T4T|Nevan
"Burn baby! Burn!"
While testing some setups vs Green Arrow, mostly [...] j2 b2 xx mid mine, I noticed that some wake ups would nullify the mine or the push block didn't get him on the mine. So I wanted to test vs each character, how their wake up moves affect the setup, what's the outcome.
So I'll explain what I'll aproach. I like to explore Lex options without trait, that way, by causing a action -> reaction scenario, I can see how the op reacts to the setup and what tendencies does he have vs said setup. I'll go through the 'reasonable' wake up moves, mostly evasive or advancing. The objective is to put them on the mine, by either a pushblock or properties of the move used.
If you guys find usefull, or crucial, I can list the punishes vs the move used, cause, as LtLuthor said most of those wake ups can be punished afterwards with no need to burn a meter bar. However I want you to follow me on this, I want to 'force' them to wake up , to panic due to the threat of a mine and thinking:"Oh imma use this wake up! It gets further away from the mine!". The fools will not be happy with the option to pushblock.
I'll keep the post updated with my results, I'm going through all the cast. The thread can be further extended by approaching the same 'action -> reaction scenario' regarding the other Lex setups.
I hope this is helpful.
These tests were made with the AI on Auto Block and Wake Up On.
Legend(all moves are listed as facing right)
Mid Mine - dd3
Close Mine - dd3b
Red - Doesn't work even with/without pushblock
Green - Works with/without pushblock
Setup - [...] j2 b2 xx mine
vs The Flash
vs Nightwing
vs Batman
vs Cyborg
vs Green Arrow
vs Superman
vs Martian Manhunter
vs Raven
vs Aquaman
vs Wonder Woman
vs Zatanna
vs Hawkgirl
vs Shazam
Athlas Torpedo(bf2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Hercules Might(dbf1):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Eluding Mercury Storm(db3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: All his wake ups avoid the mine setups, altough I think you can catch Eluding Mercury Storm with a far mine. Don't fret tho, I'll aproach how you can 'punish' Shazams, and others, attempts to get away.
vs Green Lantern
Lanterns Might(db1):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Turbine Smash(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Lanterns Might and Turbine Smash against close mine get caught on the spot.
vs Batgirl
Bat-Wheel(db2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Redemption(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Bat-Evade(db3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Smoke Bomb(dd3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: It's when you test something that you come to realization of certain facts, Batgirls wake up is damned scary. Bat-Evade escapes all mines and can punish Lex, take care. Smoke Bomb against close mine gets caught on spot.
vs Lobo
Czarnian Toss(dbf2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Hook Charge(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Czarnian Toss gets out of every mine setup but you can interrupt(punish) with a 112.
vs The Joker
Crowbar(bf1):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: For the moment nothing to add. If you have anything to add to this please do.
vs Harley Quinn
Play Doctor(dbf1):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Silly Slide(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Trantrum Stance(db3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Silly Slide can be interrupted with 112, for exemple, but the first hit will wiff and can also be thrown.
vs Solomon Grundy
Walking Corpse(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: WC escapes every mine setup and he can't be thrown. In another post I'll explore was to punish this, if there is any.
vs Zod
Zod Charge(bf2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Zod Charge against close mine will get caught either if you block or not.
vs Lex Luthor
Corp Charge(bf2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Corp Charge can't be pushblocked.
vs Catwoman
Cat Dash(bf2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Didn't test Cat Scratch. Low Feline Evade can escape mine setups by nullifying them, however I need to test this further.
vs Deathstroke
Sword Flip
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Sword Spin
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: To get Sword Flip on mid mine you need to pushblock it asap.
vs Scorpion
Teleport Punch(db3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Flip Kick(df2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Leg Takedown(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Leg Takedown against close mine, while recovering he'll get into the mine. No pushblock needed.
vs Ares
God Smack(dd2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Warp Transmition(db3/df3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Warp Transmitions nullify either mine. God Smack against close mine gets caught on start up.
vs Killer Frost
Black Ice(bd3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Flash Freeze(dbf2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Flash Freeze against close mine gets caught on spot.
vs Doomsday
Venom(df3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Up Venom(db3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Supernova(db2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Venom, it will mostly used with MB, it'll get away from both mines and if you want to pushblock you have to pushblock the 2nd hit. If the 1st is pushed the 2nd will nullify the pushblock effect. Up Venom crosses up and can't be pushblocked.
vs Sinestro
Arachnid Sting(df2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: No need to pushblock Arachnid Sting against close mine.
vs Black Adam
Lightning Cage(db3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Lightning Cage nullifies close mine.
vs Bane
Double Punch(bf2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Body Press(dbf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Venon Uppercut(db2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Raging Charge(bf1):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: No need to pushblock Raging Charge against a close mine.
