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Didn't they say this was a roster decided by fans?

SUPAHJD

Horror Guest Shill
I want one clarification: I am not a Milenna, Reptile, Sindel, fan. I don't relatively care about any of them: I got into Mortal Kombat through horror and guests and some childhood memories of sucking at the arcade cabinets.


All that said: I genuinely get why Milenna fans are upset and unlike the hot bandwagon, I'm not going to talk shit on them. So: you're telling me. To push this weird ass narrative you had to make D'Vorrah look good [She's actually a pretty fun henchman to watch in my opinion in MKX. They really made me want to root for someone to die. Which is good for a bad guy in these games as long as her death is satisifying.] you had her kill Baraka and Milenna. Alright, sure. Fair enough. So: then, out of no where, in the game that literally allows characters to come back from the past....you leave out one of the fan favorites who you could have done so much fun stuff with from a character perspective about finding out how her demise went.

I normally don't care too much about complaining about games. I also really want to clarify that. I genuinely think this game looks awesome. I'm not hurt at all by the inclusions or lack their off. However, you're totally full of shit with the decisions made here today.

I'm not saying I would be better at developing but I genuinely want to know what fans you were listening to when you made a claim saying that "This is a fan roster!" or whatever the hell was exactly said that I see quoted quite often. Now, if this all comes to be that they never even said it: I'll genuinely accept I was wrong and take my ball and go home. I have a problem when there's a giant lie being told for attention though. Over the small course of my time on these forums, the Reddit, the discord and in the Mortal Kombat community actually engaging, I've seen outcries since before the announcement for: Sindel, Milenna [after her demise], Rain, Stryker [I don't support this either since the game has how many army lads already but alright], and Shang Tsung. That's what I mainly see. And...ya didn't get a single one in.

Instead, the weird decision you made was to do something like include three Cages, two Briggs, creative new characters [which I actually love] and include Shang Tsung in as DLC. I think it'd be unrealistic to say I wanted all these characters in but I also feel like, it could have been completely done.

That said: rant about over. I'm still genuinely in support of this game and NRS has my favorite fighting game format. However, I think the blatant weird little middle fingers included to the community and Ed Boon's "trolling" [I think he's just being a dick in some occasions] is a bit exhausting. I already had some weird thoughts on this company when you included Red Hood and Starfire as DLC when you know damn good and well since the Injustice 1 fan polls they were top requested and should have been base roster.


I genuinely hope this thread ages horribly. But I doubt it.
 

SUPAHJD

Horror Guest Shill
You could have at least took the time to give a decent reply instead of downplaying a thread that took some time to make, lol.

I know it's hard to maybe acknowledge the fact that NRS kinda makes some dirty decisions but it's not like this is too far off basis. All I'm saying is: as a guy who about two years ago got really heavy into taking fighting games more seriously and following some of the speculation, NRS kinda does some dickheaded things.

I'm definitely more of a comic guy and Injustice 2 really told me a lot about how they go at roster deciding.
 

Blade4693

Praise The Sun!
I can live with Mileena not being in the game but giving her weapon and moves to a character that literally hates her rubs me the wrong way. With Mournful it made a sense since Kitana and Jade were BFFs, but Kitana has shown nothing but disdain for Mileena. Now she has adopted her signature weapon and some of her moves? What?

If I hated somebody, especially some f* up half breed monster clone of myself I sure as hell wouldn't want to be like him, use his weapons or adopt his fighting style. I legit was shaking my head no when I saw her using the sai. Kitana looks great in this game though im not a hater, I just don't like this one particular thing.

Maybe im being melodramatic idk lol it's whatever.
 

xenogorgeous

At last. The Gathering...
Premium Supporter
My viewpoint in some things regarding this subject :

  1. they created the kombat kids in order to be the natural replacement of the veterans, however, they put all together in the same game, taking chances of others characters in the franchise, to take part and evolve in the series
  2. they put effort in some new characters (Takeda, Kung Jin, Ferra/Torr), for next, make them out of the next game .... so I'm afraid that Cetrion and Geras end having the same fate, and so, turn into "one game only" character type
  3. they put other characters (Jade and Mileena) trademark special moves in a character (Kitana), that already have plenty of own moves and doesn't need to be used as some kinda of half-ass stupid homage of fan favorites absent in the game
  4. so, next, they invest producion time on creating a new variation system , that, for competitive level, serve no full purpose, wtf, so what ?
seriously, some decisions NRS and Ed Boon decide to take on MK11 direction, seems pretty bizarre weird crazy nonsense, I expected more from a profissional level point .... MK11 looks incredible and we all gonna love, but, some things they decided, just seem dumb pointless

:confused:
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
You could have at least took the time to give a decent reply instead of downplaying a thread that took some time to make, lol.

