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Strategy Bane 1.06 Corner Mix-Ups

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
I didn't even know you had a real job, I thought you just lurked TYM all day waiting for mention of Bane.
lol I don't just have a job, I take care of family too. I'd travel to a lot of tourneys if I weren't clocking 48 hours and watching a sibling 10 years my younger.
I hardily have any time for TYM, and I haven't recorded in so long because college just started back up too.
 
Haha did you guys hear I got fired and made this topic just to cheer me up? :p

If so, its sweet but you really don't have to talk tech with me, I know I can get overbearing with it.
damn, sorry to hear that.

it's not that, i think that we've just hit that point that we talked about before, the meta is advancing. remember when we thought tick throws were just an afterthought? people are learning bane, we gotta explore him and stay ahead of the curve.
 

Error

DF2+R2
lol I don't just have a job, I take care of family too. I'd travel to a lot of tourneys if I weren't clocking 48 hours and watching a sibling 10 years my younger.
I hardily have any time for TYM, and I haven't recorded in so long because college just started back up too.
I was joking, I'm not nearly on TYM enough to see when you post. Speaking of college, I have class in the morning and I'm still up (1:50am over here) -_-
 

Error

DF2+R2
remember when we thought tick throws were just an afterthought?
I'm still so jealous at how easy Grundy's tick throws are, I wish I could use 1/b2xx grab, (which are crazy good) as easily as Grundy can (normal + 4) But then I remember what happens when I press 4 with Bane and laugh.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Give me about 10 minutes in the lab. I'll have about 10 set-ups you can use that do mix-ups of some sort.

b.23 dash under j.2. Against a lot of characters barring a few (teleporters, venom uppercut with its lolwtf hitbox) it reverses wake-up direction.
 
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Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
I'll do that tomorrow, I need to sleep. Good shit though
Like I'm doing it to MMH.
He is pushing in my direction, but then flips around. Likewise when people are blocking, they look like they aren't getting crossed-up (their character models are facing towards the front) but the moment its about to hit they flip around.

Its like a cross-up, but it can be not a cross up. I found some funny stuff, namely Scorpion's flipkick will trade (in your favour) and his teleport punch will actually put him right back in the corner.
Shazam will have to do an eluding to get out, but depending on the move you do (say, doing a f.2.d instead of a jump splash) will cause him to stay in the corner. Also oddly enough, Bane can't jump backwards after doing this to a character like Shazam who has a persistant hurtbox while moving back.

You can make Lex charge the corner and whiff under you (considering the huge hitbox that's really good) and you can punish him for a full combo afterwards.


Lets take Batgirl for example.
Doing a 113 into sweep, then dash n.j. (slight delay) j.d.3 will stuff batwheel out of the gate (full combo) AND hit her out of smokebomb.

Dashing out is also difficult, namely because of the cross-up/non-CU nature of the move. I've yet to figure out why, but sometimes the move crosses up while other times it doesn't. This means an opponent trying to mash out a dash will end up with double reversed controls within a short part of the move (which causes the wake-up problems) and may cause the opponent to actually forward-dash into your attack resulting in a free combo and more corner pressure.

From what I've seen thus far, the opponent's cross-up or non cross-up is stance specific, though it seems the game is picky about which one is and isn't. From what I can tell, its the stance opposite whatever the match starts in. Now while this sounds odd, to put it in perspective this is only when blocking/dashing is concerned. For example, an opponent will always have their wake-up move reversed using this. The main benefit comes in that certain moves (when input correctly given the double control flip) will hit in one stance and whiff in the other. One such example is Flash's Flying Uppercut. In one stance, he will tag you on the noggin for 7%, however in the other you float down next to him and get to abuse the whiff for a full combo punish. However his other wake-up, being the flying charge, will always be reversed in the corner and fully punishable.

Now while certain characters like Shazam and Deathstroke have ways out of it (given they do the proper directions), certain other characters do not such as Lex Luthor (who is incapable or dashing out at all due to his laggy dash and huge hurtbox, and whose charge gets reversed and beaten out) and Lobo (whose wake-ups get reversed and whose grab is too low and angled to hit Bane's jump arc).

Characters like Ares and Zatanna who depend on multiple inputs to do the proper teleport will possibly have trouble against this on account of the quick flipping controls. Other characters like Hawkgirl and Batgirl (as previously stated) require certain timings but those timings are mostly universal within that one character.

Certain characters like Scorpion will be able to do an anti-air but it'll trade in your favour, other like Bane won't be affected at all due to the armor and hitbox but can be abused more for incorrectly input attacks.


I'm looking into a lot of moves, but for the hard knockdowns I've found sweep and to some extent f.2.d.3 are the best options for doing this, with sweep being the most reliable for the multiple control flip as well as the reversed wake-up directions.
 
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Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
So long story short, don't do it to shazam because no matter what he guesses he is safe, be careful about doing it to other Banes and deathstroke, outside of that its pretty much free game and you can avoid a lot of supers this way.
 

Error

DF2+R2
F2D3 in the corner makes F3 (no dash, just F3 after you hit them) cross up, and I think that sweep wake up reversal also works off of unteched double punch in the corner.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
@Error @BiPolarExxpress @GGA Max



First video shows the best example I could find, as you can see Lex charges into the corner but faces the opposite way as you land behind him.
Also shows my theory about the stances. Since b.2 always flips the opponent's stance, it shows on one stance the splash doesn't cross up, but on the other it does.
(the first is done facing the camera, the second is facing away. After the b.2, the first ends as them facing away while the second ends with them facing.)
Finally, it shows the tick throw you can get if the opponent blocks correctly.


This video shows the directional inputs your opponent would need in order to block.
I show the basic cross-up, a double flip (where the opponent would need to block towards the corner again), and even a triple flip (where the opponent's directions flip 3 times).
I did this by setting the CPU to record walking backwards. Because of how the recording works, the CPU will always be walking away from your characters, meaning those directions are what the opponent would have to deal with.

At one point I got 4 and even 5 direction swaps, but couldn't replicate it for recording. Most commonly I got the basic and double, but the triple flip has the final two directions come out scary fast. Rewatch it and note how quickly they would have to switch to not get caught.

While, in the end, its still a 50-50 those directional changes affect their wake-up attacks as well and force them to block correctly otherwise they eat a splash and a reentry into corner oki.


These are the best examples I could find to showcase this at like 3:30AM so enjoy.
 

Error

DF2+R2
@Doombawkz So B23 B1 D2 D3 is 18% unvenomed, I believe that's the optimized combo to set this up

22 knockdown dash forward also seems to reverse inputs in the corner.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
@Doombawkz So B23 B1 D2 D3 is 18% unvenomed, I believe that's the optimized combo to set this up

22 knockdown dash forward also seems to reverse inputs in the corner.
Optimized venomless, I think the best is j.d.3 113 d.2 d.3, but don't quote me on that.