Ashrah General Discussion

[Second Saint]

I think an ashrah nerf is inevitable. I am already lapsing into bad habits like armor ghost dashing out of any situation with hardly any risk.

I see her light projectile being made slightly less plus. I see her armor being reduced to taking 1 hit only. I dont see her f3 overhead remaining untouched either. I could also see her damage getting reduced

Mind you this isn't what I want to happen, just what I expect from the grumblings I've heard. And I think she should receive compensatory buffs in exchange, namely things to make dark stance better

Pretty much my stance, too. If Cyrax goes down and we aren't touched, Ashrah could suddenly be undisputed top 1 with a huge target on her back and then get gutted.

And frankly, toning down light stance to make dark better should be done regardless, because I don't think she's being played as intended and it leads to a flat, less interesting playstyle.

I'd like to build my whole gameplan around stance switching and building stacks, but two things stop this from happening, imo. Those two things being the sheer sacrifice in damage required to stance switch twice in a combo while maintaining oki and the short timer on the stacks. We can do the first with certain Kameos, but it usually requires ~110 damage sacrifice, which is usually going to be more than you'd gain if you open them up. Just doesn't work out mathematically. If the timer were longer, none of that matters. Just go for full damage, go back to neutral, wait for stance to run out or a good opportunity to switch back, and anything you get is a decent bonus.

 

[SaltShaker]

Pretty much my stance, too. If Cyrax goes down and we aren't touched, Ashrah could suddenly be undisputed top 1 with a huge target on her back and then get gutted.

And frankly, toning down light stance to make dark better should be done regardless, because I don't think she's being played as intended and it leads to a flat, less interesting playstyle.

I'd like to build my whole gameplan around stance switching and building stacks, but two things stop this from happening, imo. Those two things being the sheer sacrifice in damage required to stance switch twice in a combo while maintaining oki and the short timer on the stacks. We can do the first with certain Kameos, but it usually requires ~110 damage sacrifice, which is usually going to be more than you'd gain if you open them up. Just doesn't work out mathematically. If the timer were longer, none of that matters. Just go for full damage, go back to neutral, wait for stance to run out or a good opportunity to switch back, and anything you get is a decent bonus.

This is perfectly said imo. That's the main issue with swapping to Dark. The stacks don't last long enough, and doing DB2 to put three stacks on is never worth the addition for losing immediate damage, and your usual enders aren't worth it. When you're in Light, the loss of combo damage AND oki to safely switch to Dark and back to Light is not worth it. So your best bet is to stay in Light except for some rare circumstance of using Dark

Well, I guess we really ARE playing Ashrah then huh? Well played NRS, well played.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

I see her armor being reduced to taking 1 hit only.

I wouldn't worry about this happening because that attack requires multi hit armor to function properly as an armored move which is why she has it.

 

[SaltShaker]

How do y'all best deal with low profiling? Like just lost to a Raiden that legit just went under everything with the double low kick for half the match and it seemed like an unblockable lol. Much help needed.

 

[kabelfritz]

How do y'all best deal with low profiling? Like just lost to a Raiden that legit just went under everything with the double low kick for half the match and it seemed like an unblockable lol. Much help needed.

raidens biggest issue is closing in on an opponent. his highs are short and his mids super-slow. you could use f4, f3 and raw df1 in neutral.

 

[SaltShaker]

raidens biggest issue is closing in on an opponent. his highs are short and his mids super-slow. you could use f4, f3 and raw df1 in neutral.

Yea you're right. I just tested it out and it's actually really easy to deal with. I was doing the same thing but kept getting hit. -6 on block and then getting my F4 crushed by a repeat. Exhibit A why I hate the netcode lol.

 

[kabelfritz]

Exhibit A why I hate the netcode lol.

dont know how often i got combo'd from d1 today or if theres any consistency in how throws beat pokes.

 

[Immortal]

I refuse to cancel pokes into special online..... and i die for not doing this scrubby ass not a real thing all the time, coz everybody else are doing it all the time. Oh well, it is what it is.

