Best and Worst Characters in Beta

[Juggs]

No, there are a lot of gaps. A LOT. And armor can destroy all the setups if timed correctly. SonicFox vs Rewind set shows how to deal. Seeing Tekken Master (EVO finalist) and a lot of pros crying during a BETA about a pressure full of gaps, limited by time and which puts the opponent on bad situations is cringe. I mean, a lot of people said MK community is not ready for a puppet character, and that’s true: all everyone wants seems to be the simple and bland “your turn, my turn”.

If you time it right, there aren’t very many gaps, plain and simple. Idk what the point is of being delusional and not acknowledging how ridiculous the character is. No one is saying remove the puppet or anything, lol. He’s just clearly a ridiculous character. Again, not sure why that fact would make someone angry.

 

[SaltShaker]

Hilarious to see the Kenshi downplay has already started. Clock it boys, negative 18 days into the game's release.

Johnny when he gets in on you with his special canceling active is a "ah well, guess I'll die" moment everytime.

Yea, and try getting knocked down as Kenshi when in Sento stance and tell me how strong he is.

 

[Juggs]

Yea, and try getting knocked down as Kenshi when in Sento stance and tell me how strong he is.

Him having a weakness doesn’t mean he’s not a strong character…

 

[kabelfritz]

Johnny when he gets in on you with his special canceling active is a "ah well, guess I'll die" moment everytime.

i think every johnny mixup can be fuzzy guarded. "ah well, guess I'll die" is what i think when he hits me.

 

[SaltShaker]

Him having a weakness doesn’t mean he’s not a strong character…

Except he has a decent amount of weaknesses. I agree with a lot of the sentiment being stated. People saw Sonic "destroy people with Kenshi" so they automatically assumed the character is godlike, but he has a couple of very glaring flaws. A couple that get him blown up pretty hard too. Specifically his non-existent defense when Sento is out and mid screen big gaps in pressure (in corner it's better though).

If you compare him to say, Sub-Zero, there appears to be an early gap between the two that should be somewhat clear to see. Yet most people think Kenshi is godlike that didn't even use him or face him. He's good, but nowhere near as good as what people think he is from what we've seen so far, and I think more experience is going to show that post-release.

 

[kabelfritz]

Except he has a decent amount of weaknesses. I agree with a lot of the sentiment being stated. People saw Sonic "destroy people with Kenshi" so they automatically assumed the character is godlike, but he has a couple of very glaring flaws. A couple that get him blown up pretty hard too. Specifically his non-existent defense when Sento is out and mid screen big gaps in pressure (in corner it's better though).

If you compare him to say, Sub-Zero, there appears to be an early gap between the two that should be somewhat clear to see. Yet most people think Kenshi is godlike that didn't even use him or face him. He's good, but nowhere near as good as what people think he is from what we've seen so far, and I think more experience is going to show that post-release.

his weaknesses are definitely the fact that his overhead zoning is jumpable and that the second sento summon takes 2 activations. i think the main goal is to prevent him from getting it out at all.

 

[kabelfritz]

btw heres a video of semiijs li mei doing some work against kenshi. no downplay, just gameplay.

 

[SaltShaker]

his weaknesses are definitely the fact that his overhead zoning is jumpable and that the second sento summon takes 2 activations. i think the main goal is to prevent him from getting it out at all.

The way the Kameo system/meter works with his Sento is also a fair trade off. I think he's a double edge sword, where as the game develops people will see a lot of what he currently does isn't as real as it seems, but also things he'll do in the future might be much more real than we currently know.

 

[kabelfritz]

The way the Kameo system/meter works with his Sento is also a fair trade off. I think he's a double edge sword, where as the game develops people will see a lot of what he currently does isn't as real as it seems, but also things he'll do in the future might be much more real than we currently know.

yes of course, how could i forget the lack of kameo. agree with the rest you said, but i see one thing thoughout all matches: kenshi might not get sento out for rounds, but when he does its lifebar melting time (unless you make a lucky guess).

