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Fatality o

Fatality o

Cigretts PSN
Is everyone playing sareena as the chosen kameo? Ive been playing goro to combo off 223 or F423 and keep her safe but not loving him. Thinking about trying lao to give her more fullscreen options. Thoughts?
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Fatality o said:
Is everyone playing sareena as the chosen kameo? Ive been playing goro to combo off 223 or F423 and keep her safe but not loving him. Thinking about trying lao to give her more fullscreen options. Thoughts?
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If I recall correctly, spin does not connect after 1,2.

Spin also does not connect after max range f+2.

Low hat is arguably the second best move (after Cyrax's helicopter) in the game, but Sareena's daggers synergize better with Ashrah's combos, conversions, and zoning.
 
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SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Moms4lif3 said:
Thanks dude, ill give her a go for sure :)

i feel like she generally does fine against most of the current top tiers, right? I could see johnny being a good mu, raiden seems ok - is baraka maybe a bit harder since he has a pretty good projectile? I cant think of a lot of stuff that would give her trouble here?
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I think she does very well against the Top half of the cast. I think she does exceedingly well against Kenshi and very good against Johnny as hard as that may be to believe, and not sure she really "loses" anything yet. Would be curious to know what the Top guys like Titanium are saying, but I definitely see it.

Felipe_Gewehr said:
So, I've came across some Ashrahs with good W/L ratio on Kombat League and I've found that, while using Baraka, this seems like an easy match up for me. Just neutral duck most of the match and whiff punish, and when knocked down, delay wakeup - most ashrahs would go for the overhead and mistime it and it would whiff, granting me a 45-50% free combo. Block when you knock her down and never get flash parried.

Is this such a bad MU for her? I was thinking of switching to Ashrah in the future
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Agree Baraka is the trickiest of the top tiers for her, but I think it's probably even still. You might have just played some flowchart peeps lol, especially that "F3 oki" or always doing F2 after projectile lol flowchart crap that you can't overuse against good players.

For me the main annoyance is his advancing moves and their speed. His overall toolkit combined with it make it harder for Ashrah to utilize her monster neutral game. The projectile he has is a pure full combo punish at F2 ranges even online so I don't feel he can use it much beyond far distance. And he can't free oki/free corner her like some chars. But he's also still Baraka/Cyrax so it's a fight. The toughest of the top tiers but still probably pretty even. I hope lol.

kabelfritz said:
i dont think ashrah is as strong as people make her. she would be broken if f2 was a mid but luckily it isnt. the main thing you wanna do is just stay fullscreen.
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Imagine making F2 a mid lol so Ashrah vs Ashrah grand finals every month?

Fatality o said:
Is everyone playing sareena as the chosen kameo? Ive been playing goro to combo off 223 or F423 and keep her safe but not loving him. Thinking about trying lao to give her more fullscreen options. Thoughts?
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Sareena is the best compliment for sure. I can't be bothered with Goro taking 8 years to recharge in a game like this. Though I've been dabbling with others and labbing to see, and I'm starting to find some serious stuff lol. I'm actually gonna post it tonight because I wanna gather thoughts if it's worth the tradeoff in specific MUs.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
@Second Saint @M2Dave @all been trying out on the side other kameos to test if anything beats Sareena synergy (no I don't count Cyrax, he isn't a real kameo), and still feel like Sareena is the best, but also feel like maybe Sonya might be a good alternative for MUs you think you'll use Dark Stance more often than others or don't have to rely as much on Sareena's complimentary pieces. Have yall checked her out yet? Just jotting some thoughts below.

