

It wouldn't put him over the edge in any way and prevents the block infinites that certain characters have that are only possible against Quan Chi. Having to pick Warlock just so you don't get hit by a block infinite is clearly not intentional.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

Just scrolling through the thread, and maybe... 3 fucking people read the OP?

Anyway, yeah, I completely agree @STB Shujinkydink

 

[Derptile]

A faster poke sounds okay.

A 6 frame poke? Lol no

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I agree with you that he is really good though what @STB Shujinkydink is askng for wont make him OP. Itll just give him a chance to get out of pressure. There should be no reason for a character to have absolutely no options when they are being attacked non stop.

So we make one of the strongest characters stronger just because it won't "quite make him OP"? He doesn't need to be ANY stronger, it's ok for characters to have SOME weaknesses, Quan Chi is amazing as is. Compared to about half the cast he's already "OP" just because he isn't Tempest Kung Lao tier yet doesn't mean we buff him till he's just about there

This character needs nothing, he does just fine as is

 

[Sage Leviathan]

TYM seems to believe that being subjected to block infinites is a justifiable way to balance a character.

 

[Derptile]

TYM seems to believe that being subjected to block infinites is a justifiable way to balance a character.

Which characters block infinite him?

 

[Graye]

Having to pick Warlock just so you don't get hit by a block infinite is clearly not intentional.

Respectfully disagree. Quan Chi, even in MK9, has had slow pokes and it seems to be a part of his design. I think what's cool about variations in this game is that for some characters, like Quan, they give you options to sacrifice some of your strengths to cover his weaknesses.

I think Summoner and Warlock are perfectly fine, and Sorcerer deserves the purple spell buff I mentioned

 

[Sage Leviathan]

Which characters block infinite him?

At the very least Liu Kang and Tanya.

In response, I expect some paraphrasing of "Meh, it's no big deal."

 

[Graye]

To even out Quan's great tool set, he has to have some weakness. If you don't want to have that weakness, you must sacrifice some of your very powerful tool set.

You guys are acting like quan chi the character can't do well against the mentioned characters. In the right variation he can.

Things like this are what NRS intended with the variation system. They wanted people using different variations for different match ups.

 

[Wetdoba]

I agree with you that he is really good though what @STB Shujinkydink is askng for wont make him OP. Itll just give him a chance to get out of pressure. There should be no reason for a character to have absolutely no options when they are being attacked non stop.

Sounds like everyone else when they have to hold bat mix up after bat mix up and even when they are able to block it they are left with Quan at plus double digits. God forbid Quan have to struggle in some match ups, join the fucking club, the "my character actually has bad match ups club"

 

[Vigilante24]

A faster poke? No no no no... a character like this deserves to be corner raped, especially summoner. Learn to play MKX, R2 exists for a reason.

 

[Derptile]

At the very least Liu Kang and Tanya.

In response, I expect some paraphrasing of "Meh, it's no big deal."

Liu Kang block infinites him if he has no meter with the FRDCs in the corner. But any character with no meter and no pokes below 8 frames gets block infinited by him. It'll probably be gone in a patch.

With FBRCs he doesn't block infinite him, but if Liu Kang starts with a bar and a half in the corner and you have no bar then say good bye to 50% of your health in chip. This is probably gonna stay in the game.

Mid-screen your best option is to take the 3 in F213 FBRC pressure because unlike scorpion who could read if the opponent will get hit and EX spear, Liu
at maximum can do a 8% special and your out of the pressure. You can backdash the F213 FBDC midscreen and punish if he's whiffing a string. Just telling what I know about the MU.

I don't think a character like Quan Cheese should get a 6 or 7 frame poke at all, his play style is for him to play his game and go ham. But at the same time no one should be able to block infinite anyone, so it's better to get rid of Liu's block infinite fbdc in the corner rather than make Quan Cheese stronger. Like Liu kang does not have a poke under 9 frames, all his wakeups can be low profiled and punished(outside of scrub fist), and he has a plethora of hitbox issues, but that's the price you play when you have a character that has amazing pressure and good zoning.

Also I forgot to mention this; variations, THEY ARE THERE FOR A REASON. Not to mention this character has 3 amazing variations.

 

[Johnny2d]

The character just got 5th at evo... Get on ketchups level mate.

And Dink got 17th... What place did you end up with?

 

[EMPR_MURK]

What is quans d1 on start up?...it should be 8 frames at the least. Lower thn 8 frames is pushing it. Its a reason why he doesn't have a 6 frame d1.

If quan gets a 6f d1 thn every character would need one imo.