 

[Amplified$hotz]

Cage is the best. Kitana is the worst.

 

[SaltShaker]

yes of course, how could i forget the lack of kameo. agree with the rest you said, but i see one thing thoughout all matches: kenshi might not get sento out for rounds, but when he does its lifebar melting time (unless you make a lucky guess).

My favorite part was on knockdowns the armor breakers with Sento lol. I could feel the confusion of opponents coming through the screen haha.

 

[Deleted member 59910]

yes of course, how could i forget the lack of kameo. agree with the rest you said, but i see one thing thoughout all matches: kenshi might not get sento out for rounds, but when he does its lifebar melting time (unless you make a lucky guess).

But Sub is melting life bars if you don’t guess the low/overhead mix up correctly. If Johnny touches you with 1 ex meter and hyper meter, bye bye 50%. Imo would be fair to nerf Spirit chip damage. You can’t combo from an ambush kameo move already (nerfed after stress test). And that’s it.

 

[Demon_0]

Kenshi is not ridiculous. SonicFox is ridiculous. He could make an ant look like the best character in a fighting game.

People didn't have time nor will to test Kenshi in beta but as someone who only played him throu stress test and beta i can tell you - once people lab him and see how many things are unsafe and how limited he is in Sento stance i doubt anybody will think he is "ridiculous".

He is a good character with a lot of tools but is also very complicated to play and unsafe on like 80% of the things people saw Sonic did(zoning, puppet "setups" and gaps). Barely anybody punished it thou coz again there were no time nor the option to lab him. This will change in time thou.

Going by beta standard Sub Zero was beyond ridiculous. With almost every option at his disposal.

People think Kenshi is way better than he really is coz of SonicFox and that's bad for the character.

I disagree. Just watch him play Rewind's Cage, he literally destroyed him in every way.

 

[kabelfritz]

My favorite part was on knockdowns the armor breakers with Sento lol. I could feel the confusion of opponents coming through the screen haha.

lol armor breakers exist in this game? shows what i know after 3 days of beta.

 

[kabelfritz]

But Sub is melting life bars if you don’t guess the low/overhead mix up correctly. If Johnny touches you with 1 ex meter and hyper meter, bye bye 50%. Imo would be fair to nerf Spirit chip damage. You can’t combo from an ambush kameo move already (nerfed after stress test). And that’s it.

i m not discussing whats OP and whats not right now. just what is. its not like theres a demo doomsday situation here.

 

[Arqwart]

On the topic of kameos, it really did look like Frost was the most universally useful across the available kameos by a LARGE margin. She didn't allow the level of insane combo damage that Jax, Sonya, or Kano did, but it looked like Frost had the best combination of utility options that literally every character could utilize well: pushback + chip + safety, combo extender, ball setups, and the turbo speed ice spike (which I assume had invuln frames as a wakeup option?).

Kano is the only one that appeared to compete due to knives and ball being amazing safety, extension, and pressure options.

 

[kabelfritz]

On the topic of kameos, it really did look like Frost was the most universally useful across the available kameos by a LARGE margin. She didn't allow the level of insane combo damage that Jax, Sonya, or Kano did, but it looked like Frost had the best combination of utility options that literally every character could utilize well: pushback + chip + safety, combo extender, ball setups, and the turbo speed ice spike (which I assume had invuln frames as a wakeup option?).

Kano is the only one that appeared to compete due to knives and ball being amazing safety, extension, and pressure options.

subzero didnt get a confirmable 50/50 with frost though, but with sonya.

 

[Arqwart]

subzero didnt get a confirmable 50/50 with frost though, but with sonya.

Of course there'll be specific roster & kameo combos with unique strengths; but again, Frost just looked to be so damn useful across every situation with every character in every matchup. That's a LOT of utility.

