General/Other - Ninjitsu Anyone else feels that Ninjutsu is missing something?

[Slips]

Only thing Scorpion needs, and this goes for both Hellfire and Ninjitsu imo, is his f2 needs to be safe and his b32f2 needs to be safe (and non-interruptable with armor too).

Other than that, he's got everything you could ask for accept good armor, which is the price he pays for having one of the best teleports in the game and standing resets. Which I can accept personally.

 

[BarterRaccoon]

As a ninjutsu main, I feel like he's in good shape the way he is.

 

[Matix218]

My biggest problem with this variation is that it just feels boring because of the lack of special moves.I'll not comment on its balance since i haven't played it since the last patch though.

I Dont miss the special moves when I gain that f2. I think he is very fun to play

 

[GamerBlake90]

Only thing Scorpion needs, and this goes for both Hellfire and Ninjitsu imo, is his f2 needs to be safe and his b32f2 needs to be safe (and non-interruptable with armor too).

Other than that, he's got everything you could ask for accept good armor, which is the price he pays for having one of the best teleports in the game and standing resets. Which I can accept personally.

I'm confused. Don't we already have the ability to make Ninjutsu's F2 safe by spacing it out? Every time I forced them to block both hits at max range, they could not punish me.

Same with B3 2 F2 - it's -12 on block, but the pushback and blockstun make it difficult as Hell to punish. I didn't know it could be armored, though...need to check into that, because if it's true, everyone is letting me get away with abusing it.

I can't comment on Inferno/Hellfire's options since I play neither of those variations.

EDIT: Just tested with Kung Lao set to reversal EX Spin and my B3 2 F2 went unpunished. Perhaps I misread your post?

 

[Sage Leviathan]

I honestly feel that the second hit of F2 could be an overhead or he gains the hell fire move from Hellfire variation.

If the second hit is an overhead, it is reactable, but can still catch people out. If he gains hellfire, you can bait out a jump and punish with B2, but still get punished hard if they score the jump in or succumb to pressure because your armour options aren't brilliant.

I didn't even read the post. Let me guess, he is missing a quick Overhead?

Wrong guess, but feel free to keep assuming without reading.

Except that @Daemantalo was right. Get rekt.

 

[Slips]

I'm confused. Don't we already have the ability to make Ninjutsu's F2 safe by spacing it out? Every time I forced them to block both hits at max range, they could not punish me.

Same with B3 2 F2 - it's -12 on block, but the pushback and blockstun make it difficult as Hell to punish. I didn't know it could be armored, though...need to check into that, because if it's true, everyone is letting me get away with abusing it.

I can't comment on Inferno/Hellfire's options since I play neither of those variations.

EDIT: Just tested with Kung Lao set to reversal EX Spin and my B3 2 F2 went unpunished. Perhaps I misread your post?

I think f2 in Ninj needs to be unpunishable even at point blank. Ninj relies heavily on throws and his best tool to blow up throw break attempts and duckers is f2. Problem is half the cast can punish it up close. Most just don't know the matchup yet.

b32f2 is just a funny string. Some characters can punish it hard on block like Raiden, Cassie, Jax and I think Tremor. KL can't punish raw but he can interrupt with EX Spin after the the 2 in b32 which is also free on block so that string is just out against a good KL that knows the mu.

 

[Daemantalo]

Except that @Daemantalo was right. Get rekt.

Oi, I just read the post. I was half right lol. Most of these threads are the same. People say, "You know what Cybernetic Kano is missing? An Overhead." You know what Johnny Cage is missing? A low starter. Topics like these are really predictable man. Everyone wants a damned 50/50.

 

[mkl]

Ninjutsu already has above average damage (especially meterless). His sword normals are incredible at whiff punishing and occupying space. b2 is also an incredible and underrated anti-air that leads to great damage. He's the honest no bullshit version of Scorpion that shines in the hands of a great player, but doesn't have the crutches and gimmicks that will get you easy wins like Hellfire/Inferno. Personally I think Ninjutsu is possibly his best variation in a vacuum. It's just that in this game people think they need to go in and go ham 100% of the time, preferably with 50/50s.

 

[GamerBlake90]

I think f2 in Ninj needs to be unpunishable even at point blank. Ninj relies heavily on throws and his best tool to blow up throw break attempts and duckers is f2. Problem is half the cast can punish it up close. Most just don't know the matchup yet.

b32f2 is just a funny string. Some characters can punish it hard on block like Raiden, Cassie, Jax and I think Tremor. KL can't punish raw but he can interrupt with EX Spin after the the 2 in b32 which is also free on block so that string is just out against a good KL that knows the mu.

I'm trying to replicate the interruption with EX Spin...all attempts were unsuccessful.

No surprise about which characters can punish on block.

 

[Slips]

I'm trying to replicate the interruption with EX Spin...all attempts were unsuccessful.

No surprise about which characters can punish on block.

Are you stand blocking the 2 of b32 and then doing reverse EX spin? I don't think it punishes if you duck block it. Maybe it has changed?

 

[GamerBlake90]

Are you stand blocking the 2 of b32 and then doing reverse EX spin? I don't think it punishes if you duck block it. Maybe it has changed?

Yes, I am doing exactly that. No punish.

I believe the data you're familiar with has changed, because if I remember right, back when frame data on moves changed depending on whether you blocked them standing or crouching Paulo stated that the next patch (which would land on September 1st) would address that. That may play a part in why this punish no longer works.

If this means anything, I tested this on the Xbox One version.

 

[Phosferrax]

Are you stand blocking the 2 of b32 and then doing reverse EX spin? I don't think it punishes if you duck block it. Maybe it has changed?