 

[kabelfritz]

I refuse to cancel pokes into special online..... and i die for not doing this scrubby ass not a real thing all the time, coz everybody else are doing it all the time. Oh well, it is what it is.

i get kombo'd by d1 into standing one though. doesnt matter if im already holding block

 

[SaltShaker]

Or my personal favorite, the 50/50 that goes from fuzzy to unblockable when playing online. Rain's OH felt like it was 13F at times as I'm literally coming from crouch holding the block button as I get hit.

 

[Zimbobweigh]

I refuse to cancel pokes into special online..... and i die for not doing this scrubby ass not a real thing all the time, coz everybody else are doing it all the time. Oh well, it is what it is.

Suit yourself. I chipout rounds with d1 into db2 all day

 

[Immortal]

Buddy, i wrote ALL the time, not only to close the rounds, that would be fine but people are just canceling EVERY poke into special(into kameo if needed). Obviously it's not real and would get you rekt offline. It's a really bad habit to pick up, which is why im avoiding it. And im not even complaining, it is what it is.

 

[M2Dave]

This is perfectly said imo. That's the main issue with swapping to Dark. The stacks don't last long enough, and doing DB2 to put three stacks on is never worth the addition for losing immediate damage, and your usual enders aren't worth it. When you're in Light, the loss of combo damage AND oki to safely switch to Dark and back to Light is not worth it. So your best bet is to stay in Light except for some rare circumstance of using Dark.

I like dark stance for zoning wars, especially to close out rounds when you have a life lead, because of the low, full-screen projectile. If the projectile hits, you can also hold teleport in order to close the gap and cover lots of distance.

Speaking of the teleport, the plus frames on some of the strings are underappreciated and underutilized. Too bad that f+4,2 is not plus, but I suppose plus frames on such a fast mid string would be too strong.

Is dark stance EN teleport a free escape as a wake up since there is no whiff animation?

By the way, you probably already know, but you can still convert while in dark stance after 2,1. Switch to light stance and immediately f+2, EN d,b+3. The timing is little tight, though.

I really wanted to use Rain and zone, but that dream is dead. LOL. Ashrah is strong and fun to use, though. I am getting some Poison (Street Fighter 5) vibes using her due to the control at mid range. She is also not dependent on Cyrax as half the roster seems to be nowadays. Sareena is a requirement as a kameo, right?

 

[SaltShaker]

I like dark stance for zoning wars, especially to close out rounds when you have a life lead, because of the low, full-screen projectile. If the projectile hits, you can also hold teleport in order to close the gap and cover lots of distance.

Speaking of the teleport, the plus frames on some of the strings are underappreciated and underutilized. Too bad that f+4,2 is not plus, but I suppose plus frames on such a fast mid string would be too strong.

Is dark stance EN teleport a free escape as a wake up since there is no whiff animation?

By the way, you probably already know, but you can still convert while in dark stance after 2,1. Switch to light stance and immediately f+2, EN d,b+3. The timing is little tight, though.

I really wanted to use Rain and zone, but that dream is dead. LOL. Ashrah is strong and fun to use, though. I am getting some Poison (Street Fighter 5) vibes using her due to the control at mid range. She is also not dependent on Cyrax as half the roster seems to be nowadays. Sareena is a requirement as a kameo, right?

Yea agreed for sure it's solid there. It's her main full-screen presence option. Especially against some of the Baraka/Kenshi types of matches it has more utility. Using the plus frames are great too because you're pretty much forcing them into "your" game often. Dark Stance EX Teleport is like the best kept secret of the game lol. If they make switching between the two easier and nerf the "top 4" I'm pretty convinced she'll be Top 2 at worst.

I've also just started messing around with Scorpion in Dark Stance to see if he's worth the Kameo for matches you plan on using Dark Stance more. Mainly because of his combo potential/routes/damage in Dark Stance vastly exceed Sareena and he can combo off the grab fairly easy. Feel like in a couple of MUs it might excel but need to test/play more first to be sure. But he feels like the best alternative to Sareena usage at the moment. Sareena is still #1 I think though, I think Titanium and Hayatei said similar. Sareena compliments her in just too many areas, maybe even intentionally designed being that they are "sisters" or whatnot.