 

[Juggs]

Except he has a decent amount of weaknesses. I agree with a lot of the sentiment being stated. People saw Sonic "destroy people with Kenshi" so they automatically assumed the character is godlike, but he has a couple of very glaring flaws. A couple that get him blown up pretty hard too. Specifically his non-existent defense when Sento is out and mid screen big gaps in pressure (in corner it's better though).

If you compare him to say, Sub-Zero, there appears to be an early gap between the two that should be somewhat clear to see. Yet most people think Kenshi is godlike that didn't even use him or face him. He's good, but nowhere near as good as what people think he is from what we've seen so far, and I think more experience is going to show that post-release.

Okay. Him having weaknesses doesn’t mean he’s not a strong character.

Idk if people’s minds are just poisoned by past top tier characters in NRS games or what. But a “strong character” isn’t a character that has all strengths and no weaknesses. That’s what we call an overpowered, broken or “God Tier” character.

Also, it’s not like it’s that difficult to get Sento out. You can literally combo into a Sento summon METERLESS for over 40% damage. Then they have to either sit there and eat a ton of chip while simultaneously guessing correctly over and over, or hope that the Kenshi player messes up and provides a long enough gap so that you can do an armored reversal (while already having had to guess correctly to get to that point btw).

Oh and it wasn’t just SonicFox who was doing well with Kenshi and it wasn’t just SF who made him look ridiculous. Like, just because y’all weren’t able to figure out the cheap stuff with Kenshi, that doesn’t mean no one else but SonicFox was, lmao.

 

[kabelfritz]

Idk if people’s minds are just poisoned by past top tier characters in NRS games or what.

oh yes

 

[Immortal]

If you time it right, there aren’t very many gaps, plain and simple. Idk what the point is of being delusional and not acknowledging how ridiculous the character is. No one is saying remove the puppet or anything, lol. He’s just clearly a ridiculous character. Again, not sure why that fact would make someone angry.

There is no need to call anybody being delusional or whatever coz we disagree with you. Be polite.

We will know for sure who was right and who was wrong soon enough.

 

[SaltShaker]

lol armor breakers exist in this game? shows what i know after 3 days of beta.

Sounds like I've already said too much. #BuffKenshi

Okay. Him having weaknesses doesn’t mean he’s not a strong character.

Idk if people’s minds are just poisoned by past top tier characters in NRS games or what. But a “strong character” isn’t a character that has all strengths and no weaknesses. That’s what we call an overpowered, broken or “God Tier” character.

Also, it’s not like it’s that difficult to get Sento out. You can literally combo into a Sento summon METERLESS for over 40% damage. Then they have to either sit there and eat a ton of chip while simultaneously guessing correctly over and over, or hope that the Kenshi player messes up and provides a long enough gap so that you can do an armored reversal (while already having had to guess correctly to get to that point btw).

Oh and it wasn’t just SonicFox who was doing well with Kenshi and it wasn’t just SF who made him look ridiculous. Like, just because y’all weren’t able to figure out the cheap stuff with Kenshi, that doesn’t mean no one else but SonicFox was, lmao.

But that's actually what I said LOL. That he was a strong character with glaring weaknesses. Pretty much exactly how strong characters should be designed.

And not sure if you've read my other posts in here, but like, right above I was talking about Kenshi's armor breaking setups. Among other things, I found and used tons of dirt.

My point was he isn't this godlike broken character that is so overwhelming like many people advertised. And it isn't as strong as just sitting there hoping to guess correctly, as midscreen there are a lot of gaps in the setups that some you can even poke out without armor. In the corner yea, it can be rough, but midscreen im willing to say 75% of the pressure that currently happens won't happen when people have MU Exp. When you do make the right read, or poke/armor out of pressure, he's pretty free to everything when pressured while Sento is out. If anything, I think it's very well balance by NRS, as he has a bit of a glass cannon in a way type of feel. But people are overreacting to things they haven't been able to lab out the counters to yet, as even most people on this site make statements like "I didn't even face a Kenshi the entire weekend". Well if people didn't even PLAY against a Kenshi at all, or didn't use him either, and only saw stuff online by others, how can they determine something is so strong? That's what I'm saying.

