Guide All-Star Superman Guide

[Dizzy]

DeathAndHealing Raynex

From what i've seen in training, superman doesn't have any fully invincible wakeups. I think rising grab is close to being fully invincible though, only seemed like a few frames missing.

I could be wrong though and will test it again some more this weekend.

 

[Red Reaper]

DeathAndHealing

This is much better than Death 's thread.. Maybe it's because you're more than just Death....

Anyway, good job. Not many other people have kreated a thread as good as this one for their respective characters.

 

[Raynex]

DeathAndHealing Raynex

From what i've seen in training, superman doesn't have any fully invincible wakeups. I think rising grab is close to being fully invincible though, only seemed like a few frames missing.

I could be wrong though and will test it again some more this weekend.

I tested Superman's rising scoop and Rising Grab against Flash, using his trait to slow down time. I picked moves from Flash's arsenal and did them meaty on wake-up while time was slowed and could visually confirm Superman passing directly through active hitboxes and landing hits. If you time scoop or air grab to be a "wake-up attack", they both gain 7 or 8 invincibility frames, which is more than enough to make them work.

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DeathAndHealing
Could you possibly add these notes to my Aquaman MU write-up, I've done further testing and confirmed more punishable moves. I agree with Wonderchef in that Supes completely obliterates Aquaman; pretty much everything is punishable.

Additions to Aquaman MU section:

- Blocked Trident or Water Shield activation are punishable by Super from anywhere, including full screen, corner to corner.

- this one is by FAR the most important. Trident stabs (DF+1) always hits for 4 hits. Aquaman can alter his hop forwards or backwards slightly while performing the move to either land more hits or make it safer. Superman's F23 can punish stabs regardless of when or how it hits. It doesn't even matter if he hops backwards twice, you can STILL punish him. Basically Aquaman can't cancel into any special move safely when he's fighting you up close. If he simply does B12 and doesn't cancel into anything he puts himself at negative frames, so you get a free F23 attempt or whatever else you desire. He literally hands momentum to you the minute you block his moves. Superman can ALSO punish the [MB] version of Trident stabs with F23. If he hops backwards to the point that he's not even hitting your block, you can punish him with a full jump in combo!

- Trident Scoop (DB+1) is punishable by F23 regardless of if he attempted it point blank, or max range with perfect spacing.

 

[Loth Ryo]

Raynex do you think using rising grab as a wake up against doomsday special knockdowns?

 

[Raynex]

Raynex do you think using rising grab as a wake up against doomsday special knockdowns?

These are my current notes from match-up testing, hope it helps! (I'll answer your question first)

Doomsday MU:

Punishing:

- Meterless Shoulder Bash can be punished with F23 or D1 into full combos; F23 is preferred.

- Body Splash (jD3) can be punished by dashing underneath DD and performing F23 from behind.

- Unblockable Shoulder can be punished in two ways:
Midscreen *dash underneath after you block his rising animation and F23 when he lands.
Doomsday in Corner *dash underneath and jump forwards, cross-up j3 and combo him back into corner.
You can keep him in the corner this way and continue to pummel him.
(dash underneath, instant air dash forward J2 is also an option that keeps him cornered)

General Tips:

- Earth Shaker (DF+2), as we all know, is a ridiculous overhead~low move that provides DD with a hard knockdown. If you're hit by it midscreen, he isn't close enough to do anything that beats a properly timed wake-up scoop or rising grab. In this scenario he has to dash forward to maintain point blank spacing, but that makes it even easier for you to beat his continued pressure with wake-up moves. It's a simple 50/50. Also consider backdashing to avoid his strings; though his long range grab will definitely catch you. If you're knocked down in the corner, even if DD does meaty moves perfectly, Supes wake-ups go right through them.

- [MB] Shoulder Bash is +6 on block, which guarantees many frame traps for DD. Don't press buttons unless you want to eat more attacks and be facedown on the floor again. Be patient and keep your fingers hovered over the grab buttons, react to grab attempts and backdash when necessary. Try your best to find holes in his pressure so you can escape without wasting meter (you need it for combo damage). The most consistent and safe answer to his [MB] Shoulder is to pushblock the [MB] hit, thus negating his advantage. You break even this way (he uses a bar, you use a bar) and get out of his nonsense scot-free, but it's at the cost of a meter.

