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Blue Beetle Match Up Chart 2018

Espio

Kokomo
Current opinions on Beetle and his match ups as of September 12, 2018. I think he's a solid mid tier character and as a result his match up spread reflects that with a large majority of even match ups and then a relatively balanced dispersal of winning and losing match ups.

I'm willing to discuss match ups with everyone, but do so in a productive, respectful way so that we can all learn something.



Poison Ivy: 6-4

Joker: 6-4

Black Lightning/Raiden: 6-4

Gorilla Grodd: 6-4

Black Canary: 6-4

Raphael: 6-4

Bane: 6-4

Donatello: 6-4


Vixen/Cheetah: 5-5

Flash: 5-5

Captain Cold: 5-5

Superman: 5-5

Leonardo: 5-5

Atrocitus: 5-5

Starfire: 5-5

Michaelangelo: 5-5

Black Manta: 5-5

Sub-Zero: 5-5

Batman: 5-5

Deadshot: 5-5

Black Adam: 5-5

Atom: 5-5

Enchantress: 5-5

Dr. Fate: 5-5

Harley Quinn: 5-5

Swamp Thing: 5-5

Wonder Woman: 5-5

Brainiac: 5-5

Darkseid: 5-5

Cyborg: 5-5

Robin: 5-5

Supergirl: 5-5

Firestorm: 5-5


Green Lantern: 4-6

Red Hood: 4-6

Scarecrow: 4-6

Catwoman: 4-6

Aquaman: 4-6

Green Arrow: 4-6

Hellboy: 4-6
 
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Laos_boy

Meow Hoes
6-4 Starfire? Can you explain?

I always felt he did okay vs Catwoman. Maybe 5-5
Not sure anymore, I don't really play Catwoman that MU

Also scarecrow. Ive never played the match but from theory I feel like it could be even. But again I've never played it.

Everything else looks good.
 

Espio

Kokomo
Anybody got some bug spray?
I'm glad you agree with Canary and Ivy :p




6-4 Starfire? Can you explain?

I always felt he did okay vs Catwoman. Maybe 5-5
Not sure anymore, I don't really play Catwoman that MU

Also scarecrow. Ive never played the match but from theory I feel like it could be even. But again I've never played it.

Everything else looks good.

I'm also interested in the Scarecrow mu, never played against a beetle player with him.

Starfire has little to no answer to blocked shield bash and cannot really stop his air game as he can counter zone her better than she can counter zone him. The zoning game tends to favor him too. It could be 5-5 but I don't see what she does to prevent Beetle from playing his game enough to say it's even.


Scarecrow doesn't care about your air mobility or your zoning. He has a special that negates projectiles and jump normals that snipe you out of the air from half screen away. His teleport is a viable tool in this match up as well and every single time he blocks your pressure he can chase you down and harass you with plus frames, you gotta hold a lot of his shit. His back 3 is godlike versus Beetle too and since Beetle cannot keep him out reliably, he has to deal with his trait draining your life and making comebacks much harder.

He is hard to anti-air for Beetle outside of blade stance and he beats us notably up close, even in blade stance he still has us outclassed and at best semi-even. The only Scarecrows I've played that really play the match up correctly are Whiteboi, Chongo and MidTierHarley in that order. It's Beetle's worst in my opinion.

Scarecrow struggling against zoning is a myth and only some exceptions like maybe Fate can give him some trouble or keep him truly honest.


As for Catwoman, since when was 4-6 not doing okay? Doing bad is 3-7 or worse, It's not like the match up is unwinnable. She has similar things that Scarecrow has going for him in the match up where she is hard to space out, hard to keep out with excellent spacing and counter zoning options. The only reason why it's less hard is she doesn't have Scarecrow's command grabs or plus frames and Beetle can more reliably anti-air her.
 

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
Missed Batman in your MU chart. I feel like Beetle controls the neutral really well, but Batman can steam roll once he gets in. Maybe 5-5
 

Espio

Kokomo
Missed Batman in your MU chart. I feel like Beetle controls the neutral really well, but Batman can steam roll once he gets in. Maybe 5-5
Thanks for catching that, I have it as 5-5 as well and added it. It's a fun match up in the current version of the game, it used to not be so much in vanilla lol.

