Block Button Vs B2B. Why does it bother you?

[OG Mannimal]

How does a block button limit your movement? I'm just curious, not trying to be a dick lol

I know you're not trying to be a dick, I'm also not, I just genuinely didn't know what you didn't understand.

I suppose I should have said having a block button restricts the way I like to play the game, which is walking forward and back and playing footsies, which is hard to do in Injustice, but since I play Raven walking back fits my play style. I can move around without holding down a button which stops my movement.

 

[RNLDRGN]

Mortal Kombat (9) does not rely on high/low mixups.

I never played MK9 at a competitive level, I just assumed it had to have high/low mixups since there aren't crossups. So a game with no left/right mixups and no high/low mixups + an unbalanced roster? God, how did ppl love that game competitively? Was it just nothing but dash-blocking and combo breakers? Sounds awful.

 

[SAREDODEVIL]

I do not like back to block for two reasons:

1. Mk9 smoke teleport -> enjoy blocking that one
2. This:

haha also ermac teleport, mileena ex teleport, quan chi sektor, noob

 

[EndofGameBoss]

I hate having to walk backwards to block. I want to block, not increase the distance between me and the opponent.

I actually would prefer it if MK had a system that included neutral-block (basically what Tekken has) in addition to a block button. That is, when you aren't attacking or doing anything, you are automatically considered to be in a blocking-high state. After all, that is basically already what I do in MK. If I'm not attacking or moving, then I'm definitely blocking. It would help to add neutral-block in MK since it would automatically solve the problem of block-release making reversals too difficult.

Your opening statement doesn't make sense to me. The only way you can walk backwards if you are blocking something is if you aren't being hit. Establish a neutral game and press back when you are being attacked. It's nearly the same principle as a block button, minus cross ups.

 

[EndofGameBoss]

i read all these comments that have a bunch of likes when supporting block button i cringe a little inside. MK9 and MKX will be very different, you guys don't realize how many overhead low mix ups i picked up from the gameplay i saw, you think that i won't mix you up in MKX? to everyone that said they feel scrubbed out when they are forced to guess in a 50/50 situation i can't wait to see all of your faces once MKX rolls around, as of right now you can combo off of all d'3 into specials. paulo hinted that it may change later on but thats huge. i feel that the block pressure in this game won't be like MK9, stagger strings, pokes, jab jab jab f3 like MK9 worked because you were afraid to get hit and chip damage was big in MK9. but now we have back dashes, a stamina bar, interactables, a lot of you are in for rude awakening come MKX.

Comboing off of d3's sounds horrible, actually. I hope that is removed.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

^Why? I doubt you will be able to chain d3s so you wouldn't be able to hit confirm or combo into strings. You would basically have to commit to a buffered special. They just need to make the launcher specials unsafe/negative on block or with more startup so you can't combo from a d3.

I never played MK9 at a competitive level, I just assumed it had to have high/low mixups since there aren't crossups. So a game with no left/right mixups and no high/low mixups + an unbalanced roster? God, how did ppl love that game competitively? Was it just nothing but dash-blocking and combo breakers? Sounds awful.

MK9 had decent overhead/low mixups (unless you played Stryker lol!) but nothing OD like they have in Injustice. MK9 pressure was a lot about chip damage, frametraps and footsies. And a little about overhead/low mixups.

I hope MKX pressure resembles more MK9+SF than Injustice. I highly doubt Injustice type mixups would work well in MKX. From the little we know about it anyway... I'm really worried about enhanced throws allowing universal stand resets after juggles.

 

[haketh]

Each time I hear "I WANT TO WALK BACK NOT BLOCK" or "I WANTED TO WALK NOT BE STUCK BLOCKING" complaints I just sigh and shake my head, actually learn games and you won't have these problems.

 

[Shark Tank]

Neither is inherently good or bad for me, it depends on how a specific games mechanics suit it.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

See, you used that as a sentence without saying "In my opinion". There is nothing inherently "fun" about crossups. Making people guess ambiguous crossups is more lazy offense than anything.

I think this says it best what I hate about B2B.

LAZY OFFENSE.

Thing is, B2B lovers would argue that block button is lazy defense and unless you count constantly trying to find the place in the offense to turn advantage to your side as doing something... I can see the block button being LAZY defense.

So, why should one or the other be easier should be the real question...

Neither should be lazy imo.

 

[WakeUp DP]

Well I'm kind of against it.

