General/Other - Shinnok Changes That should be made across the board

[Invincible Salads]

shinnok definitely has quite a few glaring problems in several matchups that could easily be addressed with a few small tweaks.

my main issue with this character, is that vs certain other characters, anything he does on block to them that does not involve meter easily gets punished (not counting the boneshaper strings). Cassie comes to mind in this case, seeing as most of his strings are -6 or more. Heres the changes i think should be made and i think their rather fair.


standing 1: +2 on block
11: -4 on block
112: -3 on block
3: -4
31: -3
312: 0 on block (im pretty sure it has a gap in it, if im mistaken then it should be -2)
Hellsparks: down from -22 on block to -18 on block
f22 (necro and impostor only) -6 on block.

what do you guys think? any changes?

 

[Jaku2011]

Buffing hellsparks..... I know your gonna say "it's still punishable tho" but come on man that shit is hard enough to punish as it is.

 

[Invincible Salads]

Buffing hellsparks..... I know your gonna say "it's still punishable tho" but come on man that shit is hard enough to punish as it is.

thing is though, theres a few characters that can completely blow him up for free every time he does it. which basically nulls his best tool unless he uses meter. at -18, its still punishable, but theres fewer things that can full combo punish it.

 

[Jaku2011]

thing is though, theres a few characters that can completely blow him up for free every time he does it. which basically nulls his best tool unless he uses meter. at -18, its still punishable, but theres fewer things that can full combo punish it.

It's should be full combo punishable without meter, again no to that bull.

 

[Invincible Salads]

It's should be full combo punishable without meter, again no to that bull.

git gud

but seriously, -18 isnt that bad.
how bout the other changes though?

 

[Jaku2011]

git gud

but seriously, -18 isnt that bad.
how bout the other changes though?

He can mb it at any point, and your punish option are already limited if you're hit with the last spark. But nah lets buff it though, dumb. As for the rest I don't play him enough to know what the frame changes would change, +2 s1 would be annoying on a character that can already get tons of plus frames on shit and has a stupid fast low.

 

[Prinz]

Shinnok is really mid tier.

 

[Invincible Salads]

He can mb it at any point, and your punish option are already limited if you're hit with the last spark. But nah lets buff it though, dumb. As for the rest I don't play him enough to know what the frame changes would change, +2 s1 would be annoying on a character that can already get tons of plus frames on shit and has a stupid fast low.

it is a high though, so its not that bad.
besides, tell me seeing repeated bitch slaps from shinnok wouldnt be hilarious?

 

[RyuuJin882]

His frame data is fine. shinnok is about mind games. Use the frames to your advantage. If you r going to change any frames, change the startup and recovery on Necro.

 

[ArmedCalf]

I personally think he's in a good place right now, I'm sure a lot of people agree. Besides the fact that his strings aren't safe make up for his d4 that jails into hellsparks, 7 frame low, the OH being added, etc. I mean he's still really good (top 10 easily), but if he had everything he has plus safe strings, he'd be too good.

 

[Invincible Salads]

I personally think he's in a good place right now, I'm sure a lot of people agree. Besides the fact that his strings aren't safe make up for his d4 that jails into hellsparks, 7 frame low, the OH being added, etc. I mean he's still really good (top 10 easily), but if he had everything he has plus safe strings, he'd be too good.

why does he need like all his strings to be unsafe?

 

[Invincible Salads]

some of his strings like 312 i wish were more useful than they are.

 

[Rampage254]

NotLikeThis

 

[Invincible Salads]

NotLikeThis

Y U NO LIKE?!!

 

[ArmedCalf]

why does he need like all his strings to be unsafe?

He's a very interesting character. Most character's have no answer to d4xxHell Sparks. With Imposter, I know that does at least 5% chip, builds a lot of bar, and pushes the opponent away. He has a low that you can't react to - you can literally tap someone with his +2 standing 2 and watch them change block in an attempt to react to his 50/50. I mean I don't play it, but even in Boneshaper you can still throw out that beam on block and you'll still be in a pretty good place.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, Shinnok doesn't need safe strings. He's not pressuring people up close, he's pressuring people because he has one of the best zoning tools in the game that he can throw out whenever he wants. Plus, the majority of the cast have to hold that shit unless they have a fast advancing special. He builds meter like a son of a gun so he can usually always make himself safe anyhow. I just don't think the other two variations of Shinnok should be able to run up on someone and get away with safe pressure - it'd be pretty crazy

 

[Invincible Salads]

He's a very interesting character. Most character's have no answer to d4xxHell Sparks. With Imposter, I know that does at least 5% chip, builds a lot of bar, and pushes the opponent away. He has a low that you can't react to - you can literally tap someone with his +2 standing 2 and watch them change block in an attempt to react to his 50/50. I mean I don't play it, but even in Boneshaper you can still throw out that beam on block and you'll still be in a pretty good place.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, Shinnok doesn't need safe strings. He's not pressuring people up close, he's pressuring people because he has one of the best zoning tools in the game that he can throw out whenever he wants. Plus, the majority of the cast have to hold that shit unless they have a fast advancing special. He builds meter like a son of a gun so he can usually always make himself safe anyhow. I just don't think the other two variations of Shinnok should be able to run up on someone and get away with safe pressure - it'd be pretty crazy

at the very least then, his 312 string should be buffed, and his f22 in impostor and necro should be a bit safer.

 

[MrSunshine]

#buffnecro

 

[ArmedCalf]

at the very least then, his 312 string should be buffed, and his f22 in impostor and necro should be a bit safer.

312 is -7 on block and truth be told, you should really only whip that out as a corner punish or if you're in the middle of a vortex on Scorpion or Quan-Chi. F22 is -8 on block....I mean I wouldn't complain if they made it -6 or -7 just so it could be a trade off, You cover a gap, but your opponent gets to start pressure. But I mean having said that I still think -8 isn't too bad at all.

 

[STB Damashi]

For Impostor and Necromancer I think they should just decrease the Start-Up and Recovery frames on Amulet Strike. It is a pretty useless slow High Attack that makes it difficult to counter zoning with it because of its slow start-up and recovery.

 

[SaltShaker]

#BuffShinnok
#Nerf LowTiers

 

[ArmedCalf]

For Impostor and Necromancer I think they should just decrease the Start-Up and Recovery frames on Amulet Strike. It is a pretty useless slow High Attack that makes it difficult to counter zoning with it because of its slow start-up and recovery.

I'm actually okay with this

 

[MrSunshine]

Reg Amulet strike is the most useless move ever. Make it restand kappa

 

[xInfra Deadx]

He's fine to me, doesn't need anything drastic.

 

[ArmedCalf]

I get what he's saying with the amulet though, leave it where it is in terms of block advantage, but make it faster so it can actually be used to absorb projectiles. Only on the normal one though, the EX is fine as is.

 

[Youphemism]

For Impostor and Necromancer I think they should just decrease the Start-Up and Recovery frames on Amulet Strike. It is a pretty useless slow High Attack that makes it difficult to counter zoning with it because of its slow start-up and recovery.

Funnily enough I actually use Amulet Strike to make blockstrings "safe". Against certain characters it pushes back to the extent that it's either more difficult to punish for some or they can't punish it at all.