Also liu kang has a 9f d1 so welcome to the club of bad pokes.

 

[EMPR_MURK]

Liu Kang block infinites him if he has no meter with the FRDCs in the corner. But any character with no meter and no pokes below 8 frames gets block infinited by him. It'll probably be gone in a patch.

With FBRCs he doesn't block infinite him, but if Liu Kang starts with a bar and a half in the corner and you have no bar then say good bye to 50% of your health in chip. This is probably gonna stay in the game.

Mid-screen your best option is to take the 3 in F213 FBRC pressure because unlike scorpion who could read if the opponent will get hit and EX spear, Liu
at maximum can do a 8% special and your out of the pressure. You can backdash the F213 FBDC midscreen and punish if he's whiffing a string. Just telling what I know about the MU.

I don't think a character like Quan Cheese should get a 6 or 7 frame poke at all, his play style is for him to play his game and go ham. But at the same time no one should be able to block infinite anyone, so it's better to get rid of Liu's block infinite fbdc in the corner rather than make Quan Cheese stronger. Like Liu kang does not have a poke under 9 frames, all his wakeups can be low profiled and punished(outside of scrub fist), and he has a plethora of hitbox issues, but that's the price you play when you have a character that has amazing pressure and good zoning.

Also I forgot to mention this; variations, THEY ARE THERE FOR A REASON. Not to mention this character has 3 amazing variations.

^this

 

[PND_Ketchup]

Respectfully disagree. Quan Chi, even in MK9, has had slow pokes and it seems to be a part of his design. I think what's cool about variations in this game is that for some characters, like Quan, they give you options to sacrifice some of your strengths to cover his weaknesses.

I think Summoner and Warlock are perfectly fine, and Sorcerer deserves the purple spell buff I mentioned

I see what you're getting at with the variations, but the reality is that Quan gets hit in infinites that only work on him. Or Pressure situations that are even harder to guess out of than MK9 Johnny Cage pressure.

Having to pick warlock and lose everything because the same staggered string giving you trouble in summoner/sorceror isn't exactly a good option. I'm fine defending with my own ability, but his complete lack of any defence options whatsoever, including a low poke is a serious problem. Even if you blocl the mixup, you're still screwed, it's never your turn to press a button because your pokes are too slow.

Not saying Quan needs buffs, he's the biggest double edged sword in the whole game. But lets not bring up MK9 Quan in design terms, because that character was garbage,

 

[PND_Ketchup]

Liu Kang block infinites him if he has no meter with the FRDCs in the corner. But any character with no meter and no pokes below 8 frames gets block infinited by him. It'll probably be gone in a patch.

With FBRCs he doesn't block infinite him, but if Liu Kang starts with a bar and a half in the corner and you have no bar then say good bye to 50% of your health in chip. This is probably gonna stay in the game.

Mid-screen your best option is to take the 3 in F213 FBRC pressure because unlike scorpion who could read if the opponent will get hit and EX spear, Liu
at maximum can do a 8% special and your out of the pressure. You can backdash the F213 FBDC midscreen and punish if he's whiffing a string. Just telling what I know about the MU.

I don't think a character like Quan Cheese should get a 6 or 7 frame poke at all, his play style is for him to play his game and go ham. But at the same time no one should be able to block infinite anyone, so it's better to get rid of Liu's block infinite fbdc in the corner rather than make Quan Cheese stronger. Like Liu kang does not have a poke under 9 frames, all his wakeups can be low profiled and punished(outside of scrub fist), and he has a plethora of hitbox issues, but that's the price you play when you have a character that has amazing pressure and good zoning.

Also I forgot to mention this; variations, THEY ARE THERE FOR A REASON. Not to mention this character has 3 amazing variations.

Warlock isn't amazing, it's just good.

Highly meter intensive for unsafe mixups. Unless you want to spend two bars on one mixup. His reversal can be chewed up by any rapid meaty string and is super unsafe on block. It's more of a counterpoke than a wakeup attack.

The Business Kick is pretty baller though.

 

[Derptile]

Warlock isn't amazing, it's just good.

Highly meter intensive for unsafe mixups. Unless you want to spend two bars on one mixup. His reversal can be chewed up by any rapid meaty string and is super unsafe on block. It's more of a counterpoke than a wakeup attack.

The Business Kick is pretty baller though.

For Warlock I could maybe see a point being made for EX Scoop faster so that it can be used more effectively on wakeup or some other buff to make Warlock better, but no universal changes should be given to him. His offense and setplay are ridiculously strong in his other variations that giving them buffs as well would be nonsensical and would go against the point of variations.