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Strategy Deathstroke Matchup Breakdowns, A Community Effort Week 1: Aquaman

Mikman360

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
Okay, so some basic things. I'm sure many of you already know this, but I'm posting stuff for the sheer listing of the cold hard facts.

DS can punish Aquaman's From the Deep full screen on block with Quick Fire
DS can duck dodge Trident Toss with Low Shots
DS can punish Trident Toss at HALF screen on block with Quick Fire (but who does this?)
DS can punish Trident Scoop on block with B1U2 AT CLOSE RANGES. For a more reliable punish, I recommmend B222 (for HKD) or 323 (for damage).
Note that all of this is null if he decides to activate trait.

Aquaman can punish Low Shots on block with a From the Deep at about 3/4s screen

I'm just posting the matchup specific punished btw. Everyone knows that Sword Flip can be full combo punished by anyone.

Now here's the real reason I think Aquaman has to stay on his toes in this match. DS bullies him pretty hard on HKD. Here's a little trick I'd like people to look into:

When you get a DS combo on Aquaman, end your combo with D1 xx Flip OR 2 xx Flip. After the Flip hits, do 1 dash, and do F3. This beats ALL of his wakeups (barring the super of course). If you try this in training mode, you can set the CPU to "Random" wakeups. It doesn't matter, this F3 will beat every wakeup they try to do, you don't even have to guess.

Of course, Aquaman can block it, but F3 is +10 on block, allowing you to do B1 or B2 for a follow up mixup.

Aquaman CAN backdash this, but of course, there are ways to punish the backdash if you know he will be doing it (such as a Sword Flip for a HKD or Machine Gun for an easy 11%).

Basically, you can keep Aquaman ensnared in a constant 50/50 guessing game from landing just one combo. This is pretty significant.

On top of this, Aquaman is pretty free to jump attack pressure when he gets HKD. Water shield can get him out of this stuff though.

You want to be either full screen or right in Aquaman's face in this matchup. Midscreen is a no-no. Jumping in the neutral game is suicidal.
 
NYCj360

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
Mikman360 said:
Okay, so some basic things. I'm sure many of you already know this, but I'm posting stuff for the sheer listing of the cold hard facts.

DS can punish Aquaman's From the Deep full screen on block with Quick Fire
DS can duck dodge Trident Toss with Low Shots
DS can punish Trident Toss at HALF screen on block with Quick Fire (but who does this?)
DS can punish Trident Scoop on block with B1U2 AT CLOSE RANGES. For a more reliable punish, I recommmend B222 (for HKD) or 323 (for damage).
Note that all of this is null if he decides to activate trait.

Aquaman can punish Low Shots on block with a From the Deep at about 3/4s screen

I'm just posting the matchup specific punished btw. Everyone knows that Sword Flip can be full combo punished by anyone.

Now here's the real reason I think Aquaman has to stay on his toes in this match. DS bullies him pretty hard on HKD. Here's a little trick I'd like people to look into:

When you get a DS combo on Aquaman, end your combo with D1 xx Flip OR 2 xx Flip. After the Flip hits, do 1 dash, and do F3. This beats ALL of his wakeups (barring the super of course). If you try this in training mode, you can set the CPU to "Random" wakeups. It doesn't matter, this F3 will beat every wakeup they try to do, you don't even have to guess.

Of course, Aquaman can block it, but F3 is +10 on block, allowing you to do B1 or B2 for a follow up mixup.

Aquaman CAN backdash this, but of course, there are ways to punish the backdash if you know he will be doing it (such as a Sword Flip for a HKD or Machine Gun for an easy 11%).

Basically, you can keep Aquaman ensnared in a constant 50/50 guessing game from landing just one combo. This is pretty significant.

On top of this, Aquaman is pretty free to jump attack pressure when he gets HKD. Water shield can get him out of this stuff though.

You want to be either full screen or right in Aquaman's face in this matchup. Midscreen is a no-no. Jumping in the neutral game is suicidal.
Click to expand...

will update original post, nice input!
 