But FYI I was talking about safe/+frames unreactable overhead/lows not really being any better than ambiguous cross-ups. In response to people saying cross-ups allowed for easy and lazy ways to open people up. They're pretty much equivalent except for the fact that you can only get an ambiguous cross-up setup after a knockdown where as overhead/low is something you have to deal with every time they get close, every time they reset and sometimes at sweep range.

Which is why personally I think one of the two 50/50 options should be slower than the other one to make the mixup fair and humanly reactable. To me this kind of mixup should be about conditioning someone to block low then surprise them with an overhead starter. But if they're looking out for it they should be able to react and block. It shouldn't always be a pure guess. And if you manage to block their high reward mixup you should be rewarded with the possibility to reverse pressure or escape, not guess again because they are +3.

Injustice is a special case though. A lot of characters need those unfair mixups to maintain any sort of legitimate pressure/momentum or to comeback from behind. Because of pushblock, armored mb b3, wager, poor mobility, no round system and lack of comeback mechanic. Without the vortexes, the zoners and footsie characters would completely dominate Injustice. And they already kinda do.

I agreed 100% but I was talking about MK9 JC low or overhead string type of mix ups which are totally reactable.

Inj is just dumb.

 

[Peckapowa]

I never played MK9 at a competitive level, I just assumed it had to have high/low mixups since there aren't crossups. So a game with no left/right mixups and no high/low mixups + an unbalanced roster? God, how did ppl love that game competitively? Was it just nothing but dash-blocking and combo breakers? Sounds awful.

it was pressure oriented due to chip damage, don't pretend injustice is balanced either, because it isn't. it was less about retarded and braindead 50 50 vortexes and waiting to punish dashes ebcasue walk speed is awful

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I think this says it best what I hate about B2B.

LAZY OFFENSE.

Thing is, B2B lovers would argue that block button is lazy defense and unless you count constantly trying to find the place in the offense to turn advantage to your side as doing something... I can see the block button being LAZY defense.

So, why should one or the other be easier should be the real question...

Neither should be lazy imo.

Your sense making hurts my head.

 

[WakeUp DP]

I never played MK9 at a competitive level, I just assumed it had to have high/low mixups since there aren't crossups. So a game with no left/right mixups and no high/low mixups + an unbalanced roster? God, how did ppl love that game competitively? Was it just nothing but dash-blocking and combo breakers? Sounds awful.

You know what happens when you assume right.

 

[Peckapowa]

I agreed 100% but I was talking about MK9 JC low or overhead string type of mix ups which are totally reactable.

Inj is just dumb.

johnny didn't have oh low mixups 21b4 was like +1 on hit did no damage and had pushback, his mixup was whehter he would complete his strings and what string he would do, if he didn't complete his strings he could jail you standing and frame trap.... he was kind of broken up cllose...

 

[Skellington]

I think crossups that can't be seen and determined as crossups even by the attacker are scrubby. And I don't like auto-blocking because I happen to hit back. I SHOULD be hit if I'm trying to walk back from someone and they attack. That's not scrubby, it's in my disadvantage for that and it's what I want.

I have explained this to people before and all I get is "level up bruh"

 

[WakeUp DP]

johnny didn't have oh low mixups 21b4 was like +1 on hit did no damage and had pushback, his mixup was whehter he would complete his strings and what string he would do, if he didn't complete his strings he could jail you standing and frame trap.... he was kind of broken up cllose...

Agreed but that wasn't my point.

 

[Tony at Home]

Your opening statement doesn't make sense to me. The only way you can walk backwards if you are blocking something is if you aren't being hit. Establish a neutral game and press back when you are being attacked. It's nearly the same principle as a block button, minus cross ups.

The problem is when I want to block but I'm not being hit. Obviously there are many moves in the game that are fast enough that I have to be holding back pre-emptively in order to block them, because I can't react to them, but sometimes the opponent doesn't make a move and instead of blocking, I end up just walking backwards.

With the block button, if I brace myself to block a move, and the opponent decides to not make a move, I haven't walked back at all.

This is especially frustrating when I'm blocking against Sinestro's overhead tracking projectile. When I'm online I need to press block quite early to ensure my character is blocking before it hits (lag), and I often end up moving back slightly before my character even blocks the attack. And the last thing I want to do when I'm against Sinestro is give him more space for any reason.

 

[haketh]

I think this says it best what I hate about B2B.

LAZY OFFENSE.

Thing is, B2B lovers would argue that block button is lazy defense and unless you count constantly trying to find the place in the offense to turn advantage to your side as doing something... I can see the block button being LAZY defense.