Soooo with that combo switch, I die online trying to squeeze in F2 there haha so I do F42 instead. I do ---21, switch, F42, EX Shoryuken, air 122, air slash---. It's super slightly less damage, like 34.9% vs 34.6% or something like that and more with stacks so I take the easier execution there.

Ashrah almost feels like the only high tier character not dependent on Cyrax Lol! Definitely is similar to a Poison type for sure. The more I play her the more I feel she outright dominates the neutral game and has good damage off of everything. I've flipped the zoning into "mid range zoning" haha. I think an argument can be made that no character has better control than her.

Also, I've jumped ship officially to Ashrah now. Sindel was fun while it lasted, but Ashrah is just too strong a character and too fitting a playstyle to pass up.

 

[Fatality o]

What are ashrahs FB combos midscreen off ex df3?

 

[Moms4lif3]

Yea agreed for sure it's solid there. It's her main full-screen presence option. Especially against some of the Baraka/Kenshi types of matches it has more utility. Using the plus frames are great too because you're pretty much forcing them into "your" game often. Dark Stance EX Teleport is like the best kept secret of the game lol. If they make switching between the two easier and nerf the "top 4" I'm pretty convinced she'll be Top 2 at worst.

I've also just started messing around with Scorpion in Dark Stance to see if he's worth the Kameo for matches you plan on using Dark Stance more. Mainly because of his combo potential/routes/damage in Dark Stance vastly exceed Sareena and he can combo off the grab fairly easy. Feel like in a couple of MUs it might excel but need to test/play more first to be sure. But he feels like the best alternative to Sareena usage at the moment. Sareena is still #1 I think though, I think Titanium and Hayatei said similar. Sareena compliments her in just too many areas, maybe even intentionally designed being that they are "sisters" or whatnot.

Soooo with that combo switch, I die online trying to squeeze in F2 there haha so I do F42 instead. I do ---21, switch, F42, EX Shoryuken, air 122, air slash---. It's super slightly less damage, like 34.9% vs 34.6% or something like that and more with stacks so I take the easier execution there.

Ashrah almost feels like the only high tier character not dependent on Cyrax Lol! Definitely is similar to a Poison type for sure. The more I play her the more I feel she outright dominates the neutral game and has good damage off of everything. I've flipped the zoning into "mid range zoning" haha. I think an argument can be made that no character has better control than her.

Also, I've jumped ship officially to Ashrah now. Sindel was fun while it lasted, but Ashrah is just too strong a character and too fitting a playstyle to pass up.

Another Sindel main gone ;(
hello darkness my old friend

I am strongly considering Ashrah as secondary, she seems good, fun to play and actually has some depth to her - unlike basically every other top tier

when the game came out I thought Johnny looked sick and so fun, now that ive played against him loads he seems sooo boring, almost as bad ad Baraka :/ I cant wait for Cyrax to be nerfed, maybe Baraka and Johnny mains will actually try to find cool stuff then sigh

 

[M2Dave]

What are ashrahs FB combos midscreen off ex df3?

Good question.

Can you even follow up with FB after long combos after EN d,f+3? @SaltShaker

I am not sure if ideal, but you can do something like string, Sareena's double daggers, 2,1, d,f+1, f+2, FB, which will do around 50%.

 

[SaltShaker]

What are ashrahs FB combos midscreen off ex df3?

Good question.

Can you even follow up with FB after long combos after EN d,f+3? @SaltShaker

I am not sure if ideal, but you can do something like string, Sareena's double daggers, 2,1, d,f+1, f+2, FB, which will do around 50%.

Yea definitely good question because Ashrah is a little bit different with hers. Longer combos will "drop" them too fast with Sareena, but good cases are there for shorter combos if you're going for FB.

For example, I'll use F42 since it's a common launcher. Most players use the combo Dave posted into Fatal Blow, and with F42 it's 49%. But if you don't use the Sareena route or are low/out on Sareena and want to save, or stacked with meter, it's better to go the EX route and you can also do F42, EX DF3, JP1, F2, FB, which funny enough does like 0.something % more damage than using Sareena. It also makes the opponent build less meter if you think they are getting "close" to the breaker.

