Counter Hits. Yay or Nay

[IrishMantis]

If there is one common FG mechanic NRS hasn't introduced yet as far as i know (Edit: in there 2D Games)

is Traditional Counter Hits
as vague as that may be

for those who dont know i what i mean by Counter hits its when you interrupt or armor hit through someones attack creating Unique Properties,
whether that be Extra Damage, some kind of pop up, or maybe given the original hit an untechable knockdown.

For example,
in SFxT Kings Shoulder charge has a hit of armor, if it hits normals it just knocks them down but when it interrupts the Ops attack it creates a Wall bounce so you got a juggle of it

but typically a counter hit would just do extra damage

Q.Would it work for Some normals to have Counter hits Properties?
IMO. I'd say a safe bet would stick to special moves, but yes they could i'd assume they would not be Low/OHs for balance reasons, Tekken games have them but they are usually slow and plus theres alot more Scope in 3D Games.

Q.How would it work in MKX?
IMO Same way it works in other FGs, but i think MKX can use MB to create Uniqueness, for example say Jax does MB Flying Punch, without counter it would just be your normal punch into Spine Buster, but if it Counters the Op, the MB would go from Flying Punch to grabbing them by the leg and bouncing off the ground for a pop up.
or could just be traditional like if Raidens Superman does 9% on counter it could do 13%
bla bla im just spit balling here

Q.Would Punishing at Whiff Recovery with a counter hittable special count as a counter hit?
IMO thats alot of counting lol, i dont know how to answer that one i guess it would, maybe depending on duration.

But in anyway you get the point so what do you think Yay or Nay

Edit: Plus it will bring a whole new Meta to the Footsie game


Once theres no Critical Hits am i happy man, which from my understanding basically certain attacks do more dmg randomly every now and again

 

[Eddy Wang]

I would say yay, but the reward is something to look up.

I would suggest, whiff punishes, or punishes would give oponnent less meter, counter would give the attacker slightly more damage.

 

[IrishMantis]

I would say yay, but the reward is something to look up.

I would suggest, whiff punishes, or punishes would give oponnent less meter, counter would give the attacker slightly more damage.

Wow didn't take about the Less Meter thing wow, Sick Idea man


Double Edit: Actually Scratch that Meter drain Idea, thats too much

 

[Eddy Wang]

Wow didn't take about the Less Meter thing wow, Sick Idea man

Edit.Even a complete Meter Drain would sick (maybe too gimmicky?) so it will make the Op think twice about constantly throwing extra safe attacks, but i think it should be doable on certain player attacks

Double Edit: Actually Scratch that Meter drain Idea, thats too much

An entire meter drain is just too much, as the oponnent takes damage, it builds meter, whiff punish damage would allow the combo to build slightly less meter so they would break a little late than regular meter build for breaker.

RT edit: indeed

 

[IrishMantis]

An entire meter drain is just too much, as the oponnent takes damage, it builds meter, whiff punish damage would allow the combo to build slightly less meter so they would break a little late than regular meter build for breaker.

RT edit: indeed

Yeah lol, soon as i wrote that i slapped myself, but your seen Less to no Meter build on whiff punish's, i like that idea for Counter aswel, but either way Sick

Maybe if there was a seperate lets say 2 bar Breaker gauge they build that up by being hit only (Maybe Slighly with chip dmg)

 

[Eddy Wang]

Yeah lol, soon as i wrote that i slapped myself, but your seen Less to no Meter build on whiff punish's, i like that idea for Counter aswel, but either way Sick

Maybe if there was a seperate lets say 2 bar Breaker gauge they build that up by being hit only (Maybe Slighly with chip dmg)

I think that even with the current 3 levels bar, it would add more deph, players would avoid counters and whiff punishes like a plague, so any kind of attack would be more capitalized instead of just throwing out there, due the risk of getting punish on whiff or countered.

 

[Alien Substance]

Actually, I think MK: Deception and Armageddon had counter hits.

(Screenshot of MK: Unchained, a port of Deception for the Playstation Portable)

Notice the three little bars for each fighter, beside the timer? I remember reading in some in-game tutorial that if a kombatant is attacked while his/her red bar is glowing (while attacking), then he/she will recieve more damage if they are hit out of their attack/recovery. I remember because the hits create a little blip of red light and the opponent recieves more damage than usual when that happens.

