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DAYYYYUM: Confessions of a Disgruntled MK9 Kommunity Member

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gamemk

Mortal
i think the most effective commentary is a mixture of player psychology and funny banter(what might player(x) be thinking vs player(y), and in your opinion, why did they make (x or y)decision... history of past games/experiences, and any anecdotes you might know of). that's what goes on during any professional sports broadcast, so i don't see why fg's should be any different. as far as flowface and trolling goes...i like it. if you don't want to read the chat close it. the chat is like any drunk fan at a sports game.

imo.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
It would help, but then again the advantage of being a close knit scene is that our fans are twice as passionate...basically, MK is the ECW of the '90's: maybe not technically the best game, but super passionate fans and a grass roots origin. I think it's good that they our as passionate as they are, but I think we also need strong willed commentators who won't cater to every Kappa and Floeface in the chat.
Thank you <3.

Phil, Sabin, anybody who has the means to grant me the power: I'd be happy to call some matches at Winter Brawl.
I feel like I'd be fully capable of treading the line between pro play-caller and delusional inducer of laughter really well.
Hell, I'll go run through the cast and learn how to identify all their respective stuff just so I know the proper deetz.
Anybody who knows me knows I can't shut up about this damn game half the time. May as well put my prowess to good use.
I solemnly swear on Shinnok's Book Of The Netherrealm, I will not disappoint you guys.

I had a feeling L.I. Joe was gonna be a bit scattered just because of how long he'd been out of the game, but as was said, he goes waaaay back in the timeline, so it was cool just to have him on hand :D, and he definitely sounded like he was making the effort in spite of not being totally well-versed.

I say leave the stream alone during matches, pick through it for useful conversation in between sets.
That way the stream monsters aren't a distraction, and you have a pool of possible talking material to sift through when you need conversation filler to carry from match to match.
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
I think REO and I have good discussions about game mechanics while commentating together (which was once)
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
yeah, Pig did well, kinda professional behaviour there

When we do our local level up get togethers I'm very loose, unprofessional and random but it's something I've acknowledged and have been working onfor our local tourneys

I do think commentators need to know majority of what's safe/un safe on block as well as +

Also MUs generally and be able to offer their opinions of the MU but also discuss how others feel about the MU because we aren't always right
 

xenogorgeous

.... they mostly come at night. Mostly.
Pig Of The Hut

You know the "name of the game". Your know what you're talking about. Your comments on NEC finals were very good. I think is pretty much a touch of class if you might comment in Final Round.
 

NariTuba

disMember
I want FR to set a new standard
Whoever is commentating should commentate, period. They shouldnt talk about themselves, they shouldnt respond to trolls or the chat at all while the match is going on. Joking around and being hype is entertaining as long as commentators remain engaged in the match.

Good stuff putting this all together man. Looking forward to FR.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
I think REO and I have good discussions about game mechanics while commentating together (which was once)
When we do our local level up get togethers I'm very loose, unprofessional and random but it's something I've acknowledged and have been working onfor our local tourneys

I do think commentators need to know majority of what's safe/un safe on block as well as +

Also MUs generally and be able to offer their opinions of the MU but also discuss how others feel about the MU because we aren't always right
I always get hyped for you and the guys calling Battle & Brew. You definitely have the chutzpah, sir.

I'm better learned in the ways of details, matchups, being unbiased and semi-educational/receptive when it comes to matchups, whether even or one-sided. The one guy I hear the most of between MK & other streams (MvC/SSF4) that I try and take useful details of how to do the job right is Arturo. Dude is like Professor Kombat.

I can be Boxy Styles, dammit! I just need a grey suit, a red tie and some glasses...
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
The thing that i'm most interested in... regardless of how good or bad someone is playing... is HOW they won. Explain certain punishes YOU guys know and see that most of do not. After a round is over... discuss how they are playing. But during the match, point out things that are important, rather than fucking going "DAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAM". That stuff should be left to casuals and Money matches, where that type of hype is more than welcomed and accepted.

