Menu
By:
Filters
What's new

Strategy Dealing with and Punishing Zoners

OnlineRon91

OnlineRon91

Joker++
Joker has trouble getting in on characters who use projectiles, which there are many of. I hope this thread can serve as a guideline on how to punish zoning type characters and shift the momentum to Joker’s favor.
Joker’s main punish tool is BANG! On hit we can safely forward dash once. On hit against an airborne opponent, we can safely forward dash two times.
You can also preemptively use BANG! on a read with some of the slower projectiles in the game, use at your discretion.​

Straight Grapple (1 Hit)
On Block: BANG! from 3/4 Screen or less or Forward Dash.
On Whiff: BANG! from Any distance.
Batarang (2 Hits)
On Block: Forward Dash.
MB Batarang (3 Hits)
On Block: Safe.

Notes: MB Batarang has "A shit-ton of advantage" - StevoSuprem0
Lightning Storm (1 Hit)
On Block: Safe.
Black Magic (1 Hit)
On Block: BANG! from 3/4 Screen or less or Forward Dash.
Lightning Strike (1 Hit)
On Block: Forward Dash.
MB Lightning Strike (3 Hits)
On Block: Safe.

Notes: When trying to avoid MB Lightning Strike on reaction, jump when the Strike is about to hit you in order to avoid all three Strikes.
Fear Blast (1 Hit)
On Block: BANG! from Mid Screen or less or Forward Dash.
On Whiff: BANG! from 3/4 Screen or less or Forward Dash.
MB Fear Blast (3 Hits)
On Block: Safe.
On Whiff: BANG! from Sweep or less.
Impact Event (1 Hit)
On Block: BANG! from Any distance.
Final Shackles (1 Hit)
On Block: BANG! from 3/4 Screen or less or Forward Dash.
Beware Your Fears (1 Hit x 3)
On Block: Safe.

Notes: Fear Blast and MB Fear Blast whiff from 3/4 Screen distance or less by crouching. Within this distance, if you were blocking high, you should still crouch to make the last hit of MB Fear Blast whiff. Forward Dashing before Impact Event fully comes down will cause the projectile to whiff.

Heat Vision (1 Hit)
On Block: BANG! from Jump distance or less or Forward Dash.
MB Heat Vision (2 Hits)
On Block: Safe.
(Air) Heat Vision (1 Hit)
On Block: BANG! from Any to 3/4 Screen or less (see Notes) or Forward Dash.
(Air) MB Heat Vision (2 Hits)
On Block: Safe.
Heat Zap (1 Hit)
On Block: Safe.
On Whiff: Forward Dash.

Notes: If (Air) Heat Vision is done at the peak of Superman's jump, you may punish with BANG! from Full Screen or less, but if done as low to the ground as possible (Instant Air version), you may punish from 3/4 Screen or less.
Fire Kiss (1 Hit)
On Block: Safe.
On Whiff: BANG! from Jump distance or less.
Mb Fire Kiss (1 Hit)
On Block: Safe.
Linking Ring (1 Hit)
On Block: Safe.
MB Linking Ring (1 Hit)
On Block: Safe.
Puppet Master (1 Hit)
On Block: BANG! from Mid Screen or less or Forward Dash.
Fifty Two Pickup (1 Hit)
On Block: Forward Dash.
Straight Magic (1 Hit)
On Block: Safe.
On Whiff: Safe.
Ground Magic (1 Hit)
On Block: Safe.
Magic Pillar (1 Hit)
On Block: Safe.

Notes: All of Zatanna’s Projectiles can be forward jumped on reaction. The only two that will give you trouble are Linking Ring/MB Linking Ring outside of Jump distance and Fifty Two Pickup. The latter can be beaten out with ji3. You cannot preemptively Forward Dash Puppet Master.
 
Last edited:
StevoSuprem0

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
You'll wanna add dashing information to this as well, because the main goal is to get in; if we try to sit back and zone, we'll lose that fight unless we have a pretty decent life lead.
To Fear Blast, we can dash against it on block from a normal, but not if he confirms into MB, so be aware of his meter at all times. If we hit him with gun and he blocks, it's a free dash until you are really close to him (reduces the travel time of his fear blast; just input the dash and hold down). If we trade with him, we can potentiiiiiaaallllyyyy get a dash if our gun hits a few frames after his blast hits us, extending the advantage window just enough to get it in.
To Impact Event, add that you can dash it on reaction. I can't most of the time because my brain is all slow and shit, but it's possible... lol.
Blocked shackles is also a dash.
 