Anyway, I think counter hits would be a neat addition, but I lived just fine without them; I don't mind either way. Though the "less meter when countered" thing seems a bit overboard, but that's just me.

 

[JTB123]

I wouldn't be completely opposed to it, one of the main reasons I find Tekken enjoyable. But I'm not sure how it would integrate into MK.

 

[IrishMantis]

Actually, I think MK: Deception and Armageddon had counter hits.

(Screenshot of MK: Unchained, a port of Deception for the Playstation Portable)

Notice the three little bars for each fighter, beside the timer? I remember reading in some in-game tutorial that if a kombatant is attacked while his/her red bar is glowing (while attacking), then he/she will recieve more damage if they are hit out of their attack/recovery. I remember because the hits create a little blip of red light and the opponent recieves more damage than usual when that happens.

Anyway, I think counter hits would be a neat addition, but I lived just fine without them; I don't mind either way. Though the "less meter when countered" thing seems a bit overboard, but that's just me.

Yeah i deleted taht idea completely yea ur Right they did, extra DMG??? yeah well then i should edit that part

 

[IrishMantis]

I wouldn't be completely opposed to it, one of the main reasons I find Tekken enjoyable. But I'm not sure how it would integrate into MK.

They have it SF i think

theydeg had it SFcT where it work out well, just keep at specials to make skillful than guessing since most normals are too fast to see

but they could work in some normals

lets say Subs 224, the the two Ice swords and the kick,
and lets say theres a tiny 5-6 frame gap in-between 22 and 4 you could interrupt
so since its a big execution u want to be a risk,
so lets the 4 in that string is a CH, so it leaves the Op in a stun state or something like that?

Vote a Yay in, we can out yay them god damn nay sayers

 

[bettyswallaux]

i just want a more balanced less wonky MK 9. Thats all.

 

[IrishMantis]

i just want a more balanced less wonky MK 9. Thats all.

lol. thats asking too much

 

[Rathalos]

I think every fighting game in the history of fighting games has had counter hits, except MK.

Even Tao Feng has counter hits.

 

[MKF30]

@Alien Substance are you a chick? Just curious.

Anyway, for the topic not sure if I do or not...I don't want a DOA or Tekken like game here. I want an MK game, maybe if it's limited. I liked MK 9 how very few characters had counter moves or parry's. I'd like it to stay that way honestly. Bring back breakers, throw techs and it'll be fine. I don't want to see every other character having a counter move.

 

[IrishMantis]

@Alien Substance are you a chick? Just curious.

Anyway, for the topic not sure if I do or not...I don't want a DOA or Tekken like game here. I want an MK game, maybe if it's limited. I liked MK 9 how very few characters had counter moves or parry's. I'd like it to stay that way honestly. Bring back breakers, throw techs and it'll be fine. I don't want to see every other character having a counter move.

Who in MK had a Counter?

 

[FrothyOmen]

I'm down. Sounds like it could be cool.

 

[MKF30]

Who in MK had a Counter?

Liu Kang had a counter move, Cyber Sub had an ice parry, Smoke had a projectile counter move, Cage had a counter Xray. Also, in MK A everyone had a parry and MK DA had reversals(some characters had.)

 

[IrishMantis]

@Alien Substance are you a chick? Just curious.

Anyway, for the topic not sure if I do or not...I don't want a DOA or Tekken like game here. I want an MK game, maybe if it's limited. I liked MK 9 how very few characters had counter moves or parry's. I'd like it to stay that way honestly. Bring back breakers, throw techs and it'll be fine. I don't want to see every other character having a counter move.

Altough technically they are counters

in FGs there just Parry a Counter is when you Interrupt there attack

 

[MKF30]

Altough technically they are counters

in FGs there just Parry a Counter is when you Interrupt there attack

So you're talking more reversals and parrying in between combo strings(you could actually do this in MK: DA And MKA believe it or not. At first thought you just meant countering moves.

 

[VenomX-90]

Counter hit like in MK Vs DCU? Idk I guess breaker and counter seems similar to me, if they add it to MKX I guess they can see how it works.

 

[IrishMantis]

Sure you are....I was actually going to ask if you were female that plays Mk on xbox but that's ok, besides other dude said you were male.



So you're talking more reversals and parrying in between combo strings(you could actually do this in MK: DA And MKA believe it or not. At first thought you just meant countering moves.

