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Cetrion after patch

ABACABB

ABACABB

End Of Humanity
Thoughts ? Imo spring cleaning is still very goood . Possibly even better considering her minor nerfs and top tiers getting huge changes , Tele nerf is barely noticable , they went for skarlet tele too so its not only her . Combos deal a bit less dmg due to slight geyser dmg nerf . Its just me or now its easier to frame trap after fullscreen rock blocked into geyser or ground pound ? overall im happy with patch . FoN is better but still not worth it over spring cleaning imo . Its not even about combo dmg but lack of tele and natural barrier hurts much .
 
Reactions: jmt
LawAbidingCitizen

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
FoN gets cancel pressure she like -4 on block and +18 on hit. Pretty strong buff. I'd say both Variations are not high tier for sure. Both have thier uses. Still experimenting with FON I'm sure there us more to play around with.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I'm reserving my thoughts until the weekend. Lots of characters are looking really good now, so I'm a bit unsure how I feel at the moment.
 
LawAbidingCitizen

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
ABACABB said:
Thoughts ? Imo spring cleaning is still very goood . Possibly even better considering her minor nerfs and top tiers getting huge changes , Tele nerf is barely noticable , they went for skarlet tele too so its not only her . Combos deal a bit less dmg due to slight geyser dmg nerf . Its just me or now its easier to frame trap after fullscreen rock blocked into geyser or ground pound ? overall im happy with patch . FoN is better but still not worth it over spring cleaning imo . Its not even about combo dmg but lack of tele and natural barrier hurts much .
Click to expand...
I feel FON is top tier now and worth picking over SC.

The GPC (Ground Pound Cancels) and mid games that come off it are incredible.

21 is now a true 50/50 that can be made safe on both options. We all know her GPC can be jumped on second hit for full combo punish but its not punishable when its canceled and still retains the mixup 50/50 or 30/30/30.

213 or 21xxGPC
Cetrion can AA their jump atemps after canceling
Its a hit confirmable -1 on block stagger that has mixup and KB. Now they have to respect her highs not just because of the range but she can Cancel off her 10f low.
 
ABACABB

ABACABB

End Of Humanity
LawAbidingCitizen said:
I feel FON is top tier now and worth picking over SC.

The GPC (Ground Pound Cancels) and mid games that come off it are incredible.

21 is now a true 50/50 that can be made safe on both options. We all know her GPC can be jumped on second hit for full combo punish but its not punishable when its canceled and still retains the mixup 50/50 or 30/30/30.

213 or 21xxGPC
Cetrion can AA their jump atemps after canceling
Its a hit confirmable -1 on block stagger that has mixup and KB. Now they have to respect her highs not just because of the range but she can Cancel off her 10f low.
Click to expand...
yeah it sounds great on paper but idk if its worth to pick over free get out of corner with tele , natural barrier which is great neutral tool and combo dmg with geyser . I dont think honestly , but maybe im wrong im no pro player . If we see dragon switch to fon in tourneys that will confirm fon is better :p
 
Eldagrin

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
I think FoN MAY now have some MU specific uses, the cancel is pretty nice now. As for SC, I think it’s definitely still a top 10 variation. The biggest nerf the variation got was a universal nerf to the character with the boulder change. Her shimmy game will wall and her normals is still insane and hell’s wrath is still great.
 
jmt

jmt

Kombatant
LawAbidingCitizen said:
I feel FON is top tier now and worth picking over SC.

The GPC (Ground Pound Cancels) and mid games that come off it are incredible.

21 is now a true 50/50 that can be made safe on both options. We all know her GPC can be jumped on second hit for full combo punish but its not punishable when its canceled and still retains the mixup 50/50 or 30/30/30.

213 or 21xxGPC
Cetrion can AA their jump atemps after canceling
Its a hit confirmable -1 on block stagger that has mixup and KB. Now they have to respect her highs not just because of the range but she can Cancel off her 10f low.
Click to expand...
Yea I totally disagree. That’s not going to work. FON is still really bad compared to SC. You ain’t ever gonna see a FON in top 8.
 
