Strategy Deathstroke - Stages Breakdown

[Crathen]

Updating this with some Themyscira setups

Am i alone doin this?

 

[Mikman360]

Updating this with some Themyscira setups

Am i alone doin this?

Lol wow. Nice timing. I just asked you to make a video of this in the other topic. Thanks.

Right now I'm messing around with Watchtower setups.

 

[Crathen]

Lol wow. Nice timing. I just asked you to make a video of this in the other topic. Thanks.

Right now I'm messing around with Watchtower setups.

Yeah give a try at the forced standblock setup in the video , on watchtower and FoT you get full combos out of the grabs.

 

[Mikman360]

Yeah give a try at the forced standblock setup in the video , on watchtower and FoT you get full combos out of the grabs.

Fortress of Tolitude?
And from what I've noticed, comboing out of corner grabs is based on the juggle height at which you grabbed your opponent, so I don't think it's always possible to get a grab combo off of every hit, especially the raw ground ones. I can't seem to get a combo off of a raw corner grab myself, but if I do Ji3, 12 xx Interactable, I can.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

am i the only one that firmly believes that atlantis is not a good map for DS? i feel it helps other characters too much for it really to be a good stage for him, seeing as there are many stages i feel really give him an advantage over certain character types, as they don't benefit as much, even gadget characters since DS is the only real zoner that works as a gadget character as far as i know. better stages are strykers island, ferris, themyscira, watchtower, insurgency (luthor's lab) and hall of justice. those stages i feel he does really well and actually cripples a lot of characters, while atlantis seems to benefit characters that are kinda whack with interactables.

 

[Mikman360]

Atlantis for water jets. Water jets are god.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

Atlantis for water jets. Water jets are god.

yes but water in the corner can be used by anyone. power characters get the huge wave which is really hard to avoid. anyone with an airdash can easily nullify water jets. in levels like luthor's lab, acrobatic characters get that shitty dive kick off of the light while everybody else can throw it. the only thing that gadget characters get that acrobatic characters don't on that stage is the ability to blow up the 10 commandments.

 

[Crathen]

Fortress of Tolitude?
And from what I've noticed, comboing out of corner grabs is based on the juggle height at which you grabbed your opponent, so I don't think it's always possible to get a grab combo off of every hit, especially the raw ground ones. I can't seem to get a combo off of a raw corner grab myself, but if I do Ji3, 12 xx Interactable, I can.

Tolitude wins.

Slipped from my mind that he can't combo off grounded throws , meh i guess.

He can OTG after the Solitude one with d1 so it's good to keep in mind.

The one in Watchtower has too much pushback in order to OTG with anything useful ( Sword Flip actually OTG there , could be useful if you can close the round with it , very situational anyways )

 

[Crathen]

Water jets are not that great now honestly , MB them now costs 2 bars and anyone decent will MBDC through it full combo punishing you on recovery.

DS best stages are Ferris , Hall of Justice courtyard , Striker Island cells , Gotham City , Watchtower and Themyscira , there are some stages that are better than those ones in certain matchups where the other character benefits more of the interactables so Batcave lagoon and atlantis are good backups.

Fortress of Solitude gives many characters some fucked up setups.

 

[Mikman360]

They're pretty good for keepaway, although you are right, the MB cost did hurt them some.

IMO, stage tier list goes something like this:

1. Ferris
2. Hall of Justice (Outside)
3. Watchtower (Bridge)
4. Atlantis

The Watchtower left corner interactable OTGs. If you do 323 (crossunder), D1 xx Interactable, you get a TON of free extra damage.
Also, the background bounce on this stage is quite possibly the best one in the game. They are all slightly different in terms of size and juggle time, but this one is great, and DS is actually pretty good at sticking BG bounces in his combos. It also triples the damage of his quick overhead.