I can see how your getting confused

-A parry is like guessing where gonna hit you high/low when you guess right you got a small animation like a throw usually, you not interrupting a hit with a parry

-A Reversal, would be after you blocked a move, you would use that Reversal to punish, again not interrupting a Move

-Than a Counter is a move that usually in 2d game have armor that soke through the hit, and do usually extra dmg or a pop up

Go to 4.46-5.40 and your looking at King shoulder attack, notice how when it normally hits it does nothing, but when it counter hits it bounces them off the wall
the only thing confusing about this video is in that game when you charge up it will always be a counter, but the wall bounce happens if the other ops trys to hit him at the same time
A

 

[Rathalos]

Sure you are....I was actually going to ask if you were female that plays Mk on xbox but that's ok, besides other dude said you were male.



So you're talking more reversals and parrying in between combo strings(you could actually do this in MK: DA And MKA believe it or not. At first thought you just meant countering moves.

A counter hit is not a move or really anything you activate.

All it is, is when you hit someone during the start up of one of their moves.

Like say, in MK9, if you D1 someone just as they are starting the animation of their D1, your D1 would count as a counter hit. (though obviously it doesn't since MK doesn't have counter hits, this is just an example)

So if you D1 did like 8% damage normally, if it hits as a counter hit it would do 10% damage.

In some games, mostly 3D ones, sometimes moves have extra properties if they hit as a counter. Like say a normal that would normally just knock them away, if it hits as a counter would cause a launch state.

That's it, it's not a very complicated mechanic, or anything fancy. Just you do more damage if you hit someone in their start up frames.

 

[MKF30]

I can see how your getting confused

-A parry is like guessing where gonna hit you high/low when you guess right you got a small animation like a throw usually, you not interrupting a hit with a parry

-A Reversal, would be after you blocked a move, you would use that Reversal to punish, again not interrupting a Move

-Than a Counter is a move that usually in 2d game have armor that soke through the hit, and do usually extra dmg or a pop up

Go to 4.46-5.40 and your looking at King shoulder attack, notice how when it normally hits it does nothing, but when it counter hits it bounces them off the wall
the only thing confusing about this video is in that game when you charge up it will always be a counter, but the wall bounce happens if the other ops trys to hit him at the same time
A

I get what it is..just saying this is mk, not sf or tekken so dont see the need for it if they offer other defensive tools for the player like parries, command moves or reversals or breakers. Thats why i was saying, mka had them with parries you could counter in mid c ombo which is the closest thing that mk has had to what you refer to.

i think for 3d games and sf its fitting, mk not so much.

A counter hit is not a move or really anything you activate.

All it is, is when you hit someone during the start up of one of their moves.

Like say, in MK9, if you D1 someone just as they are starting the animation of their D1, your D1 would count as a counter hit. (though obviously it doesn't since MK doesn't have counter hits, this is just an example)

So if you D1 did like 8% damage normally, if it hits as a counter hit it would do 10% damage.

In some games, mostly 3D ones, sometimes moves have extra properties if they hit as a counter. Like say a normal that would normally just knock them away, if it hits as a counter would cause a launch state.

That's it, it's not a very complicated mechanic, or anything fancy. Just you do more damage if you hit someone in their start up frames.

Right, But am not sure mk really needs that all im saying, its a mutual tech more or for vasic attacks. I dont think mk really needs it honestly, imo.

Just answering the topic based off the wording since 'counters' can be taken a few different ways.

 

[RoGE]

I think moves that give you different properties on counter hit would be interesting, for example a character can have a gut punch attack which gives you a small combo but on counter hit it puts them in a crumpled state, giving you a whole new set of combo possibilities.

 

[Rathalos]

Right, But am not sure mk really needs that all im saying, its a mutual tech more or for vasic attacks. I dont think mk really needs it honestly, imo.

Just answering the topic based off the wording since 'counters' can be taken a few different ways.

It's not an essential game defining mechanic, MK will be just fine with out it.
But at the same time, there is no real reason not to have it, there is no downside to them, it only adds a little bit of depth.

It could also be used to help fix one of MK9's problems, useless strings. Lots of characters had strings or normals that just had no use what so ever, they could give these strings powerful counter hit properties to make them a viable option on a good read. Give players a large tool kit.