Countering the Tele Cancel; Aerial Cancel lack of options to counter

[BuffRaiden]

Haven't seen this addressed properly in it's own thread.

So the the mistake I see a lot of people make when trying to punish the tele cancel is mashing d1. Problem is some characters with stubby pokes like Kabal for instance will get wiff punished if the Scorpion player uses b14. I had to adjust and start using f22 or f4.

Your best bet is to use your fasted mid. Even Cetrion's f2 will work if you read the cancel. They are minus off b14 which is the string you most often see tele canceled.

Now the broken stuff. Over the last few days this site has pretty much outed the aerial teleport as a broken neutral killing tool if Scorpion decides to forward jump. If you make any attempt at anti airing with s1 or d2, you will most likely eat a full combo of mb teleport. So the answer is block right? Tele cancel... now what? Make the read? I don' think so. In theory the grounded tele cancel leaves you in a better position to continue offense, but the aerial tele cancel shuts down your options almost entirely.

In this game THROWS have mid properties if you attempt to poke out of them (REO discusses this in his podcast). So you can't poke, which most players, even good ones, do on instinct.

A tool or character is broken if it eclipses all other available to counter it.

While Geras, Erron, Sonya, and Jaqui are super strong and OP (Geras throw loops), you still have effective options that will give you your turn back.

 

[GothamInGray]

One-track mind?

 

[Circus]

During the beta, the cancel depleted the entire defense bar. I wouldn't be surprised if they make the cancel deplete the entire bar again after the EVO patch.

I think it'd be a decent change. At the moment, Scorpion can just do the cancel and then walk backwards until his 1 bar of defense gauge comes back.

Whatever they decide on, I just hope they don't absolutely butcher the character. He's great, but still manageable to fight against.

I'm sure NRS will make the right move.
We just have to wait until after the first tournament season before we see any changes.

 

[NaughtySenpai]

Have you tried reading your opponent's tendencies?
That's the answer to every "mixup".

If your definition of shit being broken was true I should lose 50% of my Scorpion mirrors and every encounter I have with Geras, yet I still win most Scorpion mirrors, you know why?

I'm playing a fighting game while you play a thought experiment that is not grounded in reality. The Scorpion player cannot make the right decision every time unless you let him.

You know why some people are better than others at poker? Because people are terrible at being random and those guys know how to exploit that.


I could argue like you and say tele cancel is the worst move in the game because if I try to whiff punish them after walking back, they just stand there and whiff punish my whiff punish. If I go for a d1, the just walked back and whiff punished me, if I go for a throw they neutral duck and d2 me and now I don't have meter to break away and eat 300 damage.

This is a fighting game, not a fucking equation. Every play has a counterplay.
It's like a debate where you try to prove to your opponent that his argument is trash.

Start trying to play the actual game instead of whining to NRS to make you "better" at it.

 

[xKMMx]

Have you tried reading your opponent's tendencies?
That's the answer to every "mixup".

If your definition of shit being broken was true I should lose 50% of my Scorpion mirrors and every encounter I have with Geras, yet I still win most Scorpion mirrors, you know why?

I'm playing a fighting game while you play a thought experiment that is not grounded in reality. The Scorpion player cannot make the right decision every time unless you let him.

You know why some people are better than others at poker? Because people are terrible at being random and those guys know how to exploit that.


I could argue like you and say tele cancel is the worst move in the game because if I try to whiff punish them after walking back, they just stand there and whiff punish my whiff punish. If I go for a d1, the just walked back and whiff punished me, if I go for a throw they neutral duck and d2 me and now I don't have meter to break away and eat 300 damage.

This is a fighting game, not a fucking equation. Every play has a counterplay.
It's like a debate where you try to prove to your opponent that his argument is trash.

Start trying to play the actual game instead of whining to NRS to make you "better" at it.

I don't mean to piggy back but this guy kinda has hit the nail on the head. No offense to the OP but alllllllll of your posts are about why this game is broken for one reason or another and it doesn't seem in anyway like you even enjoy this game.

 

[OzzFoxx]

I didn’t think consensus was that TP and/or air TP is broken, just that it changes the game into a boring and tedious one. Holding an opponent in teleport hostage is definitely a losing strategy for the scorpion player when the opponent has recognized that this is their strategy. Keeping a close eye on scorpions meter is usually a big tell towards when the cancel will come in my experience.

The thing that sucks is you have to play like aquaman against this, regardless of how offensive your character is meant to be played. It’s stupid I’m standing at mid-to-far distance with jacqui on purpose, but it works.

 

[Wigy]

No moves should hold you hostage to blocking like that during jump ins except divekicks.

Reborn is just an issue in this game. Mid teleport and teleport cancels is just dumb.

 

[seanpon]

During the beta, the cancel depleted the entire defense bar. I wouldn't be surprised if they make the cancel deplete the entire bar again after the EVO patch.

I think it'd be a decent change. At the moment, Scorpion can just do the cancel and then walk backwards until his 1 bar of defense gauge comes back.

Whatever they decide on, I just hope they don't absolutely butcher the character. He's great, but still manageable to fight against.

I'm sure NRS will make the right move.
We just have to wait until after the first tournament season before we see any changes.