*Log - updated 20/11/2013*
*Log - updated 21/11/2013*
So I'll explain what I'll aproach. I like to explore Lex options without trait, that way, by causing a action -> reaction scenario, I can see how the op reacts to the setup and what tendencies does he have vs said setup. I'll go through the 'reasonable' wake up moves, mostly evasive or advancing. The objective is to put them on the mine, by either a pushblock or properties of the move used.
If you guys find usefull, or crucial, I can list the punishes vs the move used, cause, as LtLuthor said most of those wake ups can be punished afterwards with no need to burn a meter bar. However I want you to follow me on this, I want to 'force' them to wake up , to panic due to the threat of a mine and thinking:"Oh imma use this wake up! It gets further away from the mine!". The fools will not be happy with the option to pushblock.
I'll keep the post updated with my results, I'm going through all the cast. The thread can be further extended by approaching the same 'action -> reaction scenario' regarding the other Lex setups.
I hope this is helpful.
These tests were made with the AI on Auto Block and Wake Up On.
Legend(all moves are listed as facing right)
Mid Mine - dd3
Close Mine - dd3b
Red - Doesn't work even with/without pushblock
Green - Works with/without pushblock
Setup - [...] j2 b2 xx mine
vs The Flash
Lightning Charge(bf2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Sonic Pound(df3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Flying Uppercut(db3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Speed Dodge(db1):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: You must block Flying Uppercut standing otherwise it'll cross up. Lightning Charge no need to pushblock it using a close mine. Speed Dodge will evade but can be countered with throw/f3/b3, however MB Speed Dodge might get rid of those options, need to test it.
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Sonic Pound(df3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Flying Uppercut(db3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Speed Dodge(db1):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: You must block Flying Uppercut standing otherwise it'll cross up. Lightning Charge no need to pushblock it using a close mine. Speed Dodge will evade but can be countered with throw/f3/b3, however MB Speed Dodge might get rid of those options, need to test it.
Escrima > Flip Kick(db3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Staff > Staff Spin(db2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Staff > Flying Grayson(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: No need to pushblock Staff Spin when using a close mine.
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Staff > Staff Spin(db2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Staff > Flying Grayson(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: No need to pushblock Staff Spin when using a close mine.
Cape Parry(db3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Slide Kick(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Cape Parry is weak vs low, but if you throw Batman into the mine, when waking up from the throw a wake up Cape Parry will nullify the mine.
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Slide Kick(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Cape Parry is weak vs low, but if you throw Batman into the mine, when waking up from the throw a wake up Cape Parry will nullify the mine.
Powerfist(db1):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Techno Tackle(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: This was damn hilarious but if Cyborg wakes up with Techno Tackle against a close mine, when he recovers he'll roll back into the mine LOL Didn't test MB Techno Tackle.
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Techno Tackle(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: This was damn hilarious but if Cyborg wakes up with Techno Tackle against a close mine, when he recovers he'll roll back into the mine LOL Didn't test MB Techno Tackle.
Savage Shot(db2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Stinger(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Savage Shot against mid mine gets right on the mine. Wasn't able to replicate Stinger nullifying the mine. I think that happened due to an input error, to precise: 2 xx mine - the wake up invul would nullify the mine.
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Stinger(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Savage Shot against mid mine gets right on the mine. Wasn't able to replicate Stinger nullifying the mine. I think that happened due to an input error, to precise: 2 xx mine - the wake up invul would nullify the mine.
Rising Grab(df2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Flying Punch(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Low Scoop(df1):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: block Rising Grab standing, if crouched it will cross up, hence, getting away. Low Scoop against close mine nullifyies it.
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Flying Punch(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Low Scoop(df1):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: block Rising Grab standing, if crouched it will cross up, hence, getting away. Low Scoop against close mine nullifyies it.
Phase Charge(bf2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Phase Assault(db3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Martian Grab(db1):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Psionic Push(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Psionic Push can't be pushblocked. All MMH wake ups against close mine are all caught, no need to push block them. It's safe to say that close mine is the way to go vs MMH.
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Phase Assault(db3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Martian Grab(db1):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Psionic Push(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Psionic Push can't be pushblocked. All MMH wake ups against close mine are all caught, no need to push block them. It's safe to say that close mine is the way to go vs MMH.
Behind Dark Transmition(df3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: this was the only wake up I tested for Raven. She has a really weak wake up game and Lex benefits from it a lot. If anyone has some insight on this please go ahead.
