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Darkseid Matchup Discussion

CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
what's everyone's opinion on the Firestorm MU btw? First impressions, he can whiff punish Omega Beams from a decent distance and burn a bar for a launcher off of it which doesn't feel good and up close his normals are reaaaaally good.
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
I believe @Metzos has already pointed out the total recovery frames on the grounded omega beam. About one third of characters in the game can crouch and whiff punish the grounded omega beam at mid range. Some examples include...

- Aquaman's FTD
- Atrocitus' blood puddle
- Deadshot's wrist shot
- Firestorm's mid flame carpet
- Flash's lighting punches
- Poison Ivy's vine drill
- Supergirl's trait
- Swamp Thing's close and mid vine grab

The instant aerial omega beam has a much superior recovery to the grounded version but cannot hit at certain ranges because of the arc. You will have to know at which range to use the grounded and aerial version and in which match up.
 
Parasurama

Parasurama

Dragon
General M2Dave said:
I believe @Metzos has already pointed out the total recovery frames on the grounded omega beam. About one third of characters in the game can crouch and whiff punish the grounded omega beam at mid range. Some examples include...

- Aquaman's FTD
- Atrocitus' blood puddle
- Deadshot's wrist shot
- Firestorm's mid flame carpet
- Flash's lighting punches
- Poison Ivy's vine drill
- Supergirl's trait
- Swamp Thing's close and mid vine grab

The instant aerial omega beam has a much superior recovery to the grounded version but cannot hit at certain ranges because of the arc. You will have to know at which range to use the grounded and aerial version and in which match up.
Click to expand...
And the instant Omega beams are safe?
 
Metzos

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
General M2Dave said:
I believe @Metzos has already pointed out the total recovery frames on the grounded omega beam. About one third of characters in the game can crouch and whiff punish the grounded omega beam at mid range. Some examples include...

- Aquaman's FTD
- Atrocitus' blood puddle
- Deadshot's wrist shot
- Firestorm's mid flame carpet
- Flash's lighting punches
- Poison Ivy's vine drill
- Supergirl's trait
- Swamp Thing's close and mid vine grab

The instant aerial omega beam has a much superior recovery to the grounded version but cannot hit at certain ranges because of the arc. You will have to know at which range to use the grounded and aerial version and in which match up.
Click to expand...
I havent said anything about the recovery of grounded omega beams. What i ve said was that, in my opinion, low omega beams should have fullscreen range and they should have a mb version which launches, much like Zod's low lasers in IGAU 1.

Also when in mid range mb OB should be used instead of regular one, imo.

Post edited.
 
B

Basic Stupidity

Warrior
EMPEROR_KNICKS said:
Darkseid either 6-4 or 7-3s superman, that mu is awful for supes.
Click to expand...
how? I feel like I cant do anything once he starts his f23 pressure. I guess I can see that he beats his zoning but i dont know what do do once he gets in. Note: im just starting to use darkseid so i dont kno everything.
 
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EMPEROR_KNICKS

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
Basic Stupidity said:
how? I feel like I cant do anything once he starts his f23 pressure. I guess I can see that he beats his zoning but i dont know what do do once he gets in. Note: im just starting to use darkseid so i dont kno everything.
Click to expand...
Reversal ex knee is good, hard for supes to get in, darkseids options are good against f23, d1, s2, etc. But the reason reversal knee is good is that supes cant stuff with f2 unless hes frame perfect and that really hard, and if he tries stuffing that you got d1 exx knee, and in both situations its your turn. Also supes has a hard time anti airing darkseid, and he has a tough time stuffing darkseids wakeup, also darkseid can anti air supes consistently.
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
EMPEROR_KNICKS said:
Reversal ex knee is good, hard for supes to get in, darkseids options are good against f23, d1, s2, etc. But the reason reversal knee is good is that supes cant stuff with f2 unless hes frame perfect and that really hard, and if he tries stuffing that you got d1 exx knee, and in both situations its your turn. Also supes has a hard time anti airing darkseid, and he has a tough time stuffing darkseids wakeup, also darkseid can anti air supes consistently.
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Interesting. I have always been under the impression that Darkseid loses the match.

How do you think Darkseid does against Black Adam and Red Hood?
 