Overall there is zero information being relayed to the people watching that want to watch for the matches. I tend to not say a single word in chat during big matches, because i'm trying to understand why they are fighting the way they are. If the high level people would push the explanation... people like myself who are good, not great... will become great.
 

xenogorgeous

.... they mostly come at night. Mostly.
yep, I was taking a major attention during NEC finals, Detroit x CDJr, to figure out their gameplay and what they were doing, instead of paying attention in the chat room where was filled with some crazy dudes there, hehe :D

It's always nice to see good top players doing their best, always good.
 

KRYS9984

Apprentice
When i commentated at NEC top 4 i tried to be educational and stop brady from bias-ness

At Final Round there will be 2 commentators per pool and id like to receive recommendations.

You cannot commentate a pool what so ever if you're playing in that pool though.

No Slang words (you know what i mean), abusive language, bias, etc.

Also i will assign a third to mod stream chat only on the keybaord as well as control the salt cam.

Please msg me if interested but do not be offended if i see any rules broken that'll i kick you off.

What we're looking for at final round is strong commentary, educational/informative, hype at the same time but not over bearing.

hit me up in PM or in this thread i guess if you want to recommend someone for commentary and do PM me about people YOU DO NOT want to see commentating as well. Please let me know as well if i am one you do not want, ill take no offense.

I want FR to set a new standard
I would without doubt recommed you as a candidate; you've got my vote 100%.

I really enjoyed your commentary at NEC; as the finals were progressing, I actually remarked (to a friend of mine watching with me) what a great job you were doing.

Similar to Under The Mayo's tutorial videos, you speak clearly, provide knowledge and keep things interesting for the viewers.

Pig Of The Hut for Final Round!!!!!
 

B W1zZ

Warrior
My biggest gripe with commentary is when the commentary is about something totally unrelated to what's actually taking place. The focus of the commentators should stay on the match and what's happening in the here and now, not some other game or about how little they know about MK.

I think all the DAAAAMN's and MK drama and what not should be reserved for the in-between intermissions between matches, all the while staying focused on MK specifically and mechanics of THIS specific game and/or it's players, not some other fighting game. I mean commentators don't have to be robots; just professional, knowledgeable, and relevant to what's happening, while being focused on MK specifically.
 

9.95

Champion
I actually have quite a bit to say on this subject.

When I'm on the mic, I try to be as informative as possible and call the matches intelligently and accurately while giving some insight into the match and/or matchup... and occasionally a little history/backstory of the players if possible. I also try to interact with the stream chat to a degree, and like any human being, I sometimes get caught up in the stream chat a little and lose focus on the match at hand...and believe me, we ALL do this.

The next thing I will say is, and this holds ESPECIALLY TRUE for those of you who have never been on mic before, but it is an extremely difficult task to get on a microphone, armed with nothing more than some knowledge of the game, and accurately and intelligently explain what is going on. Some people get nervous, some people can't speak that quickly, some people lock up. It's also difficult, without being too redundant, to take a single match, which is less than 5 minutes, and be informative AND entertaining all at the same time. Remember, this isn't a radio show where we spend hours per day preparing for a 5-6 hour show. We're all amateurs who think we can be entertaining, and to be quite honest, not everyone can be. The fact is, at VSM, I can only think of a handful of people who commentate who find the balance between informative and entertaining at the same time.

SO ONCE AGAIN, FOR THE PEOPLE IN THIS THREAD WHO ARE BASHING THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE INTESTINAL FORTITUDE TO GET ON MIC AND TRY, GIVE IT A GO YOURSELF AND SEE IF YOU DON'T SPEND THE FIRST 15 MINUTES GOING, "HUMMANA-HUMMANA-HUMMANA-HUMMANA..."

Regarding Revolution X: The commentary team was supposed to be a mix of myself, Arturo, and LI Joe. I was unable to do the commentary because I was in agonizing pain all night. Last Friday I ruptured an oblique muscle and fractured a rib, and didn't know it till I did it AGAIN on Sunday right before Revolution X was supposed to start.


I agree that commentary has to get better and more professional. This doesn't always mean bringing in pro players to call a game or break down a match.