It can no longer armoured through, iirc.

 

[Slips]

Yes, I am doing exactly that. No punish.

I believe the data you're familiar with has changed, because if I remember right, back when frame data on moves changed depending on whether you blocked them standing or crouching Paulo stated that the next patch (which would land on September 1st) would address that. That may play a part in why this punish no longer works.

If this means anything, I tested this on the Xbox One version.

Ok that's awesome then. Ninj is probably the go-to for KL in that case. I still wish that string was safe universally and his f2 safe. But oh well.

 

[GamerBlake90]

Ok that's awesome then. Ninj is probably the go-to for KL in that case. I still wish that string was safe universally and his f2 safe. But oh well.

It's the go-to for Tempest Kung Lao, sure...definitely not Buzzsaw because Lao's EX Spin will punish the blockstring since it moves forward in that variation.

 

[Slips]

It's the go-to for Tempest Kung Lao, sure...definitely not Buzzsaw because Lao's EX Spin will punish the blockstring since it moves forward in that variation.

Oh, maybe that was the spin I remember punishing it. I knew he could punish it somehow. Hellfire seems like it'd be ok against Buzzsaw KL sure.

 

[GamerBlake90]

Oh, maybe that was the spin I remember punishing it. I knew he could punish it somehow. Hellfire seems like it'd be ok against Buzzsaw KL sure.

Yeah, but as far as interrupting mid-string goes, that doesn't work. Only as a block punish. That is what I wanted to clear up.

 

[jokey77]

Only thing Scorpion needs, and this goes for both Hellfire and Ninjitsu imo, is his f2 needs to be safe and his b32f2 needs to be safe (and non-interruptable with armor too).

Other than that, he's got everything you could ask for accept good armor, which is the price he pays for having one of the best teleports in the game and standing resets. Which I can accept personally.

You can cancel f4 into teleport and hitconfirm the teleport-cancel (if blocked). I think even then it is safe, because the cancel advantage on f4 is pretty good. not 100% sure though.

 

[Slips]

You can cancel f4 into teleport and hitconfirm the teleport-cancel (if blocked). I think even then it is safe, because the cancel advantage on f4 is pretty good. not 100% sure though.

This is true but it's too slow to use in most scenarios.

 

[mkl]

A lot of people can react to f4 offline. But that teleport cancel to make the special cancel safe, I like that a lot.

 

[IrishMantis]

Would it be too much if they only made Scirps cancels use half of stamina?

So he can use it more for mind games rather than try once and wait to recover?

 

[GAV]

Can we make his combos a little easier? His B2X4 into D2 for 40% is really putting a strain on my right thumb.

 

[ZeroYiggs]

Changes I'd like to see;

-b+2, f+2 to less negative on block: Sure, they're great tools however b+2 is hella negative on block and can be punished at most ranges, when it's not punished you're set back to the neutral game where the opponent can run up and initiate their offense, same goes for f+2. For a character that fundamentally relies on these two attacks it's a shame to see that it's a big risk in utilising them.

-b+3,2 to be special cancellable/pop up for a combo

-f+4 faster, at the moment it can be poked out of, reactable, f+4 ex spear is not even a true blockstring etc etc

-EX Teleport to have armor, not just on wakeup. Scorpion has no decent wakeup options and no armored launchers, Ex/Teleport is already full combo punishable on block anyways.

-Better walkspeed/backdash: I've been reading that his backdash is great however it gets stuffed by literally everything.

-f+2 to be overhead on the second hit: I was tempting to say make f+2 an overhead for both hits but that's pushing it. <--- You can ignore this change

 

[STRYKIE]

EDIT: Just tested with Kung Lao set to reversal EX Spin and my B3 2 F2 went unpunished. Perhaps I misread your post?

I'm trying to replicate the interruption with EX Spin...all attempts were unsuccessful.

No surprise about which characters can punish on block.

It can no longer armoured through, iirc.

The regular non-Ninjutsu version of B32F2 can still be interrupted by some characters if they crouch block and Kung Lao is one of them. Which makes me think the gap isn't even intentional.

Honestly, they could kill soooooo many problems with that string in one shot just by making B32 by itself special cancellable.

accept good armor, which is the price he pays for having one of the best teleports in the game and standing resets. Which I can accept personally.

I don't buy this being the reason. I'd prefer to steer clear of tinfoil hat theories but I don't think there's any reason for Scorpion's lack of armored starters in the neutral other than a tester panicking prematurely. Especially given that EX Tele was armored at all times all the way up until the day 1 patch.

I mean, I don't think anything about Jacqui's toolset correlates to her bad armor variation wide.

Hell, in my "issues to be amended" thread, M2Dave said he would prefer Flame Aura be armored over Low Minion just because it's not a full screen move, despite Flame Aura being monumentally superior at everything else lol.

All I ask for is the Warlock Quan treatment, one armored starter in one variation, and perhaps a less impressive armored safe option, and I'll call it a deal.

 

[GamerBlake90]

The regular non-Ninjutsu version of B32F2 can still be interrupted by some characters if they crouch block and Kung Lao is one of them.

Not true. I tested with the B32F2 string in both the Hellfire and Ninjutsu variations - no bueno for Kung Lao.

 

[STRYKIE]

Not true. I tested with the B32F2 string in both the Hellfire and Ninjutsu variations - no bueno for Kung Lao.

Pick Hellfire Scorpion.

Pick Tempest Kung Lao as the training dummy

Go into AI options and set block mode to "stance", and movement mode to "duck", then set reversal attack to "Cyclone".

NOW do B32F2. You'll see what I mean. Kung Lao is indeed muy buenos.