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Black Manta's place in the meta

Jelan

Aquaman is dead lel
Premium Supporter
If you're complaining about opening people up, you ain't throwing enough. it's a pretty big part of his gameplan (adds to his stagger game) something to keep em thinking. And when you actually land the hit your oki is pretty damn good. He's a defensive neutral character with good chip. He can make meterless manta ray safe dependent on spacing which means he's building tons of meter. People don't say "Aquaman is bad cuz no 50/50's" it's the same basic idea only Manta has better oki and mobility to compensate for the lack of tentacle. His counter zoning is good, he's got good buttons, good AAs, a STUPID jump in normal in J3, good chip, good meterbuild. Idk what else you'd want in a character like this.

TL;DR
Apparently defensive=bad unless you're aquaman.
Not like there are a ton of people shouting Aquaman is sooooo good nowadays.

Furthermor, Black Manta is 'fine'. As in he is not utter trash but not exceptional either so probably no changes in the foreseeable future.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
I've been maining him since release and I agree with much of what's being said here. I think Manta is a solid bait and punish character. His float cancels are definitely his meta, but there are some execution barriers. Even if you do get the float pressure down, a smart opponent always has a way out.

IMO he is a fun character and lends himself to creativity more than anyone else in the roster. I'm too much of a pleb to put him on a tier list, but solid mid tier sounds about right. Not getting stuffed out teleport would be a godsend!
How does he pressure with float cancels, what does he do?
 

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
@CrazyFingers I would argue current Aquaman still has more relevant place in today's game because his defensive tools (From the Deep, long range b1/f2, trait, d2 anti air, 6 frame d1) really dominate certain characters. Manta's defensive tools just aren't as good imo.

For example, Manta may be a better pick vs zoners like Fate and Ivy because of his mobility. But why would a tournament player switch to him instead of picking characters that have even better movement/counterzoning options (Superman, Supergirl, etc.)?
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
I think he has great spacing and everything else is pretty average.



Imo Cyrax was probably high tier but we just didn't have enough time.
all his set-ups were techable or delayable on reaction, all you could do was disguise them enough that your opponent couldn't recognise them easily

and that's before they all got destroyed by universal double armor
 

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
So everyone more or less agrees with my assessment of Manta. Damn, I was hoping somebody would swoop in and provide some secret knowledge.
 
i think if he could float for longer that would be a reasonable buff, it would make his neutral more interesting or better movement in the float. He''s got very good footsies, but so do other characters who have stronger damage / and or better mixups / and/or more oppressive options. Making him kind of purposeless in comp. play outside of the lack of experience with him.
 

honeybooboo

I speak truth, no lie
So i played manta from release to raidens release.
My opinion is he's not utter trash, sub is about the only character i struggle against.
I grab alot and thats how i get my damage but then again i play online.
I do alot of the b2 staggers "i think thats the low starter" into either the oh or floatxx3 ex missle and dash up and continue pressure. Pretty much my gameplan.
As far as his place in the meta, i think he's pretty fair you honestly dont have to worry about a hard counter pick and as far as "dirt" i think his mobilty is pretty dirty
He honestly doesnt need buffs if you ask me. Maybe the tele can get a buff but im still on the fence on that one...
 

Matthew Phelps

GOTS HeavyHandz
@ATP2014 I see you over here talking bout Manta.. :) We need to run that back. Manta does well against Dr Fate and decent against Deadshot too. It just takes one projectile read for tele punish. Manta is legit. his B11 string is a nice stagger even though first hit is high.. it is still an advancing move that is plus. Being that b11u3d2 Has good hit advantage on block ads more to his pressure game. He may not have the best move set.. but his frame data makes up for it. I like cancelling into float on different strings. We need that run back btw.
 

CapedBaldy

I am not Tyler Perry.
How does he pressure with float cancels, what does he do?
F2 and 12 are plus on block. Most characters, in my experience, can't interrupt a flight cancel into a move like j2 or maybe even j3 after these two strings in particular. From flight cancel j2, you can go into 123 which is safe on block and very hit confirmable. If 123 hits, you get a combo. On block you can go into MB manta rays or cancel 12 into trait for more shenanigans. You can alternate F2 and 12 for other strings like 3, B2, F21, B22, and 123 (in order from most to least advantageous after flight canceling). By flight canceling from different attacks, your opponent wont know where the gap is so they have to guess. Once I condition my opponent to respect the flight cancel, they start letting me get away with things like canceling into missiles (huge block advantage) and throwing.

Keep in mind, I'm still fairly new to the game so this may be gimmicky and not viable against a pro. But I think float canceling is a huge part of his game plan and I've seen a lot of success with it online and in casuals.
 

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
I was under the impression that float cancels off all strings/normals could be interrupted. How did you test the f2 and 12 float cancel advantage?

@Matthew Phelps if my Manta is buns, your Manta is....
 
I think hes a bit underrated. his bf2 is very solid, Kills armor and some wakeups are just nuetralized. Hes footies are awesome and I really dig his creative moveset. his b22 is surprisingly good and catches a lot of players off guard. his pressure is solo as well. Btw I usually use jump 2 when in trait. it keeps the opponent in the air longer.
 

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
After watching high-level Manta play for the last few months, I wanted to come in and say I was wrong. I apologize for downplaying Manta.

His top-tier walk speed and footsies, combined with a great meterless combo off b11 and unpredictable float shenanigans, have changed my opinion. While not the absolute best, I have Black Manta in the tier right below Catwoman/Supergirl. Probably top 5 material imo.
 

tatterbug4

Bug of tater's
I think I generally agree. When this character came out and I saw his trailer I was thinking he was gonna have some crazy good tech but he seems pretty straight forward. Other than the rocket cancels

Why can't we get characters with loads of tech and stuff like flash.

I don't think he's bad. But I don't think he's great either
 

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
After watching high-level Manta play for the last few months, I wanted to come in and say I was wrong. I apologize for downplaying Manta.

His top-tier walk speed and footsies, combined with a great meterless combo off b11 and unpredictable float shenanigans, have changed my opinion. While not the absolute best, I have Black Manta in the tier right below Catwoman/Supergirl. Probably top 5 material imo.
This is actually so refreshing to see, I don't even have enough Manta data to form my own opinion yet as I don't play against the character a lot and haven't really watched any high level gameplay of him, but respect for actually changing your opinion respectfully, like a normal human instead of being an asshole about it.

How bad is it that I'm genuinely shocked about someone acting like a normal human being on here lol