Mikman360

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
Korpse said:
Aquaman can trait this qf punish then duck and whiff punish with FTD. Mb and normal. Only do when he has no trait
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

I know, that's exactly why I had that little note that said this is all null if he has his trait up
 
Immortal Kombat

Immortal Kombat

almost moderate success
Two cents input...DS j+3 has a large hitbox and makes it difficult for aquaman to d+2 DS on reaction( unlike the 90% of the cast). Obviously still good on pre-emptive jump ins though
 
P

PLAYING TO WIN

Champion
why is this front paged...

u guys seriously don't see it do you...
low gs went from being nonpunishable and a frame trap at the right range to being punished by 80% of the cast and a free dash in unlike its pre patch version.

this character is ok but his entire meta game changed. he went from being the best zoner in the game to ... to whatever this is
 
Big Pampering

Big Pampering

Master
PLAYING TO W1N said:
why is this front paged...

u guys seriously don't see it do you...
low gs went from being nonpunishable and a frame trap at the right range to being punished by 80% of the cast and a free dash in unlike its pre patch version.

this character is ok but his entire meta game changed. he went from being the best zoner in the game to ... to whatever this is
Click to expand...

U mean u dont see it. The purpose of this thread is not to whine but to discuss the matchup in the current patch.
 
Crathen

Crathen

Death is my business
Well first off i think Deathstroke controls the pace of the match , Aquaman can't really keep a lifelead fullscreen as From the Deep gets punished by quickfire on block and air guns / quickfire on whiff.


The guessing / bait game some Aquamans will try to play on you is to do FTD and if it gets blocked they pre-empively trait and duck waiting for a MB Quickfire to punish it on whiff , don't get greedy and just punish with standard quickfire , he'll be able to block the 2nd bullet ( no he can't duck it ) but he won't punish it if he's waiting for the MB version , secondly quickfire on block can be punished just outside jump distance wich is a range he won't FTD without taking huge risks.

Low gunshot still is useful since he doesn't punish it fullscreen and 3/4 screen he needs to reversal FTD to get a punish so you can play mindgames delaying MB LGS wich is safe anywhere on the screen on block ( unless you're range 0 naturally ).

Aquaman has to chase DS in this matchup while still having to worry about LGS and quickfire so you get to choose how and when to approach him in cqc , jumping back to create space to make him impatient , J3 is hard to anti air on reaction when done at max range ( hit him with the tip of the sword ) but it's not impossible so use it wisely while weakening his reaction ( and patience ) with jump backs and MB LGS in footsies.

If you jump at him in close range switch to J1 as it's harder to AA thanks to the good amount of active frames on it wich can stuff his d2 , at times you'll trade with it and unfortunately aquaman can still convert into a combo so be aware of that.

You can punish trident rush /MB trident rush with Sword Flip by stand blocking it and if he always advances forward while doing it , max range b12xxtrident rush can be punished even if he doesn't advance as the last stab will whiff.

Be wary that anytime he has trait he can use it pre emptively and block Sword flip , know that you can simply choose to wait and let him waste his trait.

His J1 and J2 are easy to AA on reaction with d2 but never try to AA his j3 with d2 , if they use that switch to Sword Flip AA or air to air with J1 or just space it to let it whiff.

Don't be fooled by his f1 -> b12 / f13 mixups , a good advice is to buffer backdash after blocking f1 , this will evade f1-> b12 leaving him open to being punished with 323 / b1u2 , depending on the timing of your backdash you could either evade the f1(3) or get caught by it wich is 5% damage and puts you back almost fullscreen.

If you want to make a read on f13 you can MB F3 it in between f1-MB f3 - 3 to punish him , this will not work if he does f1 -> b12 but will work if he tries to f1 -> f1.

Aquaman wakeup options suck vs Deathstroke airborne attacks like j3 and f3 and you can set them up from all DS main starters , some are escapable on a read with backdash / forward dash but that's beside the point he can't punish you for jumping when he's knocked down and has to take risks to get out.

As others said the post blocked F3 50/50 game is not backdashable thanks to b23 but i want to add things on the subject:

You don't need to b23 , instead do b2xxSS this will option select as in if he blocks b2xxSS comes out creating some space to not be stuck in his f1/b12 range , if he backdashes then b23 will come out ( as SS input involves 3 ) and will punish him.