He also has good checks for Beetle's air mobility, if he gets a lifelead he can be pretty irritating and cover Beetle's air approach with up batarangs and what not. Beetle keeps parries in check with sweep and gets decent oki on him. Beetle can anti-air him reliably too, which helps a lot.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Starfire has little to no answer to blocked shield bash and cannot really stop his air game as he can counter zone her better than she can counter zone him. The zoning game tends to favor him too. It could be 5-5 but I don't see what she does to prevent Beetle from playing his game enough to say it's even.
I personally think Star Vs. BB is a 5-5. Star can use MB Stardust which kinda keep the Zoning in her favor due to it being a slow projectile, also Star can use her TC (B,F,2) both on the ground and the air in addition to her regular air dash, which can challenge BB's mobility.

Also, where are the rest of the TMNT's?
 
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EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Way out of touch with things.. but when I stepped away from Inj2 around the end of December-ish Beetle was considered very strong, you say he's a solid mid tier now, but around when I stepped away he was being talked about as top 10 or better. Was he changed or nerfed, or were we all just over-estimating his strength?

Just curious.
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
Agree with Bane. Shield bash is throw immune I believe, and Beetle wins in footsies and zoning pretty convincingly. Bane has to make some hard(er) reads with armour in order to get through the neutral.

Although I noticed (could be wrong) that Beetle's that go for regular float mixup stuff usually get an armoured DB2 for their troubles due to various gaps. Patient Beetle's win though outside of hard armoured special reads in the neutral.
 

Espio

Kokomo
Way out of touch with things.. but when I stepped away from Inj2 around the end of December-ish Beetle was considered very strong, you say he's a solid mid tier now, but around when I stepped away he was being talked about as top 10 or better. Was he changed or nerfed, or were we all just over-estimating his strength?

Just curious.
Mid tier is strong. The problem is people thinking the character was ever bad in the first place when he wasn't. That's why the minor changes he got seemed jarring. You started seeing more people use him and experience what he could already do and they just assumed due to ignorance that he got so much when he got a minor damage increase, hitbox changes and less whiff recovery.

Just a typical instance of misunderstanding a character, their buffs and their toolset and never properly exploring it.

How does he do against Atom?
Currently have it as 5-5. Atom has no answers of value versus blocked shield bash and gets heavily outfootsied.

Beetle's excellent air and ground mobility really hurts his chemical usage as well. The only reason why it's not in Beetle's favor is because of Atom's low profiling of some of Beetle's good buttons and his teleport being a decent albeit costly check on Beetle's mobility.


I personally think Star Vs. BB is a 5-5. Star can use MB Stardust which kinda keep the Zoning in her favor due to it being a slow projectile, also Star can use her TC (B,F,2) both on the ground and the air in addition to her regular air dash, which can challenge BB's mobility.

Also, where are the rest of the TMNT's?
I've never played the match ups so putting numbers for them is useless and serves no benefit.


Agree with Bane. Shield bash is throw immune I believe, and Beetle wins in footsies and zoning pretty convincingly. Bane has to make some hard(er) reads with armour in order to get through the neutral.

Although I noticed (could be wrong) that Beetle's that go for regular float mixup stuff usually get an armoured DB2 for their troubles due to various gaps. Patient Beetle's win though outside of hard armoured special reads in the neutral.

Beetle players shouldn't be pressuring Bane when he has armor up unless it's something gapless as it's a needless risk that he probably shouldn't be taking. It's good that he has a defense against Beetle's pressure but Beetle shouldn't be overextending himself when he doesn't have to really.
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
Beetle players shouldn't be pressuring Bane when he has armor up unless it's something gapless as it's a needless risk that he probably shouldn't be taking. It's good that he has a defense against Beetle's pressure but Beetle shouldn't be overextending himself when he doesn't have to really.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's 6-4 is Beetle plays it right, yet many a Beetle player still tries to go in for something when Bane is in, but they can literally just push block him with the meter they'll no doubt have.
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
I'm also not sure about Atom but Beetle is definitely one of those characters who has the ability to prevent Atom from building meter which is hugely important to him. Blade stance jump normals are likely never getting anti-aired by Atom.