B

Basic Stupidity

Warrior
EMPEROR_KNICKS said:
Reversal ex knee is good, hard for supes to get in, darkseids options are good against f23, d1, s2, etc. But the reason reversal knee is good is that supes cant stuff with f2 unless hes frame perfect and that really hard, and if he tries stuffing that you got d1 exx knee, and in both situations its your turn. Also supes has a hard time anti airing darkseid, and he has a tough time stuffing darkseids wakeup, also darkseid can anti air supes consistently.
Click to expand...
interesting. I never thought of using mb knee. everytime they did f23 I would just be taking another f23 over and over again everytime i was trying to guess when they'd do the f23 and trying to d1 it, let's just say it wasn't really working out with the range. The sups would just space out the d1 everytime I went for it and would do another f23 instantly when I didn't. Hopefully I can use this information to help in the mu
 
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Slavaslave

Slavaslave

Professional Casual
Basic Stupidity said:
interesting. I never thought of using mb knee. everytime they did f23 I would just be taking another f23 over and over again everytime i was trying to guess when they'd do the f23 and trying to d1 it, let's just say it wasn't really working out with the range. The sups would just space out the d1 everytime I went for it and would do another f23 instantly when I didn't. Hopefully I can use this information to help in the mu
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I tested last night and it looks like the only things that beat knee are backdash and d1. Backdash doesn't lead to punish unless you MB the knee and d1 trades most of the time (my timing wasn't perfect).

This is actually pretty huge for that matchup, going to make it a lot easier.
 
Slavaslave

Slavaslave

Professional Casual
Can we talk about the flash matchup? How are you guys dealing with this? Running man gets in for basically free, his d2 is probably the best in the game, and his footsie normals are way better than darkseid.

My strat:

Try to keep him out with lasers, teleport away when running man comes out or try to catch it with a laser. Once he's in though I got nothing aside from MB knee to get him off me.
 
MK Peanuts

MK Peanuts

afk
Slavaslave said:
Can we talk about the flash matchup? How are you guys dealing with this? Running man gets in for basically free, his d2 is probably the best in the game, and his footsie normals are way better than darkseid.

My strat:

Try to keep him out with lasers, teleport away when running man comes out or try to catch it with a laser. Once he's in though I got nothing aside from MB knee to get him off me.
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I've never fought this matchup so I have no good advice. My boyfriend has a Flash so I'll run some sets with him the next chance I get and get back to you.

Just curious, is MB b3 an option against running man? That's the first thing I'd try.
 
Slavaslave

Slavaslave

Professional Casual
MK Peanuts said:
I've never fought this matchup so I have no good advice. My boyfriend has a Flash so I'll run some sets with him the next chance I get and get back to you.

Just curious, is MB b3 an option against running man? That's the first thing I'd try.
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MB b3 will work maybe a couple times on a good player, but the flash I play will bait it well and that's a lot of wasted meter.

I feel like reversal knee is going to be useful in the match because it'll catch those staggers and is plus.

Let me know how your sets go.
 
MK Peanuts

MK Peanuts

afk
Slavaslave said:
MB b3 will work maybe a couple times on a good player, but the flash I play will bait it well and that's a lot of wasted meter.
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What do they use to bait it? Just like, running man stance > run at you > cancel out of the stance > block? I don't really know a ton about Flash but I would assume that's his only option.
 
Slavaslave

Slavaslave

Professional Casual
They can cancel outside it's range and start up offense. Possibly punish if their positioning is perfect. Lucky flashes fastest normal is d1, but the rest are fast enough to negate darkseids footsie (if you can really call it that)

Edit: obviously d1 is fastest it has shortish range though, but is threatening because it's a full block string. His f and b2 strings are relatively slow, but d12 puts him just outside d1 and s2 range so he can punish any buttons that are mid with b2 after d12 is blocked.
 
MK Peanuts

MK Peanuts

afk
Slavaslave said:
Let me know how your sets go.
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Only just got around to this, my weekend was kinda busy.

So Flash's running man stance, I found out you sometimes can hit him with Omega Beam while he's in RMS. As far as I can tell, if he's just holding the stance he'll low profile Omega Beams, but the beams will hit him if he's actually running in the stance or doing one of the followups (except the low). It seems like you can still zone him, you just have to predict when he's going to go into stance and try to hit him with the beams as he's running. I also had some success by jumping backwards when I thought Flash would do RMS and pressing a j3 on the way down.
 
geezy89

geezy89

Weekend Warrior
Hertog said:
What's your go-to punish when you block a very unsafe move like Supergirl's spaceport?
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f23 J3 df3
Meterless, does good damage, and you can easily meterburn the df3 to cash in on more damage if you want. I know f23 d2 b3 j3 df3 is also possible and is meterless, but the timing between the d2 and b3 is pretty tight. Hard for me personally to get it consistently.
 
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