D1xxSS is also not backdashable after f3 and will catch them buffering backdash.

I'll add more later when i have time but good job guys.
 
NYCj360

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
PLAYING TO W1N said:
why is this front paged...

u guys seriously don't see it do you...
low gs went from being nonpunishable and a frame trap at the right range to being punished by 80% of the cast and a free dash in unlike its pre patch version.

this character is ok but his entire meta game changed. he went from being the best zoner in the game to ... to whatever this is
Click to expand...

I think the only reason this is front paged is to promote the idea of actually discussing match ups instead of throwing around match up numbers like everyone on this site does. I didn't front page this and i see nothing wrong with this.

Do you have anything on either side of the match up to contribute?
 
Duck Nation

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
The incremental trait nerfs have helped. Aquaman's free as shit on wakeup to DS and pretty much gets styled on, but the problem is getting him down. DS can't jump on Aquaman in the neutral game at all unless the Aquaman is straight up asleep, gets outfootsied in general, and while the risk is marginally higher for FTD than for gunshots, the rewards can also be considerably more notable. I don't think it's actually very advisable for Aquaman to use trait against gunshots especially now, but it is a factor regardless. Really comes down to what Aquaman stands to gain in any specific situation.

MB F3 is really useful in this match for DS. It's one of his best tools for getting past that trident, and of course the bounce on first hit is good for anybody trying to fight Aquaman. Corners are even better for this reason, since Aquaman is highly vulnerable to the CoD vortex.

(Deathstroke's still weak. :D)
 
NYCj360

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
One thing i noticed in the matchup is that Deathstroke has a few combo starters that launch aquaman off of the ground immediately. So atleast he has a few damage options for trait since water of life is a pain to most of the cast.

D2, F3, 323, F23 xx Sword Flip = 25%
F3, Ji2, 323, F23 xx Sword Flip = 33%
B3, Ji3, Ji2, 323, 12 xx Sword Flip = 39%

all are meterless and midscreen

Taken from Mikman360 combo thread.


 
RM Jonnitti

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
any suggestions for punishing trident when he has trait available from up close? d2 has shit for range so its mad unreliable. i would also think f23 and just have him block the 2nd hit and take the frame advantage but that has shit for range too
 
Mikman360

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
AVN|jonnitti said:
any suggestions for punishing trident when he has trait available from up close? d2 has shit for range so its mad unreliable. i would also think f23 and just have him block the 2nd hit and take the frame advantage but that has shit for range too
Click to expand...

You could always throw him.

But how are you bagging on D2's range when you suggest that F23 is viable? That things is the true "shit for range" attack.
 
NYCj360

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
AVN|jonnitti said:
any suggestions for punishing trident when he has trait available from up close? d2 has shit for range so its mad unreliable. i would also think f23 and just have him block the 2nd hit and take the frame advantage but that has shit for range too
Click to expand...
D2 is the best bet if you block it up close, if not your best bet is connecting s3 into mbb3 cancel for the j3, j2, 323, f23 sword flip
 
Mikman360

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
G4S J360 said:
D2 is the best bet if you block it up close, if not your best bet is connecting s3 into mbb3 cancel for the j3, j2, 323, f23 sword flip
Click to expand...

Wait, how does this work with the trait up? Won't he get hit by 3 then block MB B3?

Also, if you use that combo, dont end with F23 Flip. Remember, it's gotta be 12 Flip.

Or if you've been paying attention to my suggestions on oki pressuring Aquaman, D1 Flip is a good choice too.
 
NYCj360

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
Mikman360 said:
Wait, how does this work with the trait up? Won't he get hit by 3 then block MB B3?

Also, if you use that combo, dont end with F23 Flip. Remember, it's gotta be 12 Flip.

Or if you've been paying attention to my suggestions on oki pressuring Aquaman, D1 Flip is a good choice too.
Click to expand...

yeah i believe it works with trait up, doctrine dark put up a video with it a long time ago showing that mb cancelled moves negate the water of life. I'm not at home to confirm but it should work.
 
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