 

[Crathen]

Ferris is good when you're not getting outzoned , definately a great stage when fighting Lantern , Harley , Superman , Bane , Lex , Grundy , CW , Cyborg , Arrow , Hawkgirl , Joker , Lobo , Aquaman , NW , Shazam , WW and DD , only downside is that there's no BGB

Outside Hall of Justice is good versus power characters in general especially if they get outzoned.

Watchtower is when i want to play aggressive as the BGB area is very large and both corners have interactables to switch sides.

Stryker Island left corner is camping fest with the turret ( no MBDC here brah ) and MB Shotgun interactable , left side is a freezing bomb that switches sides , no BGB here tho.

Themyscira temple is good for midscreen keepaway with the lion heads and corners have escape routes , small BGB in the middle of the stage is nice.

Batcave is good vs characters that controls interactables like Zod , very bad power interactables here and the BGB in the lab is nice too.

Atlantis is a balanced keepaway / aggressive stage , BGB in the middle , bombing interactables near the corners and water jets are ok for keepaway. The pipe in the middle for mobility purposes is great to use when a good upclose character gets near you , creates good space.

Luthor Lab is decent vs gadget / acrobatic characters , not a bad stage at all as there are interactables everywhere , insurgency tho favours power characters.

The only stages to avoid are Arkham Asylum and Metropolis and that's against power characters , even then they are not bad bad stages , Deathstroke doesn't have big problems countering interactables in the neutral game , but power character stages give them the opportunity to OTG with interactables better not deal with that.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

i say his best stages are in no order

Stryker's Island Cell Block -I feel that this is the best stage for power characters because the turret in the left of the stage has soem ridiculous space control. a lot of characters don't really have a solid answer to it. IMO this is the only stage that makes DS vs Flash really not that bad. yard is good against gadget and acrobatic characters. the weight is an issue but you have the explosive barrels which really can come in handy.

Ferris - a few characters that can outzone will give you problems. most likely they are power characters so stryker's cell block is the way to go in that case.

i feel ike overall ferris and cell block are just about as good as each other, just depends on the matchup. i feel like the weight is really the only downside but now that it costs 2 bars to MB it i think its not the worst.

Themyscira - both the port and the temple are really good. the lion heads are awesome because they come out super fast and control space in an area that pretty much anyone can punish low guns in. it reaches to about what lantern's lift range is, so i like this map against him. the port has a lot of nonsense for you to play around with so thats not a bad option either. the thingy in the middle you can drop down on people and its really fast with a huge hitbox.

Watchtower - both areas on this level has cool shit in the corner to play around with. on the bridge there are awesome interactables that let you get out of the corner easily. the one on the right side can be blown up many times so the option of cross up F3 after a knockdown, plant bomb and jump away to full screen works extremely well. the jet engine on the left side is really good for getting out of corners and it has a pretty big hitbox. on the reactor, you ahve the laser on the right which goes full screen, really good for getting people to stop moving. the jet engine on the right hand gives you a crumple state and it can be used for a mixup, not the best but not terrible, upside is it comes out really fast. the little spaceship thingy belongs to deathstroke. he can easily shoot someone out of using it and can use it to dictate the spacing game very well

Insurgency Luthor's Lab - This one i particularly like against acrobatic characters. they get that shitty divekick off of the light that is only 0 on block and you can toss that thing full screen and interactable hitboxes exist. the same bomb in the corner setup with f3 can work with the brain lasers in the right corner. it is also available in the left corner but only once since the robot goes away after it explodes. the laser on the left side increases your corner game tremendously.

 

[Mikman360]

How exactly does Ferris favor power characters? The missiles suck for power characters (they lift and throw it), and the tools suck too (since they throw it, you can duck it at closer ranges).

The only thing they have better is the hanging missile in the beginning of the stage since they can slam it. However, for an airborne bombable interactable, I'm fairly convinced this is one of the best ones in the game. It hangs so low to the ground that the blast radius is very easy to use.

The turbine on the left hits mid for power characters, and high for non-power characters, but non-power characters get a full combo off of it.