I know it's hard to maybe acknowledge the fact that NRS kinda makes some dirty decisions but it's not like this is too far off basis. All I'm saying is: as a guy who about two years ago got really heavy into taking fighting games more seriously and following some of the speculation, NRS kinda does some dickheaded things.

I'm definitely more of a comic guy and Injustice 2 really told me a lot about how they go at roster deciding.
You might have put a lot of effort into it champ but it just seems like you are mad that one character didn't make it in and saying NRS is full of shit because of it.
 

SUPAHJD

Horror Guest Shill
I can live with Mileena not being in the game but giving her weapon and moves to a character that literally hates her rubs me the wrong way. With Mournful it made a sense since Kitana and Jade were BFFs, but Kitana has shown nothing but disdain for Mileena. Now she has adopted her signature weapon and some of her moves? What?

If I hated somebody, especially some f* up half breed monster clone of myself I sure as hell wouldn't want to be like him, use his weapons or adopt his fighting style. I legit was shaking my head no when I saw her using the sai. Kitana looks great in this game though im not a hater, I just don't like this one particular thing.

Maybe im being melodramatic idk lol it's whatever.
I don't think you are. And people can call me petty all the want with this but I feel it was more designed to be a low blow than tribute to me.

Maybe the story will make sense of it. I highly doubt it. I just think it was one of those low blow moves that Boon does.

You know how badly people wanted her back. Lol. And here's what
Cacaw people wanted stryker cacaw?
I thought people were just trolling but apparently so.

My viewpoint in some things regarding this subject :

  1. they created the kombat kids in order to be the natural replacement of the veterans, however, they put all together in the same game, taking chances of others characters in the franchise, to take part and evolve in the series
  2. they put effort in some new characters (Takeda, Kung Jin, Ferra/Torr), for next, make them out of the next game .... so I'm afraid that Cetrion and Geras end having the same fate, and so, turn into "one game only" character type
  3. they put other characters (Jade and Mileena) trademark special moves in a character (Kitana), that already have plenty of own moves and don't need to be used as some kinda of half-ass stupid homage of fan favorites absent in the game
  4. so, next, they invest producion time on creating a new variation system , that, for competitive level, serve no full purpose, wtf, so what ?
  5. seriously, some decisions NRS and Ed Boon decide to take on MK11 direction, seems pretty bizarre weird crazy nonsense, I expected more from a profissional level point .... MK11 looks incredible and we all gonna love, but, some things they decided, just seems dumb pointless
:confused:
1. I feel the same way. Cassie Cage really does a good mix of Johnny and Sonya. Both could have sat it out. Johnny looks to be my main because of how fun he is but honestly, they both could have sat it out and really let Cassie take over a game instead of having three Cages.

2. Yeah, believe me. It doesn't make any sense. I could be off too, but I could have swore the reception to Takeda was pretty nice.

3. Agreed.

4. I mean, I don't think everything needs to be based on competitive nature type arguments but I do think when fighting games do things like that and say "Well, this won't be used for serious competition!" then...why...? I like the idea of all the different looks I can give a character but...yeah. It feels weird.

5. They're professional. But I also genuinely feel like NRS talks out of their ass sometimes and it gets really irritating.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Every time they say something casual/off the cuff you guys totally freak out. Like when they say they changed something due to feedback, what they mean is “We we’re probably going to change it anyway, after we were on the fence for a while, and we took into account 20% that some of you guys feel the same way..”. So they say “we listened to the fans” to keep it simple and make people feel good.

But people interpret this literally to mean “NRS sat around and just waited for some guys on the forums and Twitter to tell them exactly what to put in their game” which is not how it works.

The game isn’t going to be 100% fan-decided — it just plays a role. And every character someone hates will be somebody else’s favorite. It’s nothing to get so worked up over.
 
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SUPAHJD

Horror Guest Shill
You might have put a lot of effort into it champ but it just seems like you are mad that one character didn't make it in and saying NRS is full of shit because of it.
If double posting isn't allowed, my b.