So, why should one or the other be easier should be the real question...

Neither should be lazy imo.

Please stop talking about mechanics and things you don't understand

 

[Sami]

I'm not going to get into the B2B vs block button debate, but here's some things both sides need to take into account when making really dumb points:

1) Unreactable overhead/low 50/50s are just as scrubby as inescapable ambiguous cross-ups. Yes Injustice has both.
2) Before you vent diarrhea over the keyboard and hit reply, I did not just say that all overhead/low mix-ups are unreactable and that all ambiguous cross-ups are inescapable.
3) Just because something works for SF doesn't mean it should be used for all fighting games, ever.
4) Capcom have had to layer additional defensive mechanics onto SF4 to make back-to-block more usable such as proximity guard (lol) and delayed wake-up to stop those unblockable setups.
5) Just because NRS have issues implementing a block button (please NRS - instant activation when pressed, zero recovery when released besides blockstun) doesn't mean the entire concept of the block button is dumb.
6) MK9 has a completely different pressure/neutral/footsie game compared to the SF4 series - stop comparing the two.
7) SF4's walk-up-then-back-up-and-wiff-punish works not just because of faster walk-speeds but also because the characters have very long limbs and VASTLY reduced start-up frames.
8) Capcom are also partially responsible for MvC3 which is about as shiny of a turd as you can get.
9) Cross-ups are not a side-effect of B2B (I previously said this and I now retract it) - they're a side-effect of using the point of impact for an attack rather than the facing of the attacker - if "back" was determined by pressing the same direction the attacker was facing or jumping in, ambiguous cross-ups would vanish overnight.

10) Neutral guard kthx.

 

[Skellington]

I do not like back to block for two reasons:

1. Mk9 smoke teleport -> enjoy blocking that one
2. This:

I nominate this post for best post of the thread!

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

I never played MK9 at a competitive level, I just assumed it had to have high/low mixups since there aren't crossups. So a game with no left/right mixups and no high/low mixups + an unbalanced roster? God, how did ppl love that game competitively? Was it just nothing but dash-blocking and combo breakers? Sounds awful.

The footsies... there is something very rewarding about being able to mix your opponent up (and open them up) with stagger strings, unconventional moves at unconventional times, and throws without having to use bs cross ups to do so.

Also i loved the poking/counterpoking game it created... along with the whiff punishing.



And whoever was talking about block button restricting movement... I walk back to make someone whiff whenever I want even though I have a block button. Not seeing the sense there...

 

[ChaosTheory]

The problem is when I want to block but I'm not being hit. Obviously there are many moves in the game that are fast enough that I have to be holding back pre-emptively in order to block them, because I can't react to them, but sometimes the opponent doesn't make a move and instead of blocking, I end up just walking backwards.

With the block button, if I brace myself to block a move, and the opponent decides to not make a move, I haven't walked back at all.

This is especially frustrating when I'm blocking against Sinestro's overhead tracking projectile. When I'm online I need to press block quite early to ensure my character is blocking before it hits (lag), and I often end up moving back slightly before my character even blocks the attack. And the last thing I want to do when I'm against Sinestro is give him more space for any reason.

You could also look at that from this offensive POV. If you wanted to close distance and engage your opponent in some sort of pressure-string, and let's say you have an advancing special they have to be wary about... the threat of your advancing special could cause the opponent to stop moving and defend. And that could give you just enough time to close that distance and engage.

I was thinking about this example in terms of MK9. Many, many times I've caught people with a naked Sub-Zero X-Ray because they were backing away from me (not blocking) so that I couldn't get in on them.

**By the same token, I've also been able to close in on opponents who are trying to stay away because I can cover that ground while they're respecting a Slide or X-Ray or whatever.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Please stop talking about mechanics and things you don't understand

I clearly quoted someone who said it was lazy offense and said how I can understand why they would say that... and then how I could see the other side of blocking with a block button being too easy.

Can't help that you failed reading comprehension.

 

[Tony at Home]

Please stop talking about mechanics and things you don't understand

You're misreading his post. He's not saying the argument that he's making is a good one, to call it "lazy offense"- he's just pointing out that the argument Capcom players like to make, that the block button is "lazy defense" is ridiculous and can go both ways.

 

[WakeUp DP]

I dont understand why people are against low pokes comboing into specials. Wouldn't it be good to be able to punish Kitanas d1 on block with a full combo?