We have had problems in the past with pro players getting on stream and doing nothing more than arguing with the stream while ignoring the matches.

I have had to turn the fader down on a commentator who wouldn't stop cursing.

CDJR. and REO will both tell you that they've spent the better part of a stream saying DAYUM!

I've told jokes and stories on the stream completely unrelated to the match at hand.

The point is that we've all been guilty of something and that we can work on changing it.



Overall, what we need is to get people who want to/like to commentate to commit to being more professional, more insightful, just as entertaining, and be willing to cultivate the skill of combining all of that into a 5 minute match.

What we also need, are people willing to be honest and give constructive criticism, but not by saying, "u suk, go die", but instead giving true criticism and helping the commentators understand their mistakes.

Lastly, we need stream producers who aren't afraid to pull someone from commentary because they're afraid of hurting feelings. Bad commentary can lose viewers, and good commentary on bad games can keep viewers losing interest to continue watching.
 

B W1zZ

Warrior
Phil I think you're one of the best MK commentators out there right now, it's obvious you actually put thought and effort into commentating the matches and being informative. I personally don't have much experience commentating and would probably suck at it, but I do watch a lot of streams, and know that I want to hear talk about the match, not something irrelevant (talking outside of the match is fine sometimes though as long as it's not extensive).

I wasn't really thrilled by LI Joes commentary but I tolerated it...but it's understandable he hasn't played the game since PDP and generally isn't focused on MK. I guess my point is that the commentator should have their own unique, distinguished "voice" or "style" and have an obvious dedication to breaking down the match for the viewers and offering insight into what's going on.

Anyways hope you're recovering from your injury man, kombatnetwork NEEDS you!
 

Playpal

Warrior
If the commentator isn't annoying I'm cool with that. I'm cool with them talking about anything so long as they're not saying something clueless about the game. I remember watching REO use JC back in late June and Phil would talk about arcade sticks. It was good commentating even though I didn't really give a shit lol. I kinda don't like it when Phil tries to commentate the game though, he goes too fast and doesn't have the best knowledge of the game. With casuals I don't really care about what the commentators say tbh. I always thought VSM had really awesome casual commentating like dark rob, cdjr, paper legend. I remember at one point Tom Brady was just having a fun time commentating and that was cool too, refreshing when he's not hating on haters.

For casuals, i guess it's like those call of duty channels. You record yourself playing, then talk about some random shit.
 

9.95

Champion
Phil I think you're one of the best MK commentators out there right now, it's obvious you actually put thought and effort into commentating the matches and being informative. I personally don't have much experience commentating and would probably suck at it, but I do watch a lot of streams, and know that I want to hear talk about the match, not something irrelevant (talking outside of the match is fine sometimes though as long as it's not extensive).

I wasn't really thrilled by LI Joes commentary but I tolerated it...but it's understandable he hasn't played the game since PDP and generally isn't focused on MK. I guess my point is that the commentator should have their own unique, distinguished "voice" or "style" and have an obvious dedication to breaking down the match for the viewers and offering insight into what's going on.

Anyways hope you're recovering from your injury man, kombatnetwork NEEDS you!
Thank you, sir. I never really considered myself a good commentator, I just tried to find something that worked for me and stick with it.

If commentators find something that works for them, and mix that with being informative and entertaining, the commentating will definitely get better.
 

quandaghost

kung lao swag walker
yes i agree with sub_crash4 im more interested in the tactics that got the win, that if the character was one i was playing i could use that info and ect. Also pig i think i would be very productive to kick those people in the chat who are just trolling the stream and being blatantly ignorant about the game or just being stupid. Im really passionate about MK and im the only person in my community that plays it. It really saddens me to think that we could have so many more players if we would have explained things about the game earlier on than just troll. Like we should give advise on avoiding things in the game as well as game mechanics while the stream is going such as you know dodging projectiles by ducking w/o block, and why some combos are unbreakable.
 