But nah, it's not about that one character. It's knowing that: we pretty much just now have seen this entire roster. And for a roster that was said to be "DeCiDeD bY fANs" it really feels like Ed Boon just talks out of his ass sometimes. And I genuinely like NRS. I just think they really do talk out of their ass more often than not.

I already didn't appreciate when Injustice 1 had "fan favorite" DLC which he knew the fans loved, and not a single one was included in the following game. And people can bring up the lackluster comics as an excuse for that, but it's a really lackluster excuse to keep fan favorites out. The Red Hood and Starfire thing /really/ rubbed me the wrong way since there was no comic excuse for it, and the fact that they easily could have been base roster and included in the story for IJ2.

When the first thing I see in MK11 is a fan favorite as the first DLC, it's a bit of a "Ehhh. Okay. Here we go." I wouldn't be surprised if Rain is next. And no, while at least getting the character is nice and having a hype character is nice too: don't include the "fan favorite roster" in the DLC extra cash section of your game.
 

Blade4693

Praise The Sun!
  1. they created the kombat kids in order to be the natural replacement of the veterans
Which they clearly don't have the balls to go through with. I love NRS and MK but what is the point of introducing this next generation of characters if the older ones never retire? No I never expect Scorpion or Sub-Zero to go away but we can live without Johnny/Sonya/Jax in every game especailly when they literally have adult offspring who are competent fighters now. They have missed games before and the world didn't end.
 

SUPAHJD

Horror Guest Shill
Every time they say something casual/off the cuff you guys totally freak out. Like when they say they changed something due to feedback, what they mean is “We we’re probably going to change it anyway, after we were on the fence for a while, and we took into account 20% that some of you guys feel the same way..”. So they say “we listened to the fans” to keep it simple and make people feel good.

But people interpret this carefully to mean “NRS sat around and just waited for some guys on the forums and Twitter to tell them exactly what to put in their game” which is not how it works.

Nothing is going to be 100% fan-decided — it just plays a role. And every character someone hates will be somebody else’s favorite. It’s nothing to get so worked up over.
I'm sorry but this just doesn't sound like a fair excuse. Not even in the slightest bit.

They know their community and I know they see who is talked about the most frequently. Saying something around "this is a roster chosen by fans" and included things like three Cages, two Briggs, etc, things that people more often that I see in these different communities [not all of these people are the most reasonable] weren't for that to begin with. It rubs me the wrong way. I already brought up IJ2's Red Hood - Starfire thing, where NRS clearly understood since the game previously who the top requested were and continued to ignore a base roster spot and DLC them up anyway.

I think they're full of shit. I don't mind the company at all, but I feel like it would have been better left unsaid.
 

Pterodactyl

Jacqui main since Dead Alliance
They gave you Noob, Kabal, Jade, Baraka, Skarlet, Frost, Kitana, Liu, Lao, Jax, Johnny, Raiden, Sub, Scorp, Shao, Shang, Kano, and Sonya.

18/25 characters are MK1-MK9 classics that are undoubtedly fan favorites, yet people are sill whining that they didn’t put literally every fucking character in the game.

You replace any of those characters with any of the ones you listed and you’d still be making the same damn post with the opposite names.

If they put in those characters instead of the MKX bunch people would whine that they pulled a 3D era again. If they didn’t make any new characters and put three of those characters in instead, people would say it’s lame that they have a stagnant roster with nothing fresh added.
 
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pure.Wasted

'ello baby, did you miss me?
The "how could you not include character X, they're so popular!" argument is just such silly nonsense.

You realize that if the roster was always the top 25 most popular characters, the roster would always be the same, right? In every single game. Literally, the same 25 characters, over and over, because they're the most popular characters, cementing their popularity with every new game, with Shao Kahn as the villain, because he's the most popular villain.

Extremely obvious fact: popular characters have to sit out games to make room for less popular characters, if you ever want any variety in the roster. Sometimes that'll mean a character you personally like, or thinks deserves some spotlight, sits a game out. Tough titties. The game isn't just for you. Whatever character "replaced" Mileena, I promise you a lot of fans are very happy about their inclusion. MKX was an amazing game for Mileena and did more for her as a character than the previous 9 games combined, she'll live. Eventually.
 

