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Darkseid Matchup Discussion

D

Deleted member 5032

Guest
It's still early, but might as well start a thread for discussing matchups as we gain more experience.
 
D

Deleted member 5032

Guest
How are you all handling the Scarecrow matchup? My Dakrseid is still ass, but it felt like Scarecrow kind of shit on Darkseid from anywhere on the screen, since he can just crouch high lasers and TP on reaction. Once you get to the mid/close game, Darkseid has no options that I was able to find. You can't try to space/footsie due to Scarecrow's insane range, you can't try air or teleport shenanigans due to Scarecrow's insane anti-air, and you can't properly punish almost anything else he does. Once in the corner, Darkseid has no great options that I could find against jump-in pressure, especially on wakeup. MB b3 and f3 are ok if you're in range, but Scarecrow has several strings that will break the armor.

By the time I played this long set last night, I had only really memorized a couple of combos and hadn't really messed with trait, so I'm thinking trait has to play a huge part of this matchup, otherwise I honestly have no clue what Darkseid is supposed to do against Scarecrow.
 
AK partyeagle

AK partyeagle

Mortal
I have had the same experience with scarecrow so far (got to play against one solid scarecrow and it was a nightmare) .

Honestly I think his match ups will generally depend on the tools the other characters have , characters like supergirl and scarecrow will be rough because they have better footsies tools AND can punish us for trying to zone very hard.

and frankly we need to find ways to get good players hit soon or I dont see him doing much competitively. I see alot of combos starting with f23 and I dont see that landing anytime soon out side of obvious whiff punishes.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
I personally have not had a single problem with Scarecrow. I actually think he might beat Scarecrow. Sure he can absorb Omega Beams but you can punish Tele with F23 on reaction and he has kind of a hard time dealing with trait. It's not super in Darkseid's favor but I think he might win.
 
D

Deleted member 5032

Guest
Yeah, after grinding out the matchup in practice mode, I can see that his Death Spin is way easier to punish than I had thought. If you're outside it's range and he's trying to use it to cover his advance, it's actually fairly easy to f23 in-between reps to full-combo punish; he doesn't even get to try to meter-burn since you're interrupting the move.

And now that I know how to properly utilize trait, I don't think his d2 will be as much of a problem. It still seems to be pretty rough if you don't have trait or meter, but otherwise it's looking a lot more manageable.
 
D

Deleted member 5032

Guest
Does anyone have any experience with the Deadshot matchup? I haven't fought a strong Deadshot yet, but I'm in practice mode right now testing setups and it's not looking pretty. Even without trait, Deadshot can shoot, then shoot again and duck before Darkseid's reversal reaches him, meaning he can chip and hit us and then completely evade our retaliation. This works for Straight Shot and Trick Shot. If you're absolutely full-screen then you can get out Trait if you time it right, but it's pretty tight. This also doesn't take into consideration his Deadly Assault, which goes under our beams and at -16 is totally unpunishable unless we are right up on him.

Right now, I'm thinking this is going to come down to yolo air-teleport dives (since Deadshot's anti-air is ass) and trying to keep Deadshot in d3 range. Thoughts?
 
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Parasurama

Parasurama

Dragon
karaokelove said:
Does anyone have any experience with the Deadshot matchup? I haven't fought a strong Deadshot yet, but I'm in practice mode right now testing setups and it's not looking pretty. Even without trait, Deadshot can shoot, then shoot again and duck before Darkseid's reversal reaches him, meaning he can chip and hit us and then completely evade our retaliation. This works for Straight Shot and Trick Shot. If you're absolutely full-screen then you can get out Trait if you time it right, but it's pretty tight. This also doesn't take into consideration his Deadly Assault, which goes under our beams and at -16 is totally unpunishable unless we are right up on him.

Right now, I'm thinking this is going to come down to yolo air-teleport dives (since Deadshot's anti-air is ass) and trying to keep Deadshot in d3 range. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I think you are right...air teleport in and mix.... does this mean that Deadshot can outzone Darkseid?
They both have lots of gaps in strings.
 
D

Deleted member 5032

Guest
Parasurama said:
I think you are right...air teleport in and mix.... does this mean that Deadshot can outzone Darkseid?
They both have lots of gaps in strings.
Click to expand...
I mean, so far Darkseid doesn't really seem to be the ultimate zoner he was made out to be. I'd honestly say his zoning is more of an annoyance factor that lets him stall for trait. He only needs about 4 traits and a bit of additional damage to defeat his opponent.
 
AK partyeagle

AK partyeagle

Mortal
proper utilization of his trait is going to be key in so many match ups . zoning deadshot gets alot easier with air lazers MB and trait (I prefer bomb trait since it starts near him and makes the DS player want to move) .

Pig actually had a good match against a scarecrow and it feels like you just gotta be super patient with it. hoping the same is with super girl. I can beat a friends supergirl from time to time but she sure doesnt make it easy.
 