9.95

Champion
If the commentator isn't annoying I'm cool with that. I'm cool with them talking about anything so long as they're not saying something clueless about the game. I remember watching REO use JC back in late June and Phil would talk about arcade sticks. It was good commentating even though I didn't really give a shit lol. I kinda don't like it when Phil tries to commentate the game though, he goes too fast and doesn't have the best knowledge of the game. With casuals I don't really care about what the commentators say tbh. I always thought VSM had really awesome casual commentating like dark rob, cdjr, paper legend. I remember at one point Tom Brady was just having a fun time commentating and that was cool too, refreshing when he's not hating on haters.

For casuals, i guess it's like those call of duty channels. You record yourself playing, then talk about some random shit.
This is good criticism. I've heard people tell me I go too fast at times, and I know my knowledge of the game isn't the best.

I try to make up for my lack of super in depth knowledge of the game with an overall knowledge of the players, a fairly good knowlege of the character matchups and what each player is trying to accomplish at any given time in the match, and a good memory of how each player fared in past tournaments.

I'll be honest, I'm never going to know frame data, but my overall understanding of the game, and fighting games in general helps me through those times. I also have a good grasp of the players by now... since I can say with complete confidence, I have WATCHED more of this game than many people out there. All I do is watch... so I have learned to see players' styles and how they play.... stuff like that helps make up for my lack of in depth knowledge.
 

K7L33THA

Grapple > Footsies
From the little commentating I've done I can say yes it is really fucking hard! I can only imagine trying to do it in a live stream setting where people are running around and distracting you and shit.

Regarding the "seriousness" of the commentary - I think there should be a happy medium. The intensity of the match should dictate the intensity of the commentary. And its amazing how vocal tones can add hype to a close finish.

I also disagree with the commentators NOT reading the stream chat. Like 95 percent of the MK9 community is cool as shit. And we know the trolls by now.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
I'll be honest, I'm never going to know frame data, but my overall understanding of the game, and fighting games in general helps me through those times. I also have a good grasp of the players by now... since I can say with complete confidence, I have WATCHED more of this game than many people out there. All I do is watch... so I have learned to see players' styles and how they play.... stuff like that helps make up for my lack of in depth knowledge.

Dude, I feel the same way.
Lack of Online quality + lack of local scene = 90% of the stuff I learn, I pick up watching and studying.
I can't tell you how much time I've lost to this laptop just to figure out certain matchups or certain's player's styles and tactics to keep in mind (I have a good few pages of playbook just on VSM's & B&B's alone, just in case the paths should ever cross). All those things that neither AI nor Lag Kombat can teach, I learned watching the fights unfold.

I would say it's safe to call you the Jim Ross of MK commentary.
The awesome play-by-play caller who covers every base of what he sees. I dig technicality :D.
Brady's more like a JBL (Man, I miss JBL commentary), the well-spoken, loud but poignant type who'll call bull when he sees it, but can also make just about any match sound good when he wants to.
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
I'll be completely honest, I usually end up lowering the volume of the commentary down to almost nothing because I really hate the bad jokes and the constant repetition of words like "Damn!". Then there's the other end of the spectrum: those who commentate every single move as though we can't see the picture on screen. Commentary I enjoy listening to ends up informing me. Tell us why they're doing something, don't just tell us what they're doing. We can all learn from good insights like that., regardless of what level we play at.

It helps if those on mic are relatively articulate people.
 

Justice

Warrior
This turned into a "bash the commentators" thread really quick didn't it? Let's see if we can focus here....

Since we're already on the topic of commentators, I agree this needs to change. When I'm watching a recent stream and some asshat is talking about ordering chicken and how hype Soul Caliber V is gonna be over matches, I had to turn my volume off. Rule #1: You never want your audience to change the channel. Take the team of Jerry Lawler and Jim Ross in WWE. Now granted they have the advantage that their product is semi-scripted and they have Vince screamin in their ears, but they know their stuff. They know what the names of the moves are, they know the ebb and flow of the action and they have the ability to elevate a mediocre match to great heights. They educated the fans while keeping them engaged. Another great example is CM Punk during his short stint as commentator. That shit should be shown in every Commentator's 101 class.