Also, I used to like Stryker's Island (I still do somewhat), but power characters are actually pretty good here. They chuck the sentinel, the ice cell, the turret, and the gun drone at you, and they're all pretty fast. Not to mention, while the left corner is good, power characters can literally take it away from you by just using them themselves. MB shotgun can be avoided by jumping over the user and punishing them from the back (unlike water jets).

 

[TONY-T]

I definitely believe Atlantis is his best stage now, for multiple reasons. Not only does he have meter-burnable 18% water jets in both corners, but the stage has no transitions, which is actually an enormous defensive bonus. A lot of the stronger characters are able to get natural stage transitions in their combos because they incorporate b3's (Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Superman, etc). This means that on stages like Stryker's Island, that left corner may be great for DS, but he's actually incredibly vulnerable to massive transition damage.

Unfortunately, Deathstroke really has no way to initiate a transition except to catch someone with a naked b3 in the corner, which will rarely happen. This means that picking Atlantis or Ferris actually benefits him enormously because it takes away his opponents' transition advantage.

Also, those water jets send the opponent back to full screen, which can seriously frustrate a lot of players.

I agree 100%! Id also like to add the background bounce interactable mixup. Ferris aircraft doesn't have this. The mixup is much better now due to the background bounce kick having a bigger hitbox. b2~interactable, b1~interactable and d1~interactable. B1~interactable is way more consistent now.

The only downside to this stage for Deathstroke, imo is the waterpipe interactable. If your opponent times it correctly, they can use it to go over your gunshots and then punish you for it.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

How exactly does Ferris favor power characters?.

its not that it favors power characters, but the characters that tend to do well on that stage also seem to be power characters. like zod, black adam and sinestro for example. like off the log trap, zod and black adam can get a full combo. they both seem to do a decent job , nullifying interactales. zod has a trait, quick shot that can be meter burn delayed. black adam has lightning, jump over it and divekick for dumb damage. sinestro has the quick shot that can be meter burn delayed also and the boulder. all of these are things that
discourage interactables.

on the cell block, you have a ridiculous amount of space control with the turret that has an absurd hitbox and gives a hard knockdown for you to just be more lame and stay by the turret. also the fact that it is unblockable really replaces any need for his trait (which i already think is pretty bad). what do power characters get? they throw the turret and you can shoot them out of it. if they get in the yard the weight can be a dick but its also a good tool to get out of the corner with. the fact that MB interactables cost 2 bars now i think nerfed strykers island yard a lot for power characters.

maybe i worded things poorly, but a lot of thigns with stages you have to account the character type along with their moveset. thats how you i feel stage counterpicks should be though out if you are allowed to pick a stage. i personally think any game that stages matter they should 100% always be random, if you lose, you can elect for another random select. just like it is in pretty much every game that i can think of that stages matter in, only injustice doesnt have a true random, because you know what stage you're getting before the match starts so you already know if the stage will be a dick or not and you can choose yoru character accordingly (which i already do)

 

[Flawless Thomas]

Tolitude wins.

Slipped from my mind that he can't combo off grounded throws , meh i guess.

He can OTG after the Solitude one with d1 so it's good to keep in mind.

The one in Watchtower has too much pushback in order to OTG with anything useful ( Sword Flip actually OTG there , could be useful if you can close the round with it , very situational anyways )

You can OTG with 323 on Watchtower. I do either Jump in 3 cross up into grab or jump in 3 cross up - 3 cancel to grab then OTG with 323.