Not sure if Beetle wins the zoning war per say, but he can easily avoid it all together. Atom has very few options when it comes to dealing with Beetle's mobility, but Atom has some stuff like being able to low profile Beetle's wakeup, can get past Beetle's zoning with trait, and can mash D3 in the neutral for a lot of pretty safe pokes, particularly against Blade stance.

Also tele works well against a lot of oki in the game but I'm sure Beetle has some sort of setups to beat teleport like nearly everyone else does.
 

Undergroundepict

I am like the blue rose
Agree with Bane. Shield bash is throw immune I believe, and Beetle wins in footsies and zoning pretty convincingly. Bane has to make some hard(er) reads with armour in order to get through the neutral.

Although I noticed (could be wrong) that Beetle's that go for regular float mixup stuff usually get an armoured DB2 for their troubles due to various gaps. Patient Beetle's win though outside of hard armoured special reads in the neutral.
I would actually argue that it is 7-3 for Beetle. I have it as Bane's worst matchup.

All Beetle has to do is float around the stage and fire cheerios at Bane all day, building meter and dealing chip. Bane has no way of catching him without making an amazing read. Whenever Bane enters a debuff state, Beetle should call out trait and mix the fuck out of him.

On top of a rock solid gameplan, Beetle has a safe, grab immune wakeup in shield bash and a plethora of quick hitting armor breaking normals and strings.

If the Beetle player plays this MU right, it's a nightmare for Bane.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Currently have it as 5-5. Atom has no answers of value versus blocked shield bash and gets heavily outfootsied.

Beetle's excellent air and ground mobility really hurts his chemical usage as well. The only reason why it's not in Beetle's favor is because of Atom's low profiling of some of Beetle's good buttons and his teleport being a decent albeit costly check on Beetle's mobility.
I agree with this. I have literally played one BB player who did nothing but bf3, bf3, wake-up bf3 and d1~bf3 to me and if I block it I really can’t do anything unless I have meter, which BB is definitely at an advantage since Atom’s meter-build comes from doing stomps that are blocked, which the BB player can circumvent entirely using his floats and air cannons. Should BB get his cannon started, I’m pretty sure he recovers fast enough to duck the Atomiser shot but Atom gets hit, so he cannot trade and he has to risk it and go for a teleport. I would also like to note that doing db1MB sometimes whiffs since BB is floating and Atom’s little short arms cannot reach him, so we cannot hit him out of the air that consistently. In no way am I saying I know the matchup considering I don’t play a lot of beetles and the one who beat me rage quit after the run back. Just my two cents :)


Sent from my iPad using Test Your Might
 

Laos_boy

Meow Hoes
I think i just struggle vs Starfire as a player then. I thought she beat him.

I always get outzoned and my mobility usually gets shut down. Maybe they're just better than me (most likely)

Catwoman. He possibly could have an easier time I guess after the patch. I always thought it was 5-5 but I see where you're coming from, especially reading your scarecrow comments

I did notice one thing you focus on that I dont. Is the post shield bash game, I really should look into the MU specific options.
 

Flamelurkr

Kombatant
If I could I'd like to hear the reasoning behind the flash mu. Have more experience against bb than any other character because I have a friend who mains him. We play every night. Blades destroy flash in neutral. Hitting any button will get you d2 launched and punishing d2 from distance is rough. Flash d2 whifs a lot against his j2 and he can hit confirm. Blade f2 anti airs and controls footsies, my friend only uses f23 when he knows its going to hit. Bladed f2 is really tough for flash to deal with. Bb also has a great wake up that requires completely giving up pressure to punish which kills momentum.

Personally I believe its 5-5 because flash is still the flash but I could see it winning for bb. Deoxys 3 0 bee but thats one set. Its a frustrating mu for flash players I know that much.
 