Speaking of education, the commentators should be our last line of defence against "tech hounds". The ones that come up with amazing new techs and don't share. I'll talk about them more laqter, but for now it's the commentator's job to pick that apart on stream for the folks at home. I know I ask a lot of people that are devoting their precious time in an unpaid position, but someone opened Pandora's Box ;)

Now, getting back to some of Hippo's other points: the "Tech Hounds". You guys gotta wake up. This isn't Street Fighter. This isn't the '80s. I can understand keeping it secret for a time up to the next tournament. Then you display your mad tech and later you hop on stream or in post-tourney interviews explain it for everyone. With 3 million copies sold and a new Komplete Edition being sold for those "that don't have the game yet", that means a lot of potential players. Out of those first 3 mil, how many are still playing now? How many are still playing competatively? Why? A large reason is people not willing to explain or "demystify" the game for newcomers or those out of the loop. I'm sure that's far from the only reason, but it is one of the major reasons that we CAN control.

I think Tom Brady, God love him, needs a break. He really needs to take a step back and take a look at what he's created. He himself said that the kommunity needs "WWE-style promos and feuds" to build hype. Now he wants to complain about the current state of the kommunity and poise himself as the "saviour"? I totally agree, the kommunity does need saving - from ideas like this. You don't see the Olympics cutting "WWE-style promos" for hype? How about chess majors? Poker? Biggest orgasm contests at the AVNs? Nope. We now have people spending more time creating theme music for players and in-game characters (WTF!?!?!?!?!) than we do working on tech. I'm not blaming Tom for all of this, but it is a natural extension of what he started.

Bottom line is this: Casuals are casuals and should be treated as such. Tournaments are serious business and should be treated as such. I think a simple way of explaining what I'm saying is to say: treat it like a dvd. The movie is serious business and is your money-maker and have the antics as an extra blooper-reel or something similar.
 

IDYLEHANDZ

Slave to burgers
I agree with many of these points. Sadly enough, when I watch a stream 9 out of 10 I just mute the stream and put pandora radio on the background...
This isn't to say that I would or could do better. (would have to have me at gun point to get me up there)
So thank you so much to any of the people that get up and try.
 

9.95

Champion
1. This turned into a "bash the commentators" thread really quick didn't it?

2. I know I ask a lot of people that are devoting their precious time in an unpaid position, but someone opened Pandora's Box

3. We now have people spending more time creating theme music for players and in-game characters (WTF!?!?!?!?!) than we do working on tech.
1. Yes, it did... and not many who spend their time TRYING to get better appreciate the bashing... we appreciate the constructive criticism, but the bashing has to stop.

2. It's way more than an unpaid position. It's unpaid, it can be thankless, and especially for the stream producer, the out of pocket costs can be monumental. Since I began streaming in May, I have purchased:

-$100 capture card
-2x $50 component video splitters
-2x $40 hdmi to component converters, both which broke
-$180 asus monitor for the players
-$200 hdfury2
-$60 audio mixer
-2x $20 mics
-$1700 custom PC with built in cap card
$65 webcam for the players
-various other small pieces of equipment like 1/4" to rca jack converters, cables, wires, surge protectors, etc.

That makes $2,525 MINIMUM out of pocket in under a year on stream equipment. It's WAY more than an unpaid position, and those of you who complain, need to think about that before telling people to spend more time... or else invest your own $2500 and do it better yourselves.

**BTW, this doesn't mean I'm ungrateful for every person who criticizes... it just means that if you think that stream producers haven't put the time or energy into their streams, you're dead wrong. That's all I think about these days...how can I make my stream better? What can I add, what can I do?

3. You're right, I have spent time thinking of "theme music" for some players and in game characters... but nowhere near as much time as you implied. I did it spur of the moment on a night when I didn't have many players and needed to generate interest to keep people involved. I try to evolve my show, make it interesting for the viewers. I do that by trying to be a better commentator and producer... This means thinking of new things to keep people entertained and on the stream... including dumb little things that make people laugh like a small intro song. If it doesn't fly, I'll remove it, if it does I keep it.
 
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