--You can get real damage with Sonya from Dark stacks without spending meter that makes it feel even stronger. The stack launchers seem to do from low 40% to near 50% meterless midscreen with half screen carry. Tbh I'm not even sure if I have fully optimized these yet and damage is even higher when talking about the corner, but just for some examples I recently took out into the real world:

*Stacked midscreen- B22 (launched), DF1, Neutral kameo (same time as DF1), F dash, F2, DF3, Neutral kameo, F2, DF3 = 43.9%, maybe can be more.
*Stacked midscreen- F423 (launched), F2 | kameo | DF1 (the are after each other but link), F Dash, F2, DF3, Neutral kameo, F2, DF3 = 48.9%

This has to be some of the best meterless damage in the game that doesn't require resources not even counting the metered damage easily over 500 midscreen or corner meterless.

--Ring charge variable timings adds another layer to her pressure with fireball, F2, dash up buttons, and grab in neutral. Especially after combo enders or tip-ranged fireballs it is safe unless they make a risky hard read and pretty much opens up all of neutral for you if they're respecting you already. Very similar to Laos hat, except with ring being a high unless you charge it long enough you can open them up for trying to neutral duck even more than usual. The plus frames on it are massive too.

I've tried to strategize around using meterless damage after stacks, metered damage Dark stance (switch to it off S21 punish combo etc), and switching back to light on reads. It has been decent so far, but just started trying non-Sareena routes seriously so I'll see as I discover/play more how I feel about it. But my first impression is that she might be underutilized as a kameo.

By comparison, I first tried Scorpion due to the Dark Stance damage potential being the best of the kameos, but other than the increase in damage I'm not seeing much benefit so didn't stick around much longer.
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
@Fatality o

A correction...

1,2, hat spin does combo.

You can do (most single attacks or strings), hat spin, d,f+1, f+2, EN d,f+3, aerial 1,2,2, b,f+2.

b+3, hat spin does not combo. Low hat does not combo either.

Neither does f+2, hat spin at most ranges, as already mentioned.

Obviously, low hat makes Ashrah's mid range and zoning game even better, but you lose some important conversions.

Speaking of conversions, you can do (single attacks or strings), daggers, 2,1, d,f+1, f+2, d,b+2 for solid meter-less damage. I have not seen Ashrah players opt to save meter, which could be useful against teams like Raiden/Jax and Baraka/Cyrax against whom breakers are very important.

SaltShaker said:
(no I don't count Cyrax, he isn't a real kameo)
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LOL.

I am certain that there is some dirt with d,b+2 and helicopter.

I think he may also allow her to combo after back throw.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Oh Cyrax is everyone's best assist, like literally everyone's lol. Likely better than Sareena for Ashrah too I just refuse to play him because it would be like investing in Deadshot for a couple of months before he got nuked.

You can do things as simple as B3, DB2, Chopper and be fully jailed into pressure setups. If do F42 into chopper you can stance switch for free on block and be heavily plus after making Cyrax easily her best character for stance switching. You can do strings into BF2 with Chopper and either be safe or combo them. You can combo off the throw. A couple of the strings jail them so plus that F3/B3 are jailed into, giving a free 50/50 so you can actually visually see how they are blocking and 50/50 them lol. Even the F3 oki that blows up a lot of people not paying attention, Cyrax turns it into a +OB orrr a combo so it's better than Goro's F3 up punch.

Ashrah might be the only top tier that can stay on top without Cyrax, but Cyrax is still king if you count him as a real character.

*** added separately because site is busted for me lol.
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
After watching Foxy use Ashrah/Lao, I think that's the way to go if you want to play while stance switching often. Hat lets you switch in neutral without difficulty and allows you to mix people with the f423 string by making the low hit before or after the overhead, giving you the damaging meterless launch with dark stacks. Also f4~low hat jails, which is pretty good.
 
kabelfritz

kabelfritz

Master
Immortal said:
Ashrah flash parry buff is INSANE. It now can take like 3 hits(armor).

I've been crushing people with it today. She got really buffed with the patch. That's crazy.
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wait, ashrah got buffed? xD

i built some trust in NRS with the launch balance, but they are back in nonsense mode it seems.
 
Immortal

Immortal

Blind justice....
I'm glad i've picked her up in anticipation of Baraka being "deleted from the game" with the patch. It turned up even better than expected.