 

[Juggs]

There is no need to call anybody being delusional or whatever coz we disagree with you. Be polite.

We will know for sure who was right and who was wrong soon enough.

You can strawman all you’d like, but I never said anyone was delusional because they “disagreed with me”. The fact is that Kenshi is a strong character. If you want to deny this for whatever reason, that is literally the definition of being “delusional”. It isn’t rude or impolite to call a spade a spade.

But that's actually what I said LOL. That he was a strong character with glaring weaknesses. Pretty much exactly how strong characters should be designed.

Then idk what you’re arguing against. If you truly acknowledge that he’s a ridiculous character, then that’s that.

My point was he isn't this godlike broken character that is so overwhelming like many people advertised.

Idk how many people have been saying he’s a “godlike broken character”, I actually don’t think I’ve seen anyone say that. Not that it hasn’t happened, I just haven’t seen it.

But, he definitely IS an overwhelming character to deal with especially when he has his puppet Sento out.

And it isn't as strong as just sitting there hoping to guess correctly, as midscreen there are a lot of gaps in the setups that some you can even poke out without armor. In the corner yea, it can be rough, but midscreen im willing to say 75% of the pressure that currently happens won't happen when people have MU Exp. When you do make the right read, or poke/armor out of pressure, he's pretty free to everything when pressured while Sento is out. If anything, I think it's very well balance by NRS, as he has a bit of a glass cannon in a way type of feel. But people are overreacting to things they haven't been able to lab out the counters to yet, as even most people on this site make statements like "I didn't even face a Kenshi the entire weekend". Well if people didn't even PLAY against a Kenshi at all, or didn't use him either, and only saw stuff online by others, how can they determine something is so strong? That's what I'm saying.

Hardly any gaps ≠ no gaps. But also, even if there was a ton of gaps, that doesn’t mean they’re super easy to punish. Because all Kenshi has to do is block when there is a gap. You try to punish, then get blown up. Aside from that, the gaps aren’t super easy to read. Most of the time the only reason people find the gaps is because they’re mashing in block stun. Y’all don’t seem to understand the extent of what Kenshi is capable of which is fine. The problem is when you act like it doesn’t exist for whatever reason.

Here is a good litmus test. Do you think it’s completely fair game, or perhaps broken to be able to attack with Sento while Kenshi is blocking?

 

[Immortal]

You can strawman all you’d like, but I never said anyone was delusional because they “disagreed with me”. The fact is that Kenshi is a strong character. If you want to deny this for whatever reason, that is literally the definition of being “delusional”. It isn’t rude or impolite to call a spade a spade.

You seem to be angry for whatever reason. Everybody agree here Kenshi is a GOOD character, we don't agree with your statement that he is ridiculous. Good and ridiculous isn't the same, at least for us.

Also you seem to think your OPINION is a fact for whatever reason. It isn't. It's just an opinion. Same goes for us. We also have an opinion, which isn't the same as yours.

Who is right and who is wrong - remain to be seen. Nothing is a fact about balance in MK1 at this time.

 

[Juggs]

You seem to be angry for whatever reason. Everybody agree here Kenshi is a GOOD character, we don't agree with your statement that he is ridiculous. Good and ridiculous isn't the same, at least for us.

Also you seem to think your OPINION is a fact for whatever reason. It isn't. It's just an opinion. Same goes for us. We also have an opinion, which isn't the same as yours.

Who is right and who is wrong - remain to be seen. Nothing is a fact about balance in MK1 at this time.

There is no need to accuse anyone of being angry just because you disagree with them.

Kenshi IS ridiculous. This actually isn’t my opinion. The point of contention is whether you acknowledge the fact that he’s ridiculous or not. Some of you seem to be unwilling to do so, which is fine. Y’all just haven’t seen enough evidence to convince you yet, which is understandable. If I hadn’t seen enough evidence I’d be in the same boat. In due time, as they say.