Jhonnykiller45

Shirai Ryu
The roster was said to be "for the fans" not "by the fans". If the roster was made 'by' the fans it'd have 40+ characters in it.
Look, I get what you're saying but you're acting like the whole fan base is just Mileena or Rain or whoever else fans. The MK11 roster is truly jam-packed with fan favorites, especially those who weren't in the last game: Noob Saibot, Jade, Kabal, Baraka, Shao Kahn, etc. and those're the characters Boon and co keep referring to. And please, characters like Johnny Cage, Jax, and Cassie are very beloved too you know? Forum lurkers and Twitter users like to pretend otherwise but that just isn't true.
 

xenogorgeous

At last. The Gathering...
Premium Supporter
Which they clearly don't have the balls to go through with. I love NRS and MK but what is the point of introducing this next generation of characters if the older ones never retire? No I never expect Scorpion or Sub-Zero to go away but we can live without Johnny/Sonya/Jax in every game especailly when they literally have adult offspring who are competent fighters now. They have missed games before and the world didn't end.
exactly .... I think NRS has no balls to sit out these characters .... same stuff as Capcom had no courage to kill Chris Redfield in Resident Evil, and Marvel has no balls to kill Iron Man in MCU ;)
 

SUPAHJD

Horror Guest Shill
They gave you Noob, Kabal, Jade, Baraka, Skarlet, Frost, Kitana, Liu, Lao, Jax, Johnny, Raiden, Sub, Scorp, Shao, Shang, Kano, and Sonya.

18/25 characters are MK1-MK9 classics that are undoubtedly fan favorites, yet people are sill whining that they didn’t put literally every fucking character in the game.
The "how could you not include character X, they're so popular!" argument is just such silly nonsense.

You realize that if the roster was always the top 25 most popular characters, the roster would always be the same, right? In every single game. Literally, the same 25 characters, over and over, because they're the most popular characters, cementing their popularity with every new game, with Shao Kahn as the villain, because he's the most popular villain.

Extremely obvious fact: popular characters have to sit out games to make room for less popular characters, if you ever want any variety in the roster. Sometimes that'll mean a character you personally like sits a game out. Tough titties. The game isn't just for you. Whatever character "replaced" Mileena, I promise you a lot of fans are very happy about their inclusion.
And yet, I feel the point is heavily missed. I should have honestly also just said I feel the roster is weak in general. My biggest problem being the three Cages, and the Kombat Kids really not serving their purpose yet, but sure.

I shouldn't have to go over how easily looking up the top requested characters for this game is. And I'm not saying they can all make it: but I'm saying some can.

I'll give them Smoke. Because I know a ton of people were asking for Smoke and that's awesome. But there are tons of polls, one that has reached past 100,000 votes. A ton more than that. I know that makes up a small demographic of the game but the point I'm trying to get across is: using the word "fan decided roster" but leaving out some of these giant exclusions is weird. And how are any of you going to tell me

'WelL SoMeTimEs YoU nEeD To TakE a SeAt SO OtHeR cHaRAcTeRs Can CoMe In" When more than half of MKX's roster is still here! This isn't taking a seat! This isn't bold.

If you want to defend the roster and say you like it, fine. But acting like "NO THEY GOT THE FAN FAVORITES" when there's a ton of research through multiple sources that could lean to something different is bonkers. This is not a fan favorite roster.
 

Law Hero

I. Hear. A. Sound.
I definitely think "roster for the fans" was a big exaggeration on their part. MK9 had a roster for the fans. This one is pretty much a direct continuation of MKX with a few newbies. Although I love NRS and MK, anything they say during marketing season means nothing to me. It's all meant to get people hype for the game, and to preorder it, that includes any claims about the roster.

I personally don't think it's that great of a roster, especially given its size. I also still think the kombat kids are redundant, and should either replace their parents or get off the roster. Feels like they're getting a big second push because their reception in MKX wasn't good enough. Anyway, if you want to know what a fan roster looks like, look at the threads of people making their ideal rosters, and they always look absolutely nothing like what the final product is. As disappointing as it may be to some, NRS/WB are doing what they think will sell most, and there's not much that can be done about it.
 

Blade4693

Praise The Sun!
Extremely obvious fact: popular characters have to sit out games to make room for less popular characters,
Then why do we need Johnny/Jax/Sonya/Kano/Liu/Lao in every game now? I actually agree with your post but NRS doesn't seem to be taking this approach when these guys have all showed up three games in a row now. I don't think anyone stole Mileena's spot or think she deserves it over anybody else but like you said popular characters are going to have so sit out every once in a while, yet here we are with the usual suspects coming back again and again.

