Chip damage on normals in Injustice?

[PoweredbyProtein]

Sure. I don't think it's stupid because, while there are things to counteract excessive defense, I think this promotes faster gameplay and more knowledge of the characters.

Other games also have mechanics that promote faster gameplay and knowledge of character (look at Guilty Gear, MBAACC, Blazblue CP, etc.). So if we know that there are interesting ways to promote these things, why implement a lazy mechanic that almost eliminates comebacks, one of the hypest things about FGs?

 

[Compbros]

Other games also have mechanics that promote faster gameplay and knowledge of character (look at Guilty Gear, MBAACC, Blazblue CP, etc.). So if we know that there are interesting ways to promote these things, why implement a lazy mechanic that almost eliminates comebacks, one of the hypest things about FGs?

Those are the style of those games, they're generally fast games that has a ton of movement options to open opponents up, SSFIV feels verrry slow at times. If you're a Guile player and you read your opponent correctly you can sit comfortably in the corner while throwing things out.

Just using this as an example, 2:55 to 3:03

Spoiler

He crouch blocks most of Ryu's offense and he can do it while waiting for an opening. Kevin throws out normals to keep Ryu from fireballing. Diago is just poking back but, if there were chip on normals, he'd be trying to overwhelm him with strings and Kevin would be forced to know when he can counter Ryu's offense on top of trying to find a way out of the corner so he doesn't get pinned down. A little before the 2:55 mark, if Die had teched that throw then Diago couldn't even throw out chip fireballs because he may eat an Ultra and then they'd be close to the same amount of health in an instant.


There have been tooooooons of comebacks in MK9, even when people have had a magic pixel they've come back and won.

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

Those are the style of those games, they're generally fast games that has a ton of movement options to open opponents up, SSFIV feels verrry slow at times. If you're a Guile player and you read your opponent correctly you can sit comfortably in the corner while throwing things out.

Just using this as an example, 2:55 to 3:03

Spoiler

He crouch blocks most of Ryu's offense and he can do it while waiting for an opening. Kevin throws out normals to keep Ryu from fireballing. Diago is just poking back but, if there were chip on normals, he'd be trying to overwhelm him with strings and Kevin would be forced to know when he can counter Ryu's offense on top of trying to find a way out of the corner so he doesn't get pinned down. A little before the 2:55 mark, if Die had teched that throw then Diago couldn't even throw out chip fireballs because he may eat an Ultra and then they'd be close to the same amount of health in an instant.


There have been tooooooons of comebacks in MK9, even when people have had a magic pixel they've come back and won.

I've already agreed with you a while back that it would be fine for SF, but Injustice instead SF and there are better mechanics that could have been used a mechanic besides chip normals.

At important majors, and as frequent as other games? I only played MK9 (only watched REO's Kabal at majors and EVO in general with others) for lols and never took it seriously. Please post some examples.

 

[Treadmill]

I don't think chip on normals will be as big a deal as you guys will believe.

In all honesty, there's additional defensive mechanics that are really not even talked about. Nobody has even thought about how ridiculously good the backdashing in this game is. Or how pokes COMBO into specials now. Or how you won't get randomly tagged with shit walking backwards. And that's on top of the pushblock.

I'd be more surprised if pressure in this game is WEAK compared to MK9. And jumping doesn't look very strong either...VERY floaty stuff.

Wait pokes make combo links into specials! I didn't know that...that's a huge gameplay mechanic nobody is discussing. It's hard to get real info around with all the "gimme raven....wait raven is ugly..." Bullshit.

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

Wait pokes make combo links into specials! I didn't know that...that's a huge gameplay mechanic nobody is discussing.

Because it exists in like every FG I can think of. It's not that out there.

 

[RYX]

I think the defense mechanics that are universal(Pushblock) as well as the ones that come individually ( Cyborg's zipline move for example) make chip damage on normals and strings okay. There's just so many options for the characters that clearly play defensively/look like strong zonersthat the game SHOULD reward aggressive players with getting chip(they'll probably get meter too).

More or less seems a matter of choosing the right spots to counter-attack as well as if you're using meter to get out or stay in if you're the aggressor.

 

[Wildabeast]

Hard to say, I think in MK it was necessary because of the way pressure works. If there were no chip damage on normals it would be much harder to open people up due to most high/ low mix ups being easily fuzzy guarded and cross ups not being in the game. This game is back to block so obviously things are going to be a little different.

 

[PND i2 Gaug3]

Or how pokes COMBO into specials now.