Wavy

Wavy

Block Spammer
Doesn't Darkseid teleport beat out Deadshots zoning? I guess I haven't played a good Deadshot. All the matches I've had so far online have been free. I think there is enough time to summon a demon between shots too. Does Deadshot have enough recovery to shoot and then react to the tele?
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Basically for the Deadshot MU you're going to be doing a LOT of MB Instant Air Omega Beams into Standing Omega beam. The second Omega Beam stuffs anything other than ducking. Once he respects your options after that you go into summoning trait after MB IAOB and teleports. We out zone him because we command respect from our trades. We win every projectile trade period. The goal isn't to kill them with your zoning here (Unless of course they constantly disrespect your options and get blown up for it) the goal is to get the Deadshot player scared to do his zoning so that you have more free reign to do basically whatever you want. I personally love fighting Deadshots, MU feels good to me. Now an MU that DOESNT feel good to me is Aquaman. FTD does everything he needs it to in this MU, he out does us up close. We don't really have our air Tele "lul neutral" shenanigans because he has a GODLIKE anti air. You basically need to get trait out, get in and mix. I'll have to lab it more but I played a really good Aquaman in War of the Gods and he sent me to losers lol. First impression of that is it feels bad.
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
CrazyFingers said:
Now an MU that DOESNT feel good to me is Aquaman. FTD does everything he needs it to in this MU, he out does us up close. We don't really have our air Tele "lul neutral" shenanigans because he has a GODLIKE anti air. You basically need to get trait out, get in and mix. I'll have to lab it more but I played a really good Aquaman in War of the Gods and he sent me to losers lol. First impression of that is it feels bad.
Click to expand...
I have had a similar experience versus Theo.

FTD checks omega beam anywhere on the screen. At mid range, FTD punishes omega beam and vice versa, but EX FTD into trident toss does much more damage than an omega beam punish so the risk versus reward ratio is always in Aquaman's favor. Darkseid has obviously no chance in footsies. In Injustice 1, Zod was able to put an instant aerial force ball on the screen after blocking an FTD, which controlled the match. He was also able to punish an FTD with a 40%+ combo if the Aquaman player became overzealous. Darkseid lacks such options.

Speaking of Darkseid vs. Aquaman, REO played Foxy in an online series. I really believe the video is an accurate description of what the match up looks like at the moment.

 
Parasurama

Parasurama

Dragon
CrazyFingers said:
Basically for the Deadshot MU you're going to be doing a LOT of MB Instant Air Omega Beams into Standing Omega beam. The second Omega Beam stuffs anything other than ducking. Once he respects your options after that you go into summoning trait after MB IAOB and teleports. We out zone him because we command respect from our trades. We win every projectile trade period. The goal isn't to kill them with your zoning here (Unless of course they constantly disrespect your options and get blown up for it) the goal is to get the Deadshot player scared to do his zoning so that you have more free reign to do basically whatever you want. I personally love fighting Deadshots, MU feels good to me. Now an MU that DOESNT feel good to me is Aquaman. FTD does everything he needs it to in this MU, he out does us up close. We don't really have our air Tele "lul neutral" shenanigans because he has a GODLIKE anti air. You basically need to get trait out, get in and mix. I'll have to lab it more but I played a really good Aquaman in War of the Gods and he sent me to losers lol. First impression of that is it feels bad.
Click to expand...
No Swamp Thing?
 
Wavy

Wavy

Block Spammer
Aquaman MU definitely feels way against Darkseid. I've lost more convincingly against him than any other character. Anyone have a feel on what MU feels pretty good in our favor? I've faced a couple Dr. Fates and that felt extremely comfortable personally.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Wavy said:
Aquaman MU definitely feels way against Darkseid. I've lost more convincingly against him than any other character. Anyone have a feel on what MU feels pretty good in our favor? I've faced a couple Dr. Fates and that felt extremely comfortable personally.
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I feel comfortable with most zoning MUs and a good amount of MUs with rushdown characters who have a hard time getting in. Characters who either have the perfect answers for our zoning or can get in really quickly and have a better close up game are our problem.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Sooo, how do I beat this character? While some characters have gotten easier to face the better the MU knowledge and exp, the tougher this MU is getting. What is it that gives you any problems when you face Deadshot? Feels like he just has a better answer for anything I try to do.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
SaltShaker said:
Sooo, how do I beat this character? While some characters have gotten easier to face the better the MU knowledge and exp, the tougher this MU is getting. What is it that gives you any problems when you face Deadshot? Feels like he just has a better answer for anything I try to do.
Click to expand...
You basically have to make some ballsy reads on instant air Omega Beams with air guns and I suggest rarely using low guns unless you are SURE they aren't going to jump because that's a death sentence for Deadshot. When you're in his face you have to make the most of it. Rush him the fuck down and never let up.

ADDITION: Your buttons are a lot better than his, remember that when you're in his face. Only thing you have to really worry about is his D1 and your F1 should do a good job of checking that for sure. B1, as i'm sure you already know, will whiff punish a shit ton on him. Play solid footsies/rushdown when you're in his face and you should be fine. It's just getting that that's the problem.
 
Wavy

Wavy

Block Spammer
The Catwoman MU feels brutal for me. Oh god. I can't tell if its how I'm playing, the game being early, or not knowing the matchup yet. But it just doesnt feel good.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
CrazyFingers said:
You basically have to make some ballsy reads on instant air Omega Beams with air guns and I suggest rarely using low guns unless you are SURE they aren't going to jump because that's a death sentence for Deadshot. When you're in his face you have to make the most of it. Rush him the fuck down and never let up.

ADDITION: Your buttons are a lot better than his, remember that when you're in his face. Only thing you have to really worry about is his D1 and your F1 should do a good job of checking that for sure. B1, as i'm sure you already know, will whiff punish a shit ton on him. Play solid footsies/rushdown when you're in his face and you should be fine. It's just getting that that's the problem.
Click to expand...
Thanks! Some top notch advice. Gonna give it some thought and try some adjustments.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Eldriken said:
I enjoy the fact that Darkseid does well against Deadshot.

However, I have once again picked a character that sucks against Aquaman. =|
Click to expand...
the eternal struggle. that MU is the worst one i've bumped into so far man. Like i'm thinking about picking up Deadshot for it, it's that bad.
 
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