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Blue Beetle Match Up Chart 2018

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
Looking back on it, I wouldn't be surprised if it's 4-6 for Atom personally. Beetle shuts basically all of Atom's fullscreen tools down and has lots of tools himself which Atom can't deal with like air mobility and long reaching strings. Shield bash is really good against Atom since he can't really enforce anything after he blocks it and low profiling only gets you so far, especially for a move that either requires trait or does like 80 damage in the case of D3.

The way I'm going to fight Atom is standing outside of his range where his normals can reach me but mine reach him and just play reactionary and harass him. At that range if he makes a bad read on a projectile, low profile attempt etc he is eating a full combo and Beetle always has meter if he plays half decent so I'm bounce cancelling that into almost 500 damage on Atom or what have you. The risk reward is on my side in these matters.
This is how you should probably play the Atom MU, just be wily as fuck and force Atom to make some hard reads. Get the life lead and keep it because Atom struggles to get it back is the only other thing I'd add to this.
 

AkioOf100

I play Raph
What about Wowo? Like, I think she does really well against beetle. What are our options? Her space control is much easier than ours and the trades are infinitely in her favor. She can reflect bf2 on reaction, great anti-air/air-to-air. Out-damages us.

I’m not sure what’s making this 5-5 unless the wowo is really aggressive and reckless. She technically has to take 0 damage or chip from us on paper.
 

AkioOf100

I play Raph
I think he loses to Robin too. At the highest level Robins are going to be mixing up their options so much that Beetle has to rely on really hard guesses to compete, especially with his neutral. His smart birdarang anti-airs us, but we can zone him out if we have the life lead. It's just that the fact that he outdamages us so hard makes it reaaaally hard to have the life lead in the matchup. I think we do zone the crap out of him but to an extent. Zoning is very simple to get around if you're patient.
 

Espio

I Keep It Discreet
Lead Moderator
Match up chart updated with the remaining turtles.


May I ask if someone could provide an overview of BB’s float cancel options? Or if someone could direct me to the appropriate thread? Just want to know my options since both of my mains (Atom and BA) are very weak when put in the corner. Many thanks :)
The best thing you can do is delay wake up because jump 2, jump 3, whether you float again, whether you dash forward etc can impact the float mix ups, especially in the corner so your most reliable defense is simply to delay wake up especially in the corner. Another good defense that I use against Blue Beetle is to dash under him as it gets me away from the mix up AND out of the corner.




Looking back on it, I wouldn't be surprised if it's 4-6 for Atom personally. Beetle shuts basically all of Atom's fullscreen tools down and has lots of tools himself which Atom can't deal with like air mobility and long reaching strings. Shield bash is really good against Atom since he can't really enforce anything after he blocks it and low profiling only gets you so far, especially for a move that either requires trait or does like 80 damage in the case of D3.



This is how you should probably play the Atom MU, just be wily as fuck and force Atom to make some hard reads. Get the life lead and keep it because Atom struggles to get it back is the only other thing I'd add to this.

It's the low profiling of important normals/specials, his ability to counter zone and what not that keeps it from there at the moment to me.

I have made his teleport whiff while airborne, but I'm not super sure how reliably consistent that is.


When I get the opportunity to play it more, I could see it becoming 6-4 Beetle's favor, but I'm not sold yet. The thing about Beetle in general, is if you play low risk and just chip away at Atom and characters like them, their options for getting you off your life become hard and if Beetle keeps that aforementioned space you have to take risks to beat him out and when you're wrong, you're eating a full combo or chip you cannot regulate on block.




What about Wowo? Like, I think she does really well against beetle. What are our options? Her space control is much easier than ours and the trades are infinitely in her favor. She can reflect bf2 on reaction, great anti-air/air-to-air. Out-damages us.

I’m not sure what’s making this 5-5 unless the wowo is really aggressive and reckless. She technically has to take 0 damage or chip from us on paper.
Sesal and I have explained this match up in discussions with you multiple times and showed you footage of how to play the match up, you have never been receptive to it and us repeating the same things isn't going to change anything.

Match ups are not played on paper, they are played in sets and the idea that she has to take zero damage from us speaks volumes. Your approach sounds so linear that there's no depth to the meta/mind games to keep her in check.

She cannot parry projectiles while simultaneously zoning or using her footsies she has to commit to one or the other which allows her to be vulnerable and have to play around us if we're smart. Beetle anti-airs her very well and is extremely safe when block pressuring her. We also have great air to airs so I don't see what your point is other than we both check each other. Parry loses to sweep and throws so you can make it an unattractive option in the neutral.

My core point is after all this time, if you're not going to listen to people who consistently do well in the match up, why ask about said match ups?
 

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
After watching/playing Deoxys at SXSW and messing around with him myself, I have to wonder why Aquaman is not considered a losing MU?

- D2 seems to destroy any float shenanigans
- Trait let's him escape most of Beetle's combo starters
- From the Deep counterzones extremely well
- Aqua has great footsies and comparable dog
- Aqua can contest after blocked shield charge fairly well
 

Espio

I Keep It Discreet
Lead Moderator
After watching/playing Deoxys at SXSW and messing around with him myself, I have to wonder why Aquaman is not considered a losing MU?

- D2 seems to destroy any float shenanigans
- Trait let's him escape most of Beetle's combo starters
- From the Deep counterzones extremely well
- Aqua has great footsies and comparable dog
- Aqua can contest after blocked shield charge fairly well

You might be right, but I don't think that's how the match up should be played with relying on unsafe options against a character like Aquaman who has such an excellent trait to get out of mix ups that aren't safe. I

Beetle doesn't have to be that risky as he takes the full damage of normal into shield bash which keeps him safe and doing the full damage. I find Beetle does best playing a competent ground game with periodic air mind games, but the air game shouldn't be his main focus whatsoever.