Dreamcatcher

Dreamcatcher

EFL Founder
I'm kind of at a loss with FoN, I don't understand what they were trying to do with it. The earthquake cancel is cool, but completely removing the advantage on hit if you cancel is stupid. They should have at least left the advantage so you could extend her combos. Your whole game plan is zoning and hoping to God that you land the boulder KB's, which are both not exactly on purpose let's be honest. It might have been broken as shit but it would have made more sense if FoN had the teleport to combine with earthquake and keep them out. (like Skarlet with the tentacle and tele)

Am I wrong in assuming she has the worst non-KB/FB damage in the game now?
 
LawAbidingCitizen

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
rainuS said:
exactly they add 50/50 to game which shouldnt have this they are makin mkx again with patches
Click to expand...
Are you really having issue with mixups/guess?
Its just another tool for an otherwise lackluster variation to have something to deal with MU's. She gets low damage and the thing she has going for her us pressure and mind games.
Bit having a problem with guesses doesn't make much sense, the entire meta is built around mixups in different forms.
Strike throw/Rock Paper Scissors
  1. Number of hit mix (basically 50/50)
  2. Staggers (are 50/50s)
  3. Frame traps (mixups)
  4. Auto Shimmies
  5. Overhead low mix
  6. Low/Mid or CMD Grab (50/50)
All of the characters have 2 or more of these meaning all of the have 50/50s. Its a Strike Throw meta because all of the shit from MKX was taken out of the game. We don't have fast overhead to Low strings that are cancelable into true 50/50s on block or tick throws. There was +20 cancel pressure into HTB's.

Space yourself correctly and most of those mixups are none existent
 
Baconlord

Baconlord

Proud follower of the church of Cetrion
I think she's potentially the best in the game now. Top 3 for sure imo. They didn't even touch the stuff that made her good
 
Eldagrin

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
Dreamcatcher said:
I'm kind of at a loss with FoN, I don't understand what they were trying to do with it. The earthquake cancel is cool, but completely removing the advantage on hit if you cancel is stupid. They should have at least left the advantage so you could extend her combos. Your whole game plan is zoning and hoping to God that you land the boulder KB's, which are both not exactly on purpose let's be honest. It might have been broken as shit but it would have made more sense if FoN had the teleport to combine with earthquake and keep them out. (like Skarlet with the tentacle and tele)

Am I wrong in assuming she has the worst non-KB/FB damage in the game now?
Click to expand...
She does have low damage in FoN, but I would argue that her damage in FoN is better than Frost's exploding head variation. Her damage has always been like this in FoN though. She also is working entirely off unbreakable damage in FoN that ends with her at +18 from quake cancel. She also has a safe special cancel off f23 in FoN which is useful. I'm not entirely sure HOW good it is but it could be useful in certain match ups. It is too early to give a definitive "it's amazing" or "it's terrible" I suppose.

Edit: I don't think it's better than Spring Cleaning though, SC is still ridiculously strong.
 
DrFolmer

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
Dreamcatcher said:
I'm kind of at a loss with FoN, I don't understand what they were trying to do with it. The earthquake cancel is cool, but completely removing the advantage on hit if you cancel is stupid. They should have at least left the advantage so you could extend her combos. Your whole game plan is zoning and hoping to God that you land the boulder KB's, which are both not exactly on purpose let's be honest. It might have been broken as shit but it would have made more sense if FoN had the teleport to combine with earthquake and keep them out. (like Skarlet with the tentacle and tele)

Am I wrong in assuming she has the worst non-KB/FB damage in the game now?
Click to expand...
Jax bruv
 
Dreamcatcher

Dreamcatcher

EFL Founder
Eldagrin said:
She does have low damage in FoN, but I would argue that her damage in FoN is better than Frost's exploding head variation. Her damage has always been like this in FoN though. She also is working entirely off unbreakable damage in FoN that ends with her at +18 from quake cancel. She also has a safe special cancel off f23 in FoN which is useful. I'm not entirely sure HOW good it is but it could be useful in certain match ups. It is too early to give a definitive "it's amazing" or "it's terrible" I suppose.