I most often use the non-Sareena combo on F2 whiff punish (same combo) when I know it's a clean punish and they'll get less meter, and I get like a tiny bit more damage. If my Sareena is full I use the Sareena route Dave posted above. So I rotate these.

if you want to double down on damage with Sareena and EX you can do F2 (any starter), Sareena call, F2, EX DF3, JP1, F2, FB for 52%.

#BuffAshrah

 

[SaltShaker]

Another Sindel main gone ;(
hello darkness my old friend

I am strongly considering Ashrah as secondary, she seems good, fun to play and actually has some depth to her - unlike basically every other top tier

when the game came out I thought Johnny looked sick and so fun, now that ive played against him loads he seems sooo boring, almost as bad ad Baraka :/ I cant wait for Cyrax to be nerfed, maybe Baraka and Johnny mains will actually try to find cool stuff then sigh

Hahaha yea Sindel was/is still fun, and I'll still play her off and on, but Ashrah is where the real toolkit is at. Anything you want to do in a MU, she can either do it, or do it better. And she's very rewarding to play.

Johnny is still fun I think but you most likely have been worn out by fighting so many of them LOL. Some of those MUs will be changed a lot when it isn't Mortal Cyrax 1 so that would probably be a good time to try him out again. Fortunately if you're checking out Ashrah you can raise some hell against Johnny in the MU.

 

[Moms4lif3]

Hahaha yea Sindel was/is still fun, and I'll still play her off and on, but Ashrah is where the real toolkit is at. Anything you want to do in a MU, she can either do it, or do it better. And she's very rewarding to play.

Johnny is still fun I think but you most likely have been worn out by fighting so many of them LOL. Some of those MUs will be changed a lot when it isn't Mortal Cyrax 1 so that would probably be a good time to try him out again. Fortunately if you're checking out Ashrah you can raise some hell against Johnny in the MU.

Thanks dude, ill give her a go for sure

i feel like she generally does fine against most of the current top tiers, right? I could see johnny being a good mu, raiden seems ok - is baraka maybe a bit harder since he has a pretty good projectile? I cant think of a lot of stuff that would give her trouble here?

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

So, I've came across some Ashrahs with good W/L ratio on Kombat League and I've found that, while using Baraka, this seems like an easy match up for me. Just neutral duck most of the match and whiff punish, and when knocked down, delay wakeup - most ashrahs would go for the overhead and mistime it and it would whiff, granting me a 45-50% free combo. Block when you knock her down and never get flash parried.

Is this such a bad MU for her? I was thinking of switching to Ashrah in the future

 

[xenogorgeous]

yeah, Ashrah is amazing in this game , she is the "Poke Queen" regarding gameplay wise, hehe

 

[kabelfritz]

So, I've came across some Ashrahs with good W/L ratio on Kombat League and I've found that, while using Baraka, this seems like an easy match up for me. Just neutral duck most of the match and whiff punish, and when knocked down, delay wakeup - most ashrahs would go for the overhead and mistime it and it would whiff, granting me a 45-50% free combo. Block when you knock her down and never get flash parried.

Is this such a bad MU for her? I was thinking of switching to Ashrah in the future

i dont think ashrah is as strong as people make her. she would be broken if f2 was a mid but luckily it isnt. the main thing you wanna do is just stay fullscreen.

 

[Immortal]

Ashrah is very strong, you just have to be extremely good at neutral. If you're not then she falls of pretty quickly. You can see people like Dragon or Tigerzz doing work with her. Also KL and W/L in it means nothing.

 

[M2Dave]

Is this such a bad MU for her? I was thinking of switching to Ashrah in the future.

I definitely need to play the match up some more, but Baraka's damage output, advancing armor against Ashrah's projectiles, and launching back throw (with Cyrax as the kameo, of course) are concerning. However, Ashrah's own damage output is high as well. She also does not have to worry about Baraka's b+3 eating armor on wake up, which is a big deal. Baraka's projectile is an easy whiff punish with f+2 if you are in range and neutral crouch.

Just some initial observations.