 

[Mikman360]

its not that it favors power characters, but the characters that tend to do well on that stage also seem to be power characters. like zod, black adam and sinestro for example. like off the log trap, zod and black adam can get a full combo. they both seem to do a decent job , nullifying interactales. zod has a trait, quick shot that can be meter burn delayed. black adam has lightning, jump over it and divekick for dumb damage. sinestro has the quick shot that can be meter burn delayed also and the boulder. all of these are things that
discourage interactables.

on the cell block, you have a ridiculous amount of space control with the turret that has an absurd hitbox and gives a hard knockdown for you to just be more lame and stay by the turret. also the fact that it is unblockable really replaces any need for his trait (which i already think is pretty bad). what do power characters get? they throw the turret and you can shoot them out of it. if they get in the yard the weight can be a dick but its also a good tool to get out of the corner with. the fact that MB interactables cost 2 bars now i think nerfed strykers island yard a lot for power characters.

maybe i worded things poorly, but a lot of thigns with stages you have to account the character type along with their moveset. thats how you i feel stage counterpicks should be though out if you are allowed to pick a stage. i personally think any game that stages matter they should 100% always be random, if you lose, you can elect for another random select. just like it is in pretty much every game that i can think of that stages matter in, only injustice doesnt have a true random, because you know what stage you're getting before the match starts so you already know if the stage will be a dick or not and you can choose yoru character accordingly (which i already do)

Against power characters that zone well, I like Atlantis. You can use the pipe to get in on them, but they cant do the same to you. Also, you can use the water in the corner multiple times, while they can only use it once.

But I think you underestimate how annoying it is to have things on Stryker's Island being thrown at you. That turret tracks REALLY well when thrown, and power characters slam drones onto your face pretty quickly. I've also been punished for MBing the shotgun in the corner before.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

Atlantis is definitely his best stage against characters who control interactables well. But I'm starting to think stages like Watchtower are better against characters like Grundy, Flash, Bane, etc, who have don't have teleports or traits that give them a monopoly on interactables. I think DS might have the best interactable control outside of teleporters and Zod.

 

[Mikman360]

The way I see it, no one controls air space like DS barring Zod with his trait active. There are after all, only 3 horizontal air projectiles in this game (DS, Cyborg, and Green Arrow). Green Arrow's is slow, and Cyborg's doesn't have as much missile speed, so DS has control of those flying drones like no other.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

Against power characters that zone well, I like Atlantis. You can use the pipe to get in on them, but they cant do the same to you. Also, you can use the water in the corner multiple times, while they can only use it once.

But I think you underestimate how annoying it is to have things on Stryker's Island being thrown at you. That turret tracks REALLY well when thrown, and power characters slam drones onto your face pretty quickly. I've also been punished for MBing the shotgun in the corner before.

i see the water jet argument that you can use it multiple times and they can only use it once is similar to the turret. you can use it multiple times while they can only use it once. however, their use of the water in atlantis is much better than yours. water jets have an extremely whack hitbox while theirs takes up the entire fucking screen minus a little bit at full screen. the pipe is really shitty IMO. its just asking to get hit because you can't come off of it with your own attack and it pretty much just leaves you vulnerable to get popped with a d2 or something. i honestly see if deathstroke gets to a turret there are a handful of characters that dont even have a chance of getting close to him. if hes on p1 side i feel like he is at advantage in almost every matchup.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

i see the water jet argument that you can use it multiple times and they can only use it once is similar to the turret. you can use it multiple times while they can only use it once. however, their use of the water in atlantis is much better than yours. water jets have an extremely whack hitbox while theirs takes up the entire fucking screen minus a little bit at full screen. the pipe is really shitty IMO. its just asking to get hit because you can't come off of it with your own attack and it pretty much just leaves you vulnerable to get popped with a d2 or something. i honestly see if deathstroke gets to a turret there are a handful of characters that dont even have a chance of getting close to him. if hes on p1 side i feel like he is at advantage in almost every matchup.

The hitbox on the water jet is still really good, and reaches as far as the wave. You can't jump it (except for maybe Hawkgirl), so it's just as effective. DS has a huge advantage in that his crossup j3 is around +10 on block. This means he can crossup an opponent in the corner and activate the pipe whether it's blocked or not. Once he's in the corner with the pipe, you can't safely approach him. He builds meter quickly enough to almost always be able to armor the pipe, and if he gets a knockdown from an aerial gunshot he can activate the pipe for an unblockable setup.