Edit: I don't think it's better than Spring Cleaning though, SC is still ridiculously strong.
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You make some great points and I forgot about Frost too... that might actually be the worst variation in the game now other than just the low damage. Lol

Maybe I'll mess around with it some more and see if I can find some more value. I'm a big fan of unbreakable damage, even if it's less. I wonder if they were trying to get us to play her FoN to zone someone all the way into the corner and then exploit that +18. That's gotta be terrifying to a non-teleporter to face that routinely right?
 
DrFolmer

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
I think with the buffs to FoN it's a very viable pick in certain matchups. While Spring Cleaning was the more versatile of the variations given the access to teleport and fullscreen conversions, I do feel like FoN did better than SC in certain matchups. Not to say SC wasnt a super good pick anyway - but I would argue less mobile characters struggle getting in on FoN as opposed to SC. As a Johnny player I always preferred fighting Spring Cleaning over FoN, and when I win against SC I usually see a switch to the other variation. The thing is, the ground pound is a really dominant move as it tracks and low profiles retaliation. Where I can actually contest using Johnny's Forceballs against SC this is completely off the table against FoN. Blocked boulders also guarantee ground pound still keeping her fullscreen frame trap game. I think with the Cancel now - at least from a keep away perspective anyway - her zoning gets even more layered.

SC is still the more versatile of the two but I think FoN holds its own in certain situations. Or maybe I just suck against FoN lul
 
Eldagrin

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
Dreamcatcher said:
You make some great points and I forgot about Frost too... that might actually be the worst variation in the game now other than just the low damage. Lol

Maybe I'll mess around with it some more and see if I can find some more value. I'm a big fan of unbreakable damage, even if it's less. I wonder if they were trying to get us to play her FoN to zone someone all the way into the corner and then exploit that +18. That's gotta be terrifying to a non-teleporter to face that routinely right?
Click to expand...
I suppose part of the power of the cancel is also that you can jump the gap in between the hits of quake and now that you can cancel it you can AA someone who knows about the jump gap. The thing about the unbreakable damage of FoN is that SC gets better unbreakable damage since F23 xx db4 s4 db1 is 209 and FoN's quake cancel is 190ish. FoN could have MU specific uses but I'm not sure against which characters. It will definitely be worse than SC again anyone that Geyser gets a punish on one of their main tools.
 
Eldagrin

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
Honestly the pros I see of SC over FoN as it stands currently are:
-Teleport is still amazing
-Use of f13 as a hitconfirmable combo starter
-Better AA/j3 conversions
-Slightly higher KB damage (FoN gets 390 off 213 KB)
-A stronger and easier frame trap off boulder/ on hit beam
-Punish on Sonya drone drop/sand trap/ground skulls/geyser/full screen FBs (also lets her punish those things with her FB)
-Wall (Great AA, great in neutral, useful KB in certain MUs, etc.)
-Significantly higher damage (270 max damage BnB vs 213)

Cons:
-Wall is a riskier special cancel than Quake cancel
-More likely to be O-meter starved than FoN
-Geyser is death on whiff/FB
-Geyser is reversal punishable by some specials that do not punish quake
-Struggles more at dealing with fast high projectiles than FoN (Still doesn't struggle badly though)
 
ABACABB

ABACABB

End Of Humanity
As far as dealing with fast high projectiles as sc , I dont know why cet players dont use it more but when ur far u can use db4 to duck under their projectile and grab them from ground :p You can also tele behind them and punish.

Honestly for me biggest factor why sc is better than fon is lack of wall in fon . It has so much uses in neutral and strings . I can play without tele and lower combo dmg . But lack of wall hurts too much .
 
exflyingbooty

exflyingbooty

This dream has a sad ending
Eldagrin said:
Cons:
-Wall is a riskier special cancel than Quake cancel
-More likely to be O-meter starved than FoN
-Geyser is death on whiff/FB
-Geyser is reversal punishable by some specials that do not punish quake
-Struggles more at dealing with fast high projectiles than FoN (Still doesn't struggle badly though)
Click to expand...
  • You missed strong standing resets with quake cancel
  • Mix up potential from 213 and f+213 strings involving quake to make it a 33/33/33
 
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