Strategy Ares' reset is NOT guaranteed: Info on how to beat it inside!

[Juggs]

Why is it that no one seems to be able to make informative threads discussing relevant Injustice tech/match-ups without being condescending and burying everyone for their lack of knowledge?

It's not simply lack of knowledge on why I'm irritated. I don't condemn people for being ignorant, I condemn people for making statements that are not true and representing them as facts. Such as Ares' reset is an unavoidable guaranteed reset. If someone says "Ares's reset seems broken, is there a way to beat it?", I would answer them with zero problems. But that's not the messages I get, or the statements that are made. In fact, not one person has asked me if there was a way to beat the reset, they just assume there isn't and then call it broken. I would even excuse this behavior in a game like MK9, since the training mode isn't adequate enough, but this isn't MK9, Injustice has a great training mode where you can definitely test how to beat/avoid the reset. And if it was a small number of people saying this, again I wouldn't be so aggravated, but so many people have said this and it has gotten to me. Especially considering b23, the best way to set-up the reset, is being nerfed presumably because of all the complaints. Nerfing b23 BEFORE Superman's f23 seems absolutely ridiculous to me, so add that all up and I hope most can understand why I would seem condescending.

 

[Briggs8417]

If this setup is so bad why are you all getting pissed about making it a real 50\50? Sounds like a buff to me.

 

[Juggs]

If this setup is so bad why are you all getting pissed about making it a real 50\50? Sounds like a buff to me.

What are you talking about? No one ever said the setup was bad, but the setup is clearly not broken or guaranteed. It IS a real 50/50, every character has at least one wake-up attack that has enough invincibility to beat it, forcing Ares to delay the reset, and when he delays it, that means the opponent can back dash to avoid it. And other characters, such as Doomsday, can just out right beat the reset, so you can't even do it unless you get real creative/gimmicky.

Something doesn't have to be guaranteed and broken to be good.

And btw, I'm pissed Ares has already been targeted to be nerfed when:
1.) b23 doesn't deserve to be nerfed. Read the OP and you will agree to this.
2.) There's so many things that should have already been targeted to be nerfed before b23 or even Ares was mentioned at all. Why has b23 already been targeted when we have Superman's f23 which undeniable much better? I'm not saying these things should be nerfed, but if you're going to nerf Ares' b23, then might as well nerf it all.

 

[fr stack]

practice dem wake-ups lads

 

[Jeffreys]

Who puts Ares on this pedestal with resets when Grundy is the best at doing resets in this game. Grundy has death combo resets for half the amount of work. Grundy can also gain buffs off his resets, such x10 reduction in chip which means it's practically game over if he touches you. You're then forced to go to him (that's if you even live after the resets), so good luck.

Oh, and have fun trying to do some wake-ups against Grundy when he has walking corpse that chews through it with armor and still resets you. All of this Ares reset hype is so blown out of proportion. It's like MK9 players complaining about Jax reset while Cyrax goes under the radar with his.

Gosh, I can't wait until some good Grundy players come out of the wood work and reset the hell out of some of you with his grabs. Where will your God of War be then? Oh, that's right. Nerfed to irrelevant and "who cares" tier. I pray he gets some buffs after they take it away.

Don't worry REO even though what you say may be true, He already loses 8-2 to Superman who can outzone him and actually frame traps Grundy up close, and use trait for walking corpse. With all of you playing superman Grundy isn't going up the tier list anytime soon.

 

[Briggs8417]

What are you talking about? No one ever said the setup was bad, but the setup is clearly not broken or guaranteed. It IS a real 50/50, every character has at least one wake-up attack that has enough invincibility to beat it, forcing Ares to delay the reset, and when he delays it, that means the opponent can back dash to avoid it. And other characters, such as Doomsday, can just out right beat the reset, so you can't even do it unless you get real creative/gimmicky.

Something doesn't have to be guaranteed and broken to be good.