Fromundaman

Fromundaman

I write too much.
Dashing boulder on reaction is the best thing to do. Impact Event is - a billion on whiff. We get 2 free dashes for sure, possibly even 3. A good Sinestro won't use this often.
 
StevoSuprem0

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Zod is on my list, hopefully getting some games with Pig soon, but a friend of mine that's a prety solid player is also picking him up.
In all, we have Zod, Batman, Deatstroke, Harley, Cyborg, Green Arrow, Raven, and MMH that we should focus on specifically as being able to be played completely as zoners, with Superman, Killer Frost, Black Adam, Green Lantern, and Nightwing having decent zoning elements that we should talk about. I'm sure Qwark28 has plenty to add as well.
I know he plays a good Deathstroke pretty frequently, but I think all there you have to do is block low and dash after every shot to close the gap, being wary of his meter as well. MB shots are still dashable and have the same block disadvantage for him, but will throw you off if he confirms into them when you weren't expecting. Do not try to play the gun game with him... his quick shots have an 11f startup with 5f hit advantage. You can get a shot in on block, but he can just duck it, so dashing is more worth it. Jump the low shots if you can to avoid chip. Sword flip is also punishable at -25 on block. Up close he has pretty solid mixup, but a slower d1 (7f) than ours, so take advantage of that. Respect sword flip and spin on wakeup. Sword spin is not punishable per-se, but leaves us at a 6 frame advantage, so it's a safe 212 into whatever. When they are just blindly waking up with sword flip, lay down teeth at the end of combos and pushblock them for a reset.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I have experience vs all of the chars mentioned in the above post

Harley's zoning is more of a nuisance, no damage at all

Green Arrow the same but if you get hit by a wrong arrow he can be huge +, I usually just jump in, giving no fucks until I'm in a good footsie range

Batman is a solid zoner, the bats hurt more than anything but once you knock him down it's lights out.

will add more later.
 
OnlineRon91

OnlineRon91

Joker++
Alright then Zod should be our next priority. I know Stevo told me hes never played SF4 but in that game if you try to block and dash you'll take forever to get close, the legit way is to jump over them without stepping into their anti-air range. Which is funny that in this game, it's suicide to try to jump over zoners lol.

Just another mindset that I have to get accustomed to.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
vs GL

when parrying B13 parry using B4, tap both.

doing B4 ensures that youre blocking and the parry is an "option select"

parry at the right time and it comes out, parry at the wrong time and you block
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
also make sure you practice both stances when parrying, i rely on visual cues first and then get it down so for me its a big deal.
 
StevoSuprem0

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Add one for batman that says "get fucked" lol.
I hate trying to close distance on him. Gotta delay the gun to trade with batarangs and anytime he has bats out, you gotta play really smart because he can catch you with the bats during recovery from a lot of points on the screen. It's a huge problem if he gets the life lead on you and wants to sit back.
 
The PantyChrist

The PantyChrist

Rest in Pantiez
If that's your problem. I suggest dash canceling more often than actually firing, although fire just enough to make him respect it. I think batmans hitbox lowers during his dash and when he throws batarangs so a lot of times it won't even trade. You may even build some meter on your way in. Not saying it a great option but better than jumping in and getting hit by bat bot/ grapple for full combo
 
StevoSuprem0

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
The_PantyChrist said:
If that's your problem. I suggest dash canceling more often than actually firing, although fire just enough to make him respect it. I think batmans hitbox lowers during his dash and when he throws batarangs so a lot of times it won't even trade. You may even build some meter on your way in. Not saying it a great option but better than jumping in and getting hit by bat bot/ grapple for full combo
Click to expand...
No, yeah, I do that a lot as well, but if they are good at bat management and have some meter, there is nothing you can do but block and maybe walk forward a slight amount. You're correct, Batman's dash and batarang animation lower his hitbox, causing shots to whiff. You can trade with him on batarangs if you delay the shot a bit, but that's it (AND Joker's gunshot is the ONLY projectile in the game that functions this way... ugh). Trading is only useful if you have the life lead.
He's just hard to approach due to his general screen control. Any character that functions this way is a rough fight for Joker.
At least once you knock Batman down, things are more in your favor, it's just a matter of getting him there.
 
Fromundaman

Fromundaman

I write too much.
Fuck the Batman matchup. That is the only matchup to have ever made me rage quit a match (Yes, I was pissed when I learned he could dash through the gun.).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.