The other big benefit to Atlantis, though, is that there are no transitions. Sure you can camp the corner on Stryker pretty well, but you're also open to an armored b3, or one of the characters who incorporate b3's into their combos.

Finally, Atlantis has pipes on both sides, so you don't stand a chance of getting cornered with no interactables to help you defend yourself, unless a power character has already broken the glass.

 

[Mikman360]

i see the water jet argument that you can use it multiple times and they can only use it once is similar to the turret. you can use it multiple times while they can only use it once. however, their use of the water in atlantis is much better than yours. water jets have an extremely whack hitbox while theirs takes up the entire fucking screen minus a little bit at full screen. the pipe is really shitty IMO. its just asking to get hit because you can't come off of it with your own attack and it pretty much just leaves you vulnerable to get popped with a d2 or something. i honestly see if deathstroke gets to a turret there are a handful of characters that dont even have a chance of getting close to him. if hes on p1 side i feel like he is at advantage in almost every matchup.

Hm, you raise some valid points. Every time I see a power character break the fishtank though, I MB F3 and dash cancel it to get a full combo. I can't do that on Stryker's Island (with the turret that is).

 

[Mikman360]

Oh wait, I forgot to mention, power characters destroy the interactable on Stryker's Island, making it unavailable to BOTH characters afterwards. On Atlantis, you can still use the water jets even if a power character has smashed the glass.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

The hitbox on the water jet is still really good, and reaches as far as the wave. You can't jump it (except for maybe Hawkgirl), so it's just as effective. DS has a huge advantage in that his crossup j3 is around +10 on block. This means he can crossup an opponent in the corner and activate the pipe whether it's blocked or not. Once he's in the corner with the pipe, you can't safely approach him. He builds meter quickly enough to almost always be able to armor the pipe, and if he gets a knockdown from an aerial gunshot he can activate the pipe for an unblockable setup.

The other big benefit to Atlantis, though, is that there are no transitions. Sure you can camp the corner on Stryker pretty well, but you're also open to an armored b3, or one of the characters who incorporate b3's into their combos.

Finally, Atlantis has pipes on both sides, so you don't stand a chance of getting cornered with no interactables to help you defend yourself, unless a power character has already broken the glass.

any character with an airdash can blow up the water jet pretty free. any character that has an air special that keeps them in the air (DS air guns, cyborg high shot, lantern turbine) can dodge it pretty easy on reactin) j3 being arond +10 would matter if water jets didnt have 8 billion startup frames and MB interactables costing 2 bars. if you have decent reactions, you should be able to d1 him out of it (it seems like it has at least 20 startup frames). worst case scenario, they armor through it, take d1 damage, spend 2 bars and get like 20%. IMO thats the biggest reason why this stage isnt that great anymore. you can also argue that there being no transitions leaves out possibilities for unclashable damage. i could give a rat's ass if they spent 2 bars to take 20% and get a hard knockdown. if you are spending 2 bars, you should be getting AT LEAST close to double that. the way meter works in this game, you need to hold on to as much as you can for clash.

although atlantis has pipes on both sides, strykers on both areas has interactables that let you place a bomb and jump out of the corner on both sides. the ones on the cell block arent reusable but the ones in the yard are.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

Oh wait, I forgot to mention, power characters destroy the interactable on Stryker's Island, making it unavailable to BOTH characters afterwards. On Atlantis, you can still use the water jets even if a power character has smashed the glass.

yes but as deathstroke you can discourage them from throwing it because you can react to their jump and shoot them out of it. if they throw it to you after a hard knockdown you can always spin or flip since they have like 600 invuln frames as wakeups and you wont get clipped. you dont really have much to discourage them from using the water in atlantis outside of MB f3/b3 and if you're out of range for that, its a dick.