That was exaggeration on my part I'm just saying you all are mad about this seriously make b23 techable just gives the opponent that much more to think about on their wake up. It gives you more options and makes them have to stress a little bit more about deciding what they want to do. I've been saying I think that it's more of a positive than a negative for a while.

 

[4x4lo8o]

Good shit explaining and compiling all this, Juggs. After attending Vindication over the weekend and seeing no one I played, not even a few really good players who placed significantly higher than I did, demonstrate any real ability to get out of my resets I was considering making a video explaining. As an Ares player, it's actually kind of annoying having people be unable to get out because I know at a high level it shouldn't be working so easily and in the long run I'm probably hurting my game by relying on the resets, but at the same time it's difficult to just stop using something that's working. It's also frustrating knowing that I have set ups and things for when people do get out of my resets, but I don't get much chance to test them

Can I suggest that you change the thread title to 'How to escape Ares' resets' or something similar? I think it would get more visibility that way. We've had a few sort of whiny 'don't remove Ares reset, he needs it' kinds of threads already and a title that's slightly more indicative of the useful information inside might be more likely to draw in the people who need to see it.

 

[Juggs]

4x4lo8o Good idea, altered the thread title.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Great work Juggs
But this reset is a crap shoot getting out if w sinestro

I picked up a whole new character just because if it

The fuck if I'm going to a major w sinestro against ares thinking "just time my extremely unreliable arachnid perfectly"

But the list and details are great

 

[Hellbringer]

I just found out that forward dash works as good maybe even better then backdash if ares delays his reset.

Edit: apparently not for all characters, well not for sinestro hes the first i tested but for ares, forwarddashing works too

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

It's not simply lack of knowledge on why I'm irritated. I don't condemn people for being ignorant, I condemn people for making statements that are not true and representing them as facts. Such as Ares' reset is an unavoidable guaranteed reset. If someone says "Ares's reset seems broken, is there a way to beat it?", I would answer them with zero problems. But that's not the messages I get, or the statements that are made. In fact, not one person has asked me if there was a way to beat the reset, they just assume there isn't and then call it broken. I would even excuse this behavior in a game like MK9, since the training mode isn't adequate enough, but this isn't MK9, Injustice has a great training mode where you can definitely test how to beat/avoid the reset. And if it was a small number of people saying this, again I wouldn't be so aggravated, but so many people have said this and it has gotten to me. Especially considering b23, the best way to set-up the reset, is being nerfed presumably because of all the complaints. Nerfing b23 BEFORE Superman's f23 seems absolutely ridiculous to me, so add that all up and I hope most can understand why I would seem condescending.

Whether the reset is guaranteed or not, it is horseshit against Sinestro. The most you have to fear is getting hit by the arachnid for what? 10%? If I played Ares, that certainly wouldn't make me think twice about using it. The reward for doing it is huge and the risk is minimal.

 

[RiBBz22]

If I do the reset setup in training mode on the record function against Killer Frost and try to get out with slide...it is bad. If you setup the reset properly it is very very very hard to get out of it. I would say doing MB Godsmack off of a b23 from a juggle off of a b3 j2 it is probably a just frame to 2 frame window to get out with a wake-up.

Even with that being as cheap as it is, I don't think it should be nerfed.

 

[MashPotatoTower]

he needs it.

 

[Juggs]

If I do the reset setup in training mode on the record function against Killer Frost and try to get out with slide...it is bad. If you setup the reset properly it is very very very hard to get out of it. I would say doing MB Godsmack off of a b23 from a juggle off of a b3 j2 it is probably a just frame to 2 frame window to get out with a wake-up.

Even with that being as cheap as it is, I don't think it should be nerfed.

Set Killer frost to wake-up attacks on and black ice (her slide), you're testing it backwards. You have to time the wake-up move for it to actually be a wake-up move with invincibility. It takes practice.

 

[MashPotatoTower]

" I can't its hard, mommy! " - this thread

 

[haketh]

Whether the reset is guaranteed or not, it is horseshit against Sinestro. The most you have to fear is getting hit by the arachnid for what? 10%? If I played Ares, that certainly wouldn't make me think twice about using it. The reward for doing it is huge and the risk is minimal.