Disclaimer: I love the game and am happy with it for the most part, just kind of thinking out loud here for the sake of discussion :)
 

SUPAHJD

Horror Guest Shill
The roster was said to be "for the fans" not "by the fans". If the roster was made 'by' the fans it'd have 40+ characters in it.
Look, I get what you're saying but you're acting like the whole fan base is just Mileena or Rain or whoever else fans. The MK11 roster is truly jam-packed with fan favorites, especially those who weren't in the last game: Noob Saibot, Jade, Kabal, Baraka, Shao Kahn, etc. and those're the characters Boon and co keep referring to. And please, characters like Johnny Cage, Jax, and Cassie are very beloved too you know? Forum lurkers and Twitter users like to pretend otherwise but that just isn't true.
1. I guess I'm pure selfish because I don't find a roster of 28+ to be totally outlandish. 40+ for this game? Yeah. All things considered. But I don't find a number below 35 to be too crazy. That's just me going from other fighting games though.

I'm not trying to act like the entire roster is that but I'm trying to take statistics from most of the communities I'm in and the basic polls I see on a ton of sites.

Sindel. Nightwolf. Milenna. Rain. Smoke [Tada]. Shang Tsung. And I really don't see them in here.

I'll give them props still. Cause they got Skarlet and Jade. Which is hella nice. Same with Smoke. I just feel there were a ton of better ways they could have gone at this with the statements they made.

And I honestly feel like if Rain is announced as DLC next, it's just a really similar to IJ2 move.

Edit: And yeah. I'm sorry. The response saying "popular characters have to sit out to make room for others!" is just blatantly stupid when looking at this game's roster. Since...it's pretty safe outside of Milenna who I saw the biggest outcry that people wanted back.

They played it especially safe with Sonya and Jax. I'm biased to Johnny but even then, they had a really good blend of Johnny and Sonya through Cassie to the point where it's almost not as needed.

But to say "oh they needed to swap out characters" is a bit of a false statement. And honest to God, they really don't even need to do the swapping they do.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Hopefully we get Human Smoke and Nightwolf for DLC. As a Nightwolf fan but also as a Native, it sucks not seeing one of my favorite characters that’s been missing out since MK9.

That said, the roster is fantastic. There’s very few characters that aren’t in this game that are popular fan favorites. And there’s always DLC we can look forward to.
 

pure.Wasted

'ello baby, did you miss me?
But there are tons of polls, one that has reached past 100,000 votes. A ton more than that. I know that makes up a small demographic of the game
Apparently you don't, because you're relying on "popular wisdom" like this as the crux of your entire argument.

Hardcore online communities on TYM and r/MK DO NOT REPRESENT the MILLIONS of MK fans worldwide. Jax was consistently one of the most popular characters in MKX throughout its entire lifespan, but come here a month ago and you'd think he was some kind of fucking leper. You're in an echo chamber surrounded by other hardcore fans and you don't even realize it. The roster isn't just made for hardcore fans, it's made for ALL fans.

using the word "fan decided roster" but leaving out some of these giant exclusions is weird.
Name the perfect "roster for the fans." I want to hear what 25 characters you put on it.

I want to hear it, so I can tell you which popular fan favorite characters your roster is missing, and criticize all the ways in which your roster is actually shit.

There is no such thing as a perfect roster, get that idea out of your head.
 

Law Hero

I. Hear. A. Sound.
Then why do we need Johnny/Jax/Sonya/Kano/Liu/Lao in every game now? I actually agree with your post but NRS doesn't seem to be taking this approach when these guys have all showed up three games in a row now. I don't think anyone stole Mileena's spot or think she deserves it over anybody else but like you said popular characters are going to have so sit out every once in a while, yet here we are with the usual suspects coming back again and again.

Disclaimer: I love the game and am happy with it for the most part, just kind of thinking out loud here for the sake of discussion :)
I think different people have different ideas of what "roster for the fans" actually means. To some it might mean, "look at a top 10 poll, and put those guys on there." To others, it might mean adding heavily requested characters that often sit games out.

I know that for myself, when I hear "roster for the fans" it makes me think of lots of B-listers returning who sat the last game out. I think of Smoke, Rain, Nightwolf, Sindel, Fujin, Havik, etc. I also don't believe I'm the only one that thinks that, and I can understand people looking at the roster and wondering where all the promised characters are. I honestly didn't expect NRS to add a bunch lesser-known characters with followings, but I feel for those that did.