TyCarter35

Bonafide Jax scrub
@Espio I'm curious to ask how u would play against aquaman as BB? I've seen beetle players play against me in both regular and blade stance. But I agree it's 5-5. I'm down to play the mu with you sometime
 

Espio

Kokomo
If I could I'd like to hear the reasoning behind the flash mu. Have more experience against bb than any other character because I have a friend who mains him. We play every night. Blades destroy flash in neutral. Hitting any button will get you d2 launched and punishing d2 from distance is rough. Flash d2 whifs a lot against his j2 and he can hit confirm. Blade f2 anti airs and controls footsies, my friend only uses f23 when he knows its going to hit. Bladed f2 is really tough for flash to deal with. Bb also has a great wake up that requires completely giving up pressure to punish which kills momentum.

Personally I believe its 5-5 because flash is still the flash but I could see it winning for bb. Deoxys 3 0 bee but thats one set. Its a frustrating mu for flash players I know that much.

It's pretty much the same as the cheetah match up honestly. Beetle would beat the brakes off both of them, but they have excellent come back factor and counter zoning options that allow them to keep up fine. Beetle wins the neutral in both stances and can outspace him pretty reliably, but that ceases to matter when you get put in the blender and that's really the core reasons those are 5-5.



@Espio I'm curious to ask how u would play against aquaman as BB? I've seen beetle players play against me in both regular and blade stance. But I agree it's 5-5. I'm down to play the mu with you sometime
Well if you're on in the next hour or tomorrow before it gets too late we can play.


I think i just struggle vs Starfire as a player then. I thought she beat him.

I always get outzoned and my mobility usually gets shut down. Maybe they're just better than me (most likely)

Catwoman. He possibly could have an easier time I guess after the patch. I always thought it was 5-5 but I see where you're coming from, especially reading your scarecrow comments

I did notice one thing you focus on that I dont. Is the post shield bash game, I really should look into the MU specific options.
I've never been reliably outzoned by a Starfire player unless I make a lot of mistakes and bad reads. The key that you're missing is that you're zoning her out mostly on the ground and just using mobility to check her and evade her and for mind games. You must remember her means of getting you out of the air are all either: risky or cause her to lose ground/zoning advantage.

Shield bash gets a lot of his meter and chip and if a character cannot do much if anything about it, it means he builds meter for pretty free against them. It's big. Some characters you gotta play hella mind games against after they block shield bash, others not so much.

I'm also not sure about Atom but Beetle is definitely one of those characters who has the ability to prevent Atom from building meter which is hugely important to him. Blade stance jump normals are likely never getting anti-aired by Atom.

Not sure if Beetle wins the zoning war per say, but he can easily avoid it all together. Atom has very few options when it comes to dealing with Beetle's mobility, but Atom has some stuff like being able to low profile Beetle's wakeup, can get past Beetle's zoning with trait, and can mash D3 in the neutral for a lot of pretty safe pokes, particularly against Blade stance.

Also tele works well against a lot of oki in the game but I'm sure Beetle has some sort of setups to beat teleport like nearly everyone else does.
In my opinion, there's no need for Beetle to zone Atom and Atom's zoning doesn't really do anything versus his mobility, but Beetle's zoning is faster with quicker recovery on the ground and since the recovery is so good, he can use it to bait teleports that he can punish hard.

The way I'm going to fight Atom is standing outside of his range where his normals can reach me but mine reach him and just play reactionary and harass him. At that range if he makes a bad read on a projectile, low profile attempt etc he is eating a full combo and Beetle always has meter if he plays half decent so I'm bounce cancelling that into almost 500 damage on Atom or what have you. The risk reward is on my side in these matters.

Atom isn't a character I feel concerned about oking anyway as all of his wake ups that are blocked put him at high risk and backdashing pushing him towards the corner so nothing of value is really lost.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
May I ask if someone could provide an overview of BB’s float cancel options? Or if someone could direct me to the appropriate thread? Just want to know my options since both of my mains (Atom and BA) are very weak when put in the corner. Many thanks :)