Flash parry now with her is such a cheeeeeese, you can now blow up almost everything with it. :D

You can flash parry almost anything, strings up close(for example Baraka B3,1 or throws, anything you want lol) and punish for a cool 43%.

She sure looks like new Raiden, just better. LMAO.
 
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SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Immortal said:
I'm glad i've picked her up in anticipation of Baraka being "deleted from the game" with the patch. It turned up even better than expected.

Flash parry now with her is such a cheeeeeese, you can now blow up almost everything with it. :D

You can almost flash parry anything string up close(for example Baraka B3,1 or throws, anything you want lol) and punish for a cool 43%.

She sure looks like new Raiden, just better. LMAO.
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Shhh, we only talk about how broken Johnny is around these parts. :coffee:
 
Immortal

Immortal

Blind justice....
How long it lasts(armor) is a big change thou. Test it out. It's pretty crazy how easy it is to crush people with it now and yes there is nothing in the patch notes about it, thou that's hardly an indicator of anything since patch notes are often incomplete.
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Tony at Home said:
BF2 has always had several hits of armor when enhanced. This isn't a change
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@Immortal is right, the armor on cancels last WAY longer now. Pre-patch I if I tried to do ex bf2bb in light stance through the gap in Baraka's df2 followed by Cyrax, the armor would time out and I'd get hit. Now I can do 21 and still be armored the whole time.

EDIT: Wait, no, if I time it tighter the armor will still run out, but only on the very last hit, and that just stops me from getting a standing punish. I'm still pretty sure it's longer.
 
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Immortal

Immortal

Blind justice....
It's late here so i'm not gonna do it right now but if someone wants to be sure, you can compare old fotage(if you have one) with flash parry vs the new one in slow motion and count frames of armor. I don't think it's necessary coz the difference is quite big and easy to see even without a proper test.
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Immortal said:
It's late here so i'm not gonna do it right now but if someone wants to be sure, you can compare old fotage(if you have one) with flash parry vs the new one in slow motion and count frames of armor. I don't think it's necessary coz the difference is quite big and easy to see even without a proper test.
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Right, so here's my current theory. Ashrah's armor is active for the entire start up when you hold it. That's 43 start up frames. Right now, she's getting that entire 43 frames even when she cancels it. A cancel is 11f start up and 21 recovery, leaving 11f to come out of recovery and do what ever you want.
 
Immortal

Immortal

Blind justice....
Second Saint said:
Right, so here's my current theory. Ashrah's armor is active for the entire start up when you hold it. That's 43 start up frames. Right now, she's getting that entire 43 frames even when she cancels it. A cancel is 11f start up and 21 recovery, leaving 11f to come out of recovery and do what ever you want.
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Seems that way. The only, real question here - is this intentional? Coz it kinda feels borderline broken. You can do so much with it, punish things i don't think were meant to be punished by design. Honestly feels like a bug/human error. I can only imagine what much better players like Sonic or Ninja etc... could do with this IF it stays this way.

Not to mention that, while (almost)everybody else got directly or indirectly nerfed, Ashrah got seriously buffed, seems - again - like a mistake.
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Immortal said:
Seems that way. The only, real question here - is this intentional? Coz it kinda feels borderline broken. You can do so much with it, punish things i don't think were meant to be punished by design. Honestly feels like a bug/human error. I can only imagine what much better players like Sonic or Ninja etc... could do with this IF it stays this way.

Not to mention that, while (almost)everybody else got directly or indirectly nerfed, Ashrah got seriously buffed, seems - again - like a mistake.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have to agree. We are approaching MK X Tremor levels of flash parry, and I feel like they didn't want that.
 
Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Master
There's gotta be a less than 0 chance that lingering armor frames were an intentional change.

At that point calling it a flash parry is underselling it. It's almost like she has something that works dually as a flash parry and a FADC

Definitely going to abuse this for the lulz a bit, but I'm not counting on it sticking around once the Netherrealm flaming eye of Mordor spots it
 
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