Auto-Building Meter - A Step Backwards?

[JBeezYBabY]

It rewards walking backwards and turtling... is that really a good thing?

If you're Justin Wong, yes

 

[BecomingDeath13]

My main concern is gaining meter while retreating. If your resources are empty why would you go in if you know your meter will be back for free?

 

[B. Shazzy]

Because the context is sematics for an excuse to cry for no reason. Im still waiting on how wasting 2 bars on combo off the bat is broken.

Alright why dont they just give everybody the same moves and the same jump ins and the same etc

It would be so balanced right bro isnt that the only thing that matters to you. Nobody could cry about anything

 

[Eddy Wang]

To put it simple:

Everyone has their Imba moves from the get go, no need to force first hit bonus.

The biggest play here will be on how you manage to survive while on cooldown, because without that meter there is also a bunch of things you can't do.
You're prone to oki, you can't escape combos, though you can perfect block if you don't have one of each to burn there is no punish, and you can't amplify anything.

So the game still has features which are pretty important which are being overseed by the stamina meter, either is mobility, power, imba moves, whatever pretty important aspects of the game, not just offensive amplified moves because that's just stuf from surface level.

 

[Marlow]

If your resources are empty why would you go in if you know your meter will be back for free?

I assume it would be dependent on the situation. Maybe you've pushed the opponent in the corner, or you've scored a knockdown, so pushing your advantage becomes a priority. Maybe your character is geared towards in your face rushdown, so staying close at all times is a higher priority than meter. Maybe it's simply more dangerous for your character to try and disengage due to limited mobility or your opponents move set. I'm not so conerned about meter determining the pace of the match.

 

[trufenix]

im imagining tournament scenes where players go ham at each other and then in mutual agreement retract to their corners when the meter is empty

That literally happens in street fighter matches.

 

[MagicMan357]

Alright why dont they just give everybody the same moves and the same jump ins and the same etc

It would be so balanced right bro isnt that the only thing that matters to you. Nobody could cry about anything

Yep exactly no real excuse hahahahaha youre exposed

 

[MagicMan357]

That literally happens in street fighter matches.

SHHHHHHH youre not supposed to critique the master race game!

 

[BecomingDeath13]

I assume it would be dependent on the situation. Maybe you've pushed the opponent in the corner, or you've scored a knockdown, so pushing your advantage becomes a priority. Maybe your character is geared towards in your face rushdown, so staying close at all times is a higher priority than meter. Maybe it's simply more dangerous for your character to try and disengage due to limited mobility or your opponents move set. I'm not so conerned about meter determining the pace of the match.

You make some good points. It's more of a fringe reaction from me. Just want the game to be the best it can be.

 

[Marlow]

You make some good points. It's more of a fringe reaction from me. Just want the game to be the best it can be.

Same here. Maybe it will end up having some negative consequences, but for now I'm really excited about it.

 

[Lyspher]

I, for one, am anticipating and hoping to abuse the shit out of this mechanic in my rushdown game by applying staggers, pokes, throws and oki combined with the avalanche of EX moves and get-out-of-jail free cards i'll get by pressuring my opponent into a panicked stupor. Timed meter doesn't necessarily benefit one style over the other; it all depends on how NRS plays their cards with it - and if Geras' long ass command grab animation is anything to go by, there will be good ways for a rushdown player to get their own butter.

 

[Zaccel]

Timed meter doesn't necessarily benefit one style over the other; it all depends on how NRS plays their cards with it - and if Geras' long ass command grab animation is anything to go by, there will be good ways for a rushdown player to get their own butter.

That's an interesting thought I hadn't considered--does the meter restart its cooldown when the amplify begins, or ends? Might make certain long-ass attacks really useful for maintaining pressure like you're suggesting here.

 

[MagicMan357]

I, for one, am anticipating and hoping to abuse the shit out of this mechanic in my rushdown game by applying staggers, pokes, throws and oki combined with the avalanche of EX moves and get-out-of-jail free cards i'll get by pressuring my opponent into a panicked stupor. Timed meter doesn't necessarily benefit one style over the other; it all depends on how NRS plays their cards with it - and if Geras' long ass command grab animation is anything to go by, there will be good ways for a rushdown player to get their own butter.

defense says hi

 

[ShepherdOfFire]

i always thought meter building went the wrong way in mk: gain by hitting on block and getting hit. basically meter build was a reward for playing badly. i'm glad thats gone.

Hitting on block is not playing badly, well, not everytime at least. I see it more like "you are punished if you are too defensive" for the opponent. The "old" system has its pros and cons but it worked well for MKX imo.
This new system can give interesting strategies.

 

[EdenianWarrior]

I’m being optimistic, so if it really was THAT bad then it could be easily changed in one single patch so

 

[DDustiNN]

So it turns out the meter doesn’t refill at a single constant rate. The refill speed is based on the strength of the move you used it on.

https://www.gamecrate.com/mortal-kombat-11-developer-interview-towers-of-time-how-gear-works-secret-characters/21980

 

[kabelfritz]

GC: We have an offense and a defense meter now. How do you fill those up?