He's not really "manageable" to fight against. He's the most troll character in the game, the fact that he can just keep jumping backwards and the majority of the cast can't do anything about it. The second he sees you throw a move he teleports and hits you with a full combo. Also between his teleport and spear he becomes a nuisance to fight against. There is a reason why everyone in the kombat league keeps picking scorpion... he's the most carry hard online character for any player to pick up and win. Teleport cancel needs to be two bars and make teleport unable to amp on block or whiff.

 

[seanpon]

Have you tried reading your opponent's tendencies?
That's the answer to every "mixup".

If your definition of shit being broken was true I should lose 50% of my Scorpion mirrors and every encounter I have with Geras, yet I still win most Scorpion mirrors, you know why?

I'm playing a fighting game while you play a thought experiment that is not grounded in reality. The Scorpion player cannot make the right decision every time unless you let him.

You know why some people are better than others at poker? Because people are terrible at being random and those guys know how to exploit that.


I could argue like you and say tele cancel is the worst move in the game because if I try to whiff punish them after walking back, they just stand there and whiff punish my whiff punish. If I go for a d1, the just walked back and whiff punished me, if I go for a throw they neutral duck and d2 me and now I don't have meter to break away and eat 300 damage.

This is a fighting game, not a fucking equation. Every play has a counterplay.
It's like a debate where you try to prove to your opponent that his argument is trash.

Start trying to play the actual game instead of whining to NRS to make you "better" at it.

I love it when scorpion players try to defend his teleport or teleport cancels. Their response is always "git good".

 

[asddgd]

Oh my god, fake the button press and punish him for teleporting

 

[BuffRaiden]

The thread is meantime to give advice to players struggling with the grounded teleport.

I see a lot of people make the right read but use the wrong tools to counter it.

And when a scorpion starts jumping with the life lead. It’s basically lights out. It’s a fully screen 50 50 between cancel and teleport.

I play the reborn variation and knowing this I steam roll most people.

Watching scar beat foxy in the reverse 3-0 was shameful.

 

[BuffRaiden]

Oh my god, fake the button press and punish him for teleporting

Next time just write I’m a troll.

 

[Braindead]

Get over it already. It's a 50/50. If you read a cancel you can punish, if you read a full teleport block and punish. Just another 50/50. Dumb good but get over it already with all those threads smh.

Not a single character lacks options to blow up that 50/50 if they guess correctly.

 

[BuffRaiden]

I didn’t think consensus was that TP and/or air TP is broken, just that it changes the game into a boring and tedious one. Holding an opponent in teleport hostage is definitely a losing strategy for the scorpion player when the opponent has recognized that this is their strategy. Keeping a close eye on scorpions meter is usually a big tell towards when the cancel will come in my experience.

The thing that sucks is you have to play like aquaman against this, regardless of how offensive your character is meant to be played. It’s stupid I’m standing at mid-to-far distance with jacqui on purpose, but it works.

There’s an entire thread in the competitive discussion about jump back teleport.

A teleport literally comboed me out of an air born superman today...

The air teleport is what really needs to go.

 

[asddgd]

Next time just write I’m a troll.

Because it works?

 

[BuffRaiden]

Get over it already. It's a 50/50. If you read a cancel you can punish, if you read a full teleport block and punish. Just another 50/50. Dumb good but get over it already with all those threads smh.

Not a single character lacks options to blow up that 50/50 if they guess correctly.

Full screen 50/50’s are a thing of the past. But thanks for outing yourself as the worst kind of scorpion defender.

 

[Wigy]

Get over it already. It's a 50/50. If you read a cancel you can punish, if you read a full teleport block and punish. Just another 50/50. Dumb good but get over it already with all those threads smh.

Not a single character lacks options to blow up that 50/50 if they guess correctly.

Lol frost can barely punish that shit.

 

[Braindead]

Lol frost can barely punish that shit.

Because she needs the step forward before 13?

 

[asddgd]

Literally make the right read and punish, if he cancels he literally has to eat a full combo. Youre like so salty, ive literally never had much trouble against scorpion players

 

[Braindead]

Full screen 50/50’s are a thing of the past. But thanks for outing yourself as the worst kind of scorpion defender.

Git gud scrub

 

[Wigy]

Because she needs the step forward before 13?

Mix that with having to delay the punish for mb or non MB and it having an especially derpy hitbox on one side.

Also that won't reach reborn tele cancel.

So guess on the jump in then guess 3 ways on the teleport.

He gets this from a jump. Which is free af cause the threat of teleport. Seeing the issue here.

Frost gets absolutely butchered by scorpion cause of one special.

 

[BuffRaiden]

Git gud scrub

I hope your parents write you out of the will and quote this as their reason.

 

[Groove Heaven]

"bro it's fine, just always have the correct option on deck against this character that completely negates the rules of neutral and turns every situation into a bunch of mixups in a row"
-scorp players

For what it's worth, I know there are answers and I know Scorpion isn't truly "broken," but goddamn is he just unfun to play against, especially online. Just for my own personal enjoyment of the game, I can't wait until he gets nerfed post-EVO.

 

[Braindead]

I hope you parents write you out of the will and quote this as their reason.

That's actually a pretty good comeback

 

[asddgd]

I like seeing him picked online, usually goes in my favor and i dont have to fight someone better. I play baraka, imma punish