Other things that are key is proper spacing on shield bash can cause back 1,2 and such to whiff entirely. In trait he does excellent against Aquaman as well since he can punish from the deep pretty reliably from nearly anywhere on the screen, Aquaman has weak movement and backdash game too so if you set him up properly, he can be vulnerable on knockdown.


You're right that he has excellent air space control and doesn't care about certain mix ups due to trait, I will definitely keep this in mind and may change it in a future update.
 
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AkioOf100

I play Raph
The hit adv on her shield jails into another shield toss so we can’t just zone her out in that range nor can we jump freely unless we enter that range with the intention to block a shield toss. When we block a shield toss we can’t dash and her walk speed trumps ours so she’s walking out of sweep range constantly. There isn’t much of a mind game when the Wonder Woman is playing for space control, which she is really good at.

I don’t come on here just to disagree or not take away from what you guys say. I do understand what you’re saying if you do well in the MU. I think the thing is that when I did play against a Wowo player in a set, that Wowo player was extremely knowledgeable of the matchup and how she should play it from her side. Maybe I’m not sure how to play against that particular Wonder Woman, and maybe that particular Wonder Woman player was just so good at fighting beetles that it brought them to think she won the matchup, but I still think it’s fair for me to find some validity in what they say according to the results of our practice and our sets.

If you don’t want me commenting and you really think I’m just here to be an annoyance just let it be known and I’ll get off the topic.

TLDR: I can beat Wowo. I do beat Wowo. It’s just that in a particular set against a particular Wonder Woman, they insisted that if the matchup seemed 5-5 that the previous Wowo I fought were playing it wrong. That’s why I bring up the idea of it being 6-4 in wonder woman’s favor. I bring up the “on paper” facts just because they still play into matchups to an extent.
 

Espio

I Keep It Discreet
Lead Moderator
Nobody is telling you not to comment, but this has been a topic four different times and no progress is made. You feel the way you do about the match up and I cannot sway you nor am I trying to, you are entitled to your opinions, but I'm not gonna keep listing reasons for the convo to never evolve to something deeper or different. Because it has not evolved.

I almost didn't even reply whatsoever because you make statuses and act like people are being so terrible.

Now I could be totally wrong, but nobody is providing me with a credible case to make me switch numbers.

You continue to make the same arguments as 7 months ago too. I have not lost a set to a Wonder Woman since the game came out, should I list it as 6-4 Beetle? That's not how any of this works. See how circular and unproductive that logic is?
 

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
Royal Contributor
When we block a shield toss we can’t dash and her walk speed trumps ours so she’s walking out of sweep range constantly.
Boy if you can't dash after you block a -35 on block move then you need to quit fighting games.

This Wonder Woman upplaying is making me puke.

Sent from my Quantum Computer using TYM Quantum App
 

Espio

I Keep It Discreet
Lead Moderator
Been a while, but the chart has been updated as of September 12th, 2018.


Red Hood has changed to 4-6.
Aquaman to 4-6.
Starfire to 5-5.
Raiden to 6-4.
Flash to 6-4.
 

Crusty

Retired ATM
I know you told me deoxys number disagreed with yours but why the jump from what you conceived as a probable 5-5 to 4-6 from BB.

I don’t have much xp on the RH BB mu, but I’m curious the reasoning.
 

Espio

I Keep It Discreet
Lead Moderator
I know you told me deoxys number disagreed with yours but why the jump from what you conceived as a probable 5-5 to 4-6 from BB.

I don’t have much xp on the RH BB mu, but I’m curious the reasoning.
Beetle gets outzoned and kept out of the air reliably by his air projectile so he has to come in unless he has a significant lifelead.

He also does comparable/better damage and his chip is strong too and his lunge makes Beetle's shield bash meta weaker and since Red Hood wins at a distance escaping doesn't do too much good for Beetle since he wants to be closer AND he has parry that blows up back 3/forward 3's, shield bash, mandible strike and all my forward advancing buttons.
This would be fine, but trait stance Beetle has to contend with his obnoxious parry that leads to good damage so it weakens this stance considerably. He has use sweep to help counter parry and throws, but he still forces Blue Beetle to play around his play style way too much to be 5-5.

I haven't even touched on mine but that forces you to hold oki, hold chip or move and when you move he has options to hit you out of the air, dashing forward etc.
 

Crusty

Retired ATM
Beetle gets outzoned and kept out of the air reliably by his air projectile so he has to come in unless he has a significant lifelead.

He also does comparable/better damage and his chip is strong too and his lunge makes Beetle's shield bash meta weaker and since Red Hood wins at a distance escaping doesn't do too much good for Beetle since he wants to be closer AND he has parry that blows up back 3/forward 3's, shield bash, mandible strike and all my forward advancing buttons.
This would be fine, but trait stance Beetle has to contend with his obnoxious parry that leads to good damage so it weakens this stance considerably. He has use sweep to help counter parry and throws, but he still forces Blue Beetle to play around his play style way too much to be 5-5.

I haven't even touched on mine but that forces you to hold oki, hold chip or move and when you move he has options to hit you out of the air, dashing forward etc.
Palpable points.

Iirc you had a set with Error. If you have the footage, could please you upload it.

Sometimes seeing mus happen helps me.