Have a counter pick ready or get good at reading the situation.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Have a counter pick ready or get good at reading the situation.

Neither of those address the problem: it shouldn't be possible to get nearly free damage off of a character with bad wakeups. Take it out.

 

[haketh]

Neither of those address the problem: it shouldn't be possible to get nearly free damage off of a character with bad wakeups. Take it out.

It's not even close to free damage, you still have two options to deal with it and avoid it. And one character has it this bad, it sucks *Especially because I also play him* but thats how fighting games go. Ares already has problems and taking away one of the really strong tools he has because a small handful of characters have a hard time *Note, not can't* deal with it is mad bitchmade. Do you fuck up Juri's Fujihan's because T. Hawk can't deal with them? Or Blanka's Hori Balls and 3/4ths of his normals because they wreck T. Hawk? Do you murder Hakan because he mauls Sim? Do you fuck up Mu's Steins because Tager can't get in without putting himeself at a big risk?

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

It's not even close to free damage, you still have two options to deal with it and avoid it. And one character has it this bad, it sucks *Especially because I also play him* but thats how fighting games go. Ares already has problems and taking away one of the really strong tools he has because a small handful of characters have a hard time *Note, not can't* deal with it is mad bitchmade. Do you fuck up Juri's Fujihan's because T. Hawk can't deal with them? Or Blanka's Hori Balls and 3/4ths of his normals because they wreck T. Hawk? Do you murder Hakan because he mauls Sim? Do you fuck up Mu's Steins because Tager can't get in without putting himeself at a big risk?

lol well I guess I will stop arguing since it is being toned down anyways

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Neither of those address the problem: it shouldn't be possible to get nearly free damage off of a character with bad wakeups. Take it out.

LOL

just wait till you play a solid Grundy

I don't use his juggle reset because he gets damage off of Sinestro's POS wakeups. He isn't the only one too.

 

[RiBBz22]

Set Killer frost to wake-up attacks on and black ice (her slide), you're testing it backwards. You have to time the wake-up move for it to actually be a wake-up move with invincibility. It takes practice.

I am not testing it backwards. I did exactly what I intended. If the Ares player sets it up properly, there is probably a frame or 2 to get out with a wakeup with invincibility. If you just b23 on the ground into a ground pound I can wake-up 100% of the time. If the b23 comes off a juggle it eats up a huge portion of the wakeup window where I can only get out by 1) mashing super or 2) a just frame wake-up. It is escapable both ways nevertheless. Like I said I definitely not saying to nerf it.

 

[4x4lo8o]

Neither of those address the problem: it shouldn't be possible to get nearly free damage off of a character with bad wakeups. Take it out.

I'm all for making Ares b23 untechable(I don't like that you're forced to wake up), but I don't think this is a good argument. Characters with bad wake ups are fucked against more characters than Ares(and Ares is one of those characters with pretty awful wake up options). Characters like Bane and Grundy and Shazam have ridiculous shit similar to Ares that essentially forces you to wake up once they knock you over and most of them get way better damage than Ares to boot.
Ares gets like 65% off a reset using 1 bar of meter and trait - there are characters that get damage similar to that without resets.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

I'm all for making Ares b23 untechable, but I don't think this a good argument. Characters with bad wake ups are fucked against more characters than Ares(and Ares is one of those characters with pretty awful wake up options). Characters like Bane and Grundy and Shazam have ridiculous shit similar to Ares once they knock you over and most of them get way better damage than Ares. Ares gets like 65% off a reset using 1 bar of meter and trait - there are characters that get damage similar to that without resets.

Right... but that doesn't make this okay.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

I sure as hell hope we Ares players get compensated well enough as he's got other issues than the reset going "away."

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Right... but that doesn't make this okay.

Just about everyone gets free damage off of 1 hit wakeups witha bar of meter

I don't understand