PG: They'll just fill up over time, at a rate that's dependent on what you did. So if it's a move that's really strong, it will fill up slower once you use it, and if it's something that's not as strong then it will fill up quicker. But the idea is to make it so that you play the game and you don't really have to look at it until you need it. We're trying to make it so you can just play and do moves at your own pace, and those are more of the constratints, so you can't spam moves and things like that. But it just fills up over time depending on what you did.

 

[Shark Tank]

What does strong mean in that context? Is he implying that every meter move has it's own recharge modifier?

 

[KRYS9984]

I don't think auto-building meter will be an issue; it might seem odd at first but I'm sure it will become second nature to manage. Think of it as a MKX stamina / Injustice trait; when it depletes, your options are a little more limited but that doesn't prevent you from actually playing the neutral game.

Walking backwards to regain meter might seem like the best strategy at first but you're giving up something important, stage positioning. If you're passive and allow the opponent to walk you down while building bar, you might find yourself in the corner faster than you know it (which is not ideal).

The only things I would really change about the meter system is the input to meter-burn / amplify attacks to a single button (the standard NRS way) and the appearance of the meter bars. I did a quick edit to the current layout to what I personally think would look better and more consistent with the life bar design. I don't have a good photo editing program and had to use standard Microsoft Paint / Photo Editor (which is why it doesn't look perfect) but I'm sure you get the idea.

 

[DDustiNN]

I don't think auto-building meter will be an issue; it might seem odd at first but I'm sure it will become second nature to manage. Think of it as a MKX stamina / Injustice trait; when it depletes, your options are a little more limited but that doesn't prevent you from actually playing the neutral game.

Walking backwards to regain meter might seem like the best strategy at first but you're giving up something important, stage positioning. If you're passive and allow the opponent to walk you down while building bar, you might find yourself in the corner faster than you know it (which is not ideal).

The only things I would really change about the meter system is the input to meter-burn / amplify attacks to a single button (the standard NRS way) and the appearance of the meter bars. I did a quick edit to the current layout to what I personally think would look better and more consistent with the life bar design. I don't have a good photo editing program and had to use standard Microsoft Paint / Photo Editor (which is why it doesn't look perfect) but I'm sure you get the idea (left edited, right original).

I have a feeling they probably tested that first, before switching to the current style. Honestly I didn’t like it at first. It just feels like a weird corner frame or something, I dunno. But it grew on me. I’m guessing this way is probably easier to notice out of the corner of your eye, rather than having to take your eye off the characters for a quick sec to look at your meter. Or it could simply be that they wanted to make sure they stood out as two separate meters.

 

[KRYS9984]

I have a feeling they probably tested that first, before switching to the current style. Honestly I didn’t like it at first. It just feels like a weird corner frame or something, I dunno. But it grew on me. I’m guessing this way is probably easier to notice out of the corner of your eye, rather than having to take your eye off the characters for a quick sec to look at your meter. Or it could simply be that they wanted to make sure they stood out as two separate meters.

I felt the same way at first glance; it looked like a camera viewfinder that squared off the screen making it less streamline. Either way, developers will go with what they feel best for the overall design and how it applies to the actual in game use.

I just urge everyone to keep an open mind and not jump to conclusions on whether the new meter system is inferior; it's just different much like all the new mechanics that were added to previous games.

 

[Pterodactyl]

If you play a matchup like Donatello vs Starfire you'll know why this is a good idea.

I just want to say I love that this is a completely serious sentence.

Like I know we’re numb to it now but man, that actually happened.

 

[Badboy Takuma]

Stamina in MKX regenerated over time, they have the same idea here.

Zoning looks to considerable part of the matches in MK11 and having a self-regenrating meter will avoid traditional zoning issues like strong Zoners constantly having meter to do whatever while characters who get zoned will struggle in that regard.

It's a bold change and I'm interested in seeing how it plays out.

this!
anyways, lets try it out first.
im not saying that this thread is pointless

 

[kabelfritz]

The only things I would really change about the meter system is the input to meter-burn / amplify attacks to a single button (the standard NRS way)

actually the first time nrs had meterburn moves was in mk vs dc and they were triggered by a button combination just like in mk11. they also required quite strict timing (there were just-frames). i always wondered why they got rid of that in mk9, even though it would have been enough to tone down the strictness. need i say though that anything with timing was impossible in mk vs dc online ? maybe the better netcode ist the reason for the reintroduction of that input mechanic.

 

[Eji1700]

I'm cautiously optimistic In theory it could be interesting. Lots of little ways this could be used tweak character balance by adjusting move regen rates, and that's good.

That said though, For Honor should be a required case study on why you need to be stupid careful with limiting your offensive options. Something like this quickly leads to "well why would I continue pressure?" once you've blown your offensive meter. All things being equal you should just do your combo, burn your bar, and then back off until it comes back.

You can balance for that and give incentives to keep pushing in, but it's an inherently defensive mechanic and it can lead to lame scenarios where neither player wants to approach until they get their meter back, breaking the flow of the game.

Now granted NRS has experience with approaching being an issue (both injustice games) but I'm hoping this doesn't wind up a problem.