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: this was the only wake up I tested for Raven. She has a really weak wake up game and Lex benefits from it a lot. If anyone has some insight on this please go ahead.
vs Aquaman
Water Shield(db2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Water Shield against mid mine can't be grabed. MB Water Shield blows you way if delayed.
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Water Shield against mid mine can't be grabed. MB Water Shield blows you way if delayed.
vs Wonder Woman
Amazonian Uppercut(df3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Lasso Spin(db3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Bracelets of Submission(db1):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Amalthea Bash(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Lasso Spin nullifies close mine. Amalthea Bash against close mine gets on it while Lex blocks, no need to pushblock. Bracelets are vulnerable to lows/grab.
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Lasso Spin(db3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Bracelets of Submission(db1):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Amalthea Bash(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Lasso Spin nullifies close mine. Amalthea Bash against close mine gets on it while Lex blocks, no need to pushblock. Bracelets are vulnerable to lows/grab.
vs Zatanna
Tropelet Yawa(dub):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Due to the option to teleport away you can mix it up with a far mine, instead of close/mid mine.
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Due to the option to teleport away you can mix it up with a far mine, instead of close/mid mine.
vs Hawkgirl
Mace Charge(bf2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Wing Evade(db2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Wing Evade just by it self gets caught on mid mine, however by pressing 3 for Dive Kick she can get out.
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Wing Evade(db2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Wing Evade just by it self gets caught on mid mine, however by pressing 3 for Dive Kick she can get out.
vs Shazam
Athlas Torpedo(bf2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Hercules Might(dbf1):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Eluding Mercury Storm(db3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: All his wake ups avoid the mine setups, altough I think you can catch Eluding Mercury Storm with a far mine. Don't fret tho, I'll aproach how you can 'punish' Shazams, and others, attempts to get away.
vs Green Lantern
Lanterns Might(db1):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Turbine Smash(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Lanterns Might and Turbine Smash against close mine get caught on the spot.
vs Batgirl
Bat-Wheel(db2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Redemption(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Bat-Evade(db3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Smoke Bomb(dd3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: It's when you test something that you come to realization of certain facts, Batgirls wake up is damned scary. Bat-Evade escapes all mines and can punish Lex, take care. Smoke Bomb against close mine gets caught on spot.
vs Lobo
Czarnian Toss(dbf2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Hook Charge(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Czarnian Toss gets out of every mine setup but you can interrupt(punish) with a 112.
vs The Joker
Crowbar(bf1):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: For the moment nothing to add. If you have anything to add to this please do.
vs Harley Quinn
Play Doctor(dbf1):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Silly Slide(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Trantrum Stance(db3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Silly Slide can be interrupted with 112, for exemple, but the first hit will wiff and can also be thrown.
vs Solomon Grundy
Walking Corpse(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: WC escapes every mine setup and he can't be thrown. In another post I'll explore was to punish this, if there is any.
vs Zod
Zod Charge(bf2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Zod Charge against close mine will get caught either if you block or not.
vs Lex Luthor
Corp Charge(bf2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Corp Charge can't be pushblocked.
vs Catwoman
Cat Dash(bf2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Didn't test Cat Scratch. Low Feline Evade can escape mine setups by nullifying them, however I need to test this further.
vs Deathstroke
Sword Flip
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Sword Spin
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: To get Sword Flip on mid mine you need to pushblock it asap.
vs Scorpion
Teleport Punch(db3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Flip Kick(df2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Leg Takedown(bf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Leg Takedown against close mine, while recovering he'll get into the mine. No pushblock needed.
vs Ares
God Smack(dd2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Warp Transmition(db3/df3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Warp Transmitions nullify either mine. God Smack against close mine gets caught on start up.
vs Killer Frost
Black Ice(bd3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Flash Freeze(dbf2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Flash Freeze against close mine gets caught on spot.
vs Doomsday
Venom(df3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Up Venom(db3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Supernova(db2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Venom, it will mostly used with MB, it'll get away from both mines and if you want to pushblock you have to pushblock the 2nd hit. If the 1st is pushed the 2nd will nullify the pushblock effect. Up Venom crosses up and can't be pushblocked.
vs Sinestro
Arachnid Sting(df2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: No need to pushblock Arachnid Sting against close mine.
vs Black Adam
Lightning Cage(db3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: Lightning Cage nullifies close mine.
vs Bane
Double Punch(bf2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Body Press(dbf3):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Venon Uppercut(db2):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Raging Charge(bf1):
- j2 b2 xx mid mine
- j2 b2 xx close mine
Notes: No need to pushblock Raging Charge against a close mine.
*Log - updated 20/11/2013*
*Log - updated 21/11/2013*
Last edited: