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Match-Up Discussion - Kano Coach Steve Match Up Chart (Tentative)

Derptile

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
FOREVER EL1TE said:
That's the thing, no one is worried about the mu, loses because they don't know. Dualist wins evo, then gets nerfed
:DOGE but fr tho. I don't think nano beats dualist kang
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Nah, it probably goes like this.

Kano footsies(All variations)>>>Dualist Footsies.
Kano Zoning(Cybernetic)>>>Cutthroat/Commando>>Dualist Zoning.
Kano Mobility(All variations)>>Dualist mobility.
Kano Mixups(Cutthroat)>>>Dualist Mixups

Dualist Rushdown>Cutthroat>Cybernetic
Dualist Oki>Cutthroat>>Cybernetic

Dualist excels when he fights characters that have weaker defense or footsies, and Kano is definitely not a character that's lacking in either of those.
 
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
The rule of thumb with Dualist MU's general is to minus 1 from the DF mu. Anyone who goes even with DF will beat Dualist for example.
 
C88 Zombieekiler

C88 Zombieekiler

Up and coming sub zero
Phosferrax said:
Being serious. Dualist is a poverty DF; zones and pressures worse than DF, also in footsies does significantly less damage.

Why would it ever do better than DF? If it got mb bicycle kick it would be legit, or if DF gets nerfed.
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do you play df and dualist?
 
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
C88 Zombieekiler said:
do you play df and dualist?
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Yes.

And you know when Elite is talking of dropping him that there is a real problem. Sucks cus he's one of my favorite variations.

It really is black and white. Dualist has a decent corner game, but even it is more gimmicky then DF.
 
C88 Zombieekiler

C88 Zombieekiler

Up and coming sub zero
Phosferrax said:
Yes.

And you know when Elite is talking of dropping him that there is a real problem. Sucks cus he's one of my favorite variations.

It really is black and white. Dualist has a decent corner game, but even it is more gimmicky then DF.
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yeah i was just checking because people on this site like to go on what characters are like on paper without having any experience with them what so ever
 
FOREVER EL1TE

FOREVER EL1TE

Noob
Phosferrax said:
Yes.

And you know when Elite is talking of dropping him that there is a real problem. Sucks cus he's one of my favorite variations.

It really is black and white. Dualist has a decent corner game, but even it is more gimmicky then DF.
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Naw man I was just playing, I play my characters based on if I like them or not. IDC if they're bad. If I find that character fun, im playing it.
 
Zatoichi

Zatoichi

Fabulous Goofball
I'd like to know the Kitana match-up if possible please.

Also, completely agree that Commando is the best variation to fight Mileena with. Kano's 4f parry really shuts her down, you can even choke Mileena out of her Overhead starter, it's hilarious.
 
MrInsaynne

MrInsaynne

PG Coach Steve
Zatoichi said:
I'd like to know the Kitana match-up if possible please.

Also, completely agree that Commando is the best variation to fight Mileena with. Kano's 4f parry really shuts her down, you can even choke Mileena out of her Overhead starter, it's hilarious.
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Yes vs Mileena you are correct that's why I don't think it's that good. Everything can be high parried lolol. With Kitana you need extreme patience and just wait for that one chance to get in and stay there. It can be sort of frustrating (I actually wanted to say it was 4-6 in her favor) but it's not bad when Kano is in at all
 
thlityoursloat

thlityoursloat

kick kick
6-4 vs Cassie and Lao? Cassie's b1 completely craps all of Kano's footsie tools. Sure he can zone her but once she's in Kano is as good as minced meat.
 
Dean

Dean

On The Grind
I really want to see more of your Commando, Steve.

I play primarily Cyber, some MU are super hard to win, I mean, I have to put on my big boy pants, go to work with my A+++ game, pray for a little luck, and play an almost flawless game to win against some of these MU's against good people.

Cassie
Lao
Quan Chi
Predator
Shinnok

These characters specifically are ruining my life.

I've tried Commando and I hate the feel of it, mainly because I've never been a big command throw based character. So that transition is a nightmare for me.

With that said. I'm a hard worker, I lab A LOT and I'm willing to figure it out but I'm not very good at command throw inputs in general, let alone you basically have to learn a whole new strategy with Commando.

So any generalized (or in depth) tips on that variation, transition, anything. Would be helpful.

I hope to see and learn anyway I can from you on this variation and MU specific adv with it.
 
D

Diaphone

Noob
I agree with most of this. You have to remember...whenever you cherry pick MUs like this (your choice in variation VS opponent) things are always goign to look way better MU spread wise.

If this chart was commando or cybernetic ONLY, you would see way more 5-5 and 4-6s. Kano's variations work out so that he can cover his own bad MUs.
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
MrInsaynne said:
Scorpion: Since he got nerfed. He lost his good pressure and now it's to your benefit to just be mad disrespectful with armored up balls and command grabs( if you opt to play commando. He doesn't have the best wake up options so you can continue rushing him down. If he burns the bar, fine, you're building more meter for more armor. His fast buttons are really negative too (d1, d4, etc) so that's also definitely something to keep in mind. In Commando you can keep going for D4 tick grabs and the only armor move you have to worry about is leg sweep which gives him no real frame advantage or any advantageous position. So he really just burnt a bar and didn't get much for it. Don't respect Scorpion and you'll be fine that's pretty much the point I'm getting at.
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I don't have a ton of experience vs Kano but I just want to point out a few things. I agree that Scorpions wake ups aren't the best but his teleport does lead to good damage into a standing reset. You're right about D1 being super negative and the cancel advantage is no good as well. When it comes to pokes like d3 and d4 though (In Hellfire) Scorpion has the option to safely cancel into flame aura which counters any attempt to press the advantage unless of course you use armor. As for his take down it actually leaves him at around +5 frames, the frame data in the game that says -5 is totally wrong. Still it's only about 15% damage but it does add the benefit of a knockdown and I think it's a bit of a better option than you gave it credit for. As for pressure, Scorpions main options rely around him baiting counter pokes into hellfire imo since FBC's have been nerfed. Once the flame aura is respected it opens up other options with FBC pressure. Things like 214 fbc d3/d4 flame aura work great against counter pokes and the best thing is the flame aura whiffs so it becomes very hard to punish. F3 cancelled into flame aura also can not be counter poked and can be mixed with FBC when respected.

Honestly in the small amount of Kano match up experience I've had I like Ninjitsu best. F2 is the perfect counter for a bad d4 and leads to 34% meterless into a standing reset that can put Scorpion at the perfect range to whiff punish again and can also beat armored options with f2. Kano (from what I know) can only punish f2 from very close range but I will say that if blocked he Scorpion does face the threat of Kano getting in and usually has to take a risk like back dashing/jumping or armor/teleport to avoid the situation. I feel if Scorpion plays a solid footsie game the match could be even but I'd need some more experience to be sure about it.
 
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NHDR

NHDR

Noob
What I'd like to know is how much of your chart is based on character tools versus your own comfort with the match.
 
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