WHEN WHERE WHO i need information

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[PoweredbyProtein]

I think the defense mechanics that are universal(Pushblock) as well as the ones that come individually ( Cyborg's zipline move for example) make chip damage on normals and strings okay. There's just so many options for the characters that clearly play defensively/look like strong zonersthat the game SHOULD reward aggressive players with getting chip(they'll probably get meter too).

More or less seems a matter of choosing the right spots to counter-attack as well as if you're using meter to get out or stay in if you're the aggressor.

What about those that aren't of the zoning type? They'll always have positions where they will have to block and take chip on normals more often. Unless there's some kind of special guarding, at a cost, like Guilty Gear or Blazblue to stop chip damage, I can't bring myself to like chip on normals.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Everyone fighting for chip on normals plays probably only MK.

when you have to adjust for a cross up... it makes it much harder to block. It also allows for much better normal strings with lows and OH

MK is so watered down... because the block button is the laziest blocking technique in terms of skill. That is why there is chip damage on normals in mk... because you aren't really doing anything but holding a button....

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

Hard to say, I think in MK it was necessary because of the way pressure works. If there were no chip damage on normals it would be much harder to open people up due to most high/ low mix ups being easily fuzzy guarded and cross ups not being in the game. This game is back to block so obviously things are going to be a little different.

Didn't think about it that way, but at the same time it wasn't necessary. It could have done what games like P4U, Guilty Gear, BlazBlue, SCV, etc. did by either having you're guard at broken if you're blocking to much, allowing a free combo of your choosing, or putting you in some kind of negative status.

 

[RYX]

What about those that aren't of the zoning type? They'll always have positions where they will have to block and take chip on normals more often. Unless there's some kind of special guarding, at a cost, like Guilty Gear or Blazblue to stop chip damage, I can't bring myself to like chip on normals.

I honestly can't give a legitimate answer. The only time I've played a non-zoner seriously was Painwheel in Skullgirls(and I'm bad at it) :s

I'm gonna say armor works a lot for these types, as well as generally faster normals(with the exception of the big characters who have truckloads of armor) but don't take my word for it

 

[Compbros]

I've already agreed with you a while back that it would be fine for SF, but Injustice instead SF and there are better mechanics that could have been used a mechanic besides chip normals.

At important majors, and as frequent as other games? I only played MK9 (only watched REO's Kabal at majors and EVO in general with others) for lols and never took it seriously. Please post some examples.

Like what?


You're asking me to recall several times that a round in a game has come down to a sliver of health and a comeback. That's a pretty daunting task.....still, I literally went to TeamSp00ky's channel and clicked on videos at random before I got tired of it.

Some of these are a any hit and it's over, others are a two hit string or strong enough special would end it.

Spoiler

7:19

12:03 and 14:30

3:40

5:35

5:50

5 of 7 videos I clicked on and one video had two.


Edit:

Everyone fighting for chip on normals plays probably only MK.

I have already said I play several fighters and that I prefer chip on normals for straight forward fighters.

 

[Wildabeast]

Didn't think about it that way, but at the same time it wasn't necessary. It could have done what games like P4U, Guilty Gear, BlazBlue, SCV, etc. did by either having you're guard at broken if you're blocking to much, allowing a free combo of your choosing, or putting you in some kind of negative status.

True, although an argument could be made that characters like Cage or Kabal would be even more ridiculous than they are now if something like a guard break were in the game.

 

[Robotic Shark]

I gotta ask is Chip Dmg really this big a deal?
I'm pretty new to fighting games but every time I play them I don't seem to notice chip dmg unless some one is about to die
sorry for asking a probably dumb question

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

Like what?

• Having you're guard broken after blocking to much, allowing a free combo of choosing
• After blocking too much every hit landed on you will be a counter hit
• P4U's blue health system
• Gaining an inconvenient status for blocking too much

You're asking me to recall several times that a round in a game has come down to a sliver of health and a comeback. That's a pretty daunting task.....still, I literally went to TeamSp00ky's channel and clicked on videos at random before I got tired of it.

Some of these are a any hit and it's over, others are a two hit string or strong enough special would end it.

Spoiler

7:19

12:03 and 14:30

3:40

5:35

5:50

5 of 7 videos I clicked on and one video had two.


Edit:



I have already said I play several fighters and that I prefer chip on normals for straight forward fighters.

My fault. I would have been fine with one vid, I didn't mean to make you work so much.

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

I gotta ask is Chip Dmg really this big a deal?
I'm pretty new to fighting games but every time I play them I don't seem to notice chip dmg unless some one is about to die
sorry for asking a probably dumb question

It's not a dumb question at all.

Yeah, it can be a deciding factor for the winner of a match, and how well a chip system is implemented is just another thing that goes to show how deep a FG is.

I honestly can't give a legitimate answer. The only time I've played a non-zoner seriously was Painwheel in Skullgirls(and I'm bad at it) :s

I'm gonna say armor works a lot for these types, as well as generally faster normals(with the exception of the big characters who have truckloads of armor) but don't take my word for it

Along with playing Injustice you also play SG? I also just started trying to learn the game, if you have XBL we should play sometime. I use team Cere/double as well as Painwheel, but I haven't found a partner for her yet.

 

[Compbros]

• Having you're guard broken after blocking to much, allowing a free combo of choosing
• After blocking too much every hit landed on you will be a counter hit
• P4U's blue health system
• Gaining an inconvenient status for blocking too much

My fault. I would have been fine with one vid, I didn't mean to make you work so much.

That would be a disaster against Johnny Cage, Kabal, and Sonya.

Again, a disaster with how MK, and possibly Injustice, is structured. There's many characters that just overwhelm you with strings. If a counter hit causes a stumble for free combo then there'd be no point in playing any character beyond 4 or so more than likely.

I love P4's blue health system, but I don't know if auto losing 12 percent of your health on the next hit and losing 3-7 percent from strings is a much better solution. It merely changes the end of the match sometimes.

Like what? Some type of poison that cause health loss over time? Taking more damage? Again, not much better, if at all, from just taking chip.


Lol, don't worry about it.

 

[THTB]

Wait pokes make combo links into specials! I didn't know that...that's a huge gameplay mechanic nobody is discussing. It's hard to get real info around with all the "gimme raven....wait raven is ugly..." Bullshit.

One of the Flash combo videos show this is true. Old build, yes, but with all the other stuff still in the game like the crazy backdashing, it wouldn't surprise me if it's still in.

Nobody is discussing anything about the game mechanics...there's enough footage to make some calls on stuff. Like, from first glance, a lot of specials that start or continue juggles require meter.

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

That would be a disaster against Johnny Cage, Kabal, and Sonya.

Again, a disaster with how MK, and possibly Injustice, is structured. There's many characters that just overwhelm you with strings. If a counter hit causes a stumble for free combo then there'd be no point in playing any character beyond 4 or so more than likely.

I love P4's blue health system, but I don't know if auto losing 12 percent of your health on the next hit and losing 3-7 percent from strings is a much better solution. It merely changes the end of the match sometimes.

Like what? Some type of poison that cause health loss over time? Taking more damage? Again, not much better, if at all, from just taking chip.


Lol, don't worry about it.

Guard break wouldn't be disastrous. Johnny Cage, Kabal, and Sonya could simply have less "weight" on their attacks, making them have to land more than other characters to even it out. The same can be said for the counterhit bar, and I forgot to mention but that one goes down while you're not blocking so it rarely happens and you have to be fast to make use of the status.

You never lose that much health from chip. If you have that much blue health you were using autocombo, DP, etc. It'd be fine for MK or Injustice. There's also the fact that in P4U, you have to actually land a clean hit to win the match. You can't just land a guaranteed attack the other other guy will have to block, like chucking a projectile.

In MBAACC, you can use the guard gauge for other options, like parry, reduce damage etc. and when depleted you lose those skills. I don't remember what the negative status was because I literally just got into the game 2 days ago. I haven't played any actual matches because it's on PC and my wired controller decided to break . I'll ask my friend about it
In BB you take more damage when the guard meter is depleted, and it goes by time, not number of hits.

 

[Compbros]

I think at this point we're just gonna have to agree to disagree because we're just gonna go point for point without swaying the other lol.

 

[Treadmill]

One of the Flash combo videos show this is true. Old build, yes, but with all the other stuff still in the game like the crazy backdashing, it wouldn't surprise me if it's still in.

Nobody is discussing anything about the game mechanics...there's enough footage to make some calls on stuff. Like, from first glance, a lot of specials that start or continue juggles require meter.

Yeah i noticed juggles don't seem as easy as Mk without meter. Lots of meter is used for wall bounces and enhanced specials that give a pop up or relaunch. I guess that's a reason for the 4 bar system.

 

[Law Hero]

The thought of Johnny Cage having moves that crumple on Counter Hit makes me tingly.

 

[Komatose]

What? I thought there was going to be no chip damage in Injustice? What the hell.

 

[dendeno9]

No chip damage on normals because the reward for a good defense is staying alive.
Chip damage on specials to encourage people to do more than just block a projectile, maybe jump over or duck instead, and to encourage whiff punishing specials.