 

[Loth Ryo]

There are my current notes from match-up testing, hope it helps! (I'll answer your question first)

Doomsday MU:

Punishing:

- Meterless Shoulder Bash can be punished with F23 or D1 into full combos; F23 is preferred.

- Body Splash (jD3) can be punished by dashing underneath DD and performing F23 from behind.

- Unblockable Shoulder can be punished in two ways:
Midscreen *dash underneath after you block his rising animation and F23 when he lands.
Doomsday in Corner *dash underneath and jump forwards, cross-up j3 and combo him back into corner.
You can keep him in the corner this way and continue to pummel him.
(dash underneath, instant air dash forward J2 is also an option that keeps him cornered)

General Tips:

- Earth Shaker (DF+2), as we all know, is a ridiculous overhead~low move that provides DD with a hard knockdown. If you're hit by it midscreen, he isn't close enough to do anything that beats a properly timed wake-up scoop or rising grab. In this scenario he has to dash forward to maintain point blank spacing, but that makes it even easier for you to beat his continued pressure with wake-up moves. It's a simple 50/50. Also consider backdashing to avoid his strings; though his long range grab will definitely catch you. If you're knocked down in the corner, even if DD does meaty moves perfectly, Supes wake-ups go right through them.

- [MB] Shoulder Bash is +6 on block, which guarantees many frame traps for DD. Don't press buttons unless you want to eat more attacks and be facedown on the floor again. Be patient and keep your fingers hovered over the grab buttons, react to grab attempts and backdash when necessary. Try your best to find holes in his pressure so you can escape. The most consistent and safe answer to his [MB] Shoulder is to pushblock the [MB] hit, thus negating his advantage. You break even this way (he uses a bar, you use a bar), but you get out of his nonsense scot-free.

You are the man, I'm going to drill this stuff, I appreciate all your well written responses so helpful.

 

[DanCock]

At work ATM but curious if anyone else has issues waking up with him with out worrying about being punished to death ?

I have just started blocking then meter block push. It's annoying that I have to burn meter to wake up O_O


Sent from my iPad 2 using Tapatalk

 

[DeathAndHealing]

Yo everyone Im taking a break today but still on TYM chat goofing off. Raynex Low Scoop and Rising absolutely confirmed to be invincible if done as wake up attacks? You dont have a little write up on SuperMan based wake up strat/options do you?

 

[Raynex]

DeathAndHealing This is what I do, and it's based on personal testing in and out of casual matches / tournament in a variety of scenarios.

- In all normal knockdown situations you can do a wake-up Scoop or Rising Grab and it will blatantly go through attacks. This suggests the invincibility is present and good enough to utilize. Whether it covers the entirety of both move's duration is yet to be seen. What I'm absolutely certain about is that the start-up frames of both moves are invincible. You MUST see the words "wake-up" flash on screen in order to obtain the invincibility needed. With correct timing, this usually adds 7 or 8 frames of invincibility to the special move performed (sometimes more sometimes less). I've used both moves as wake-ups and have had a very high success rate, as a matter of fact I've never seen either move lose as long as "wake-up" invincibility is acquired. Long story short, they are both good so work on your timing. Generally speaking you want to input the motion for your wake-up attack before you are visually off the ground. It's an MK9 thing.

- Rising Grab is his best wake-up because Superman can't actually be punished when his feet hit the ground. They have to hit you airborne, and it's crazy fast...most opponents will miss the opportunity. It's also useful to swap positions if you're knocked down in the corner, which is the worst place to be in this game. Scoop leads to much more damage though, 40+% if you have the right resources. It's only real downside is how unsafe it is. Choose wisely!

I'm open to the possibility of being wrong on this, but at the moment I think it's safe to say they're good wake-ups.

 

[Knoterror]

Rising Grab is pretty good I find. It also carries the benefit of sharing an opposite button sequence with breath, so breath can AA them on an unexpected cross up or you mistime.

And yeah it's safer than people think. If blocked, you actually can't punish with anything other than D1 (or something with similar speed), despite what the frame data says. I've tried and tried in practice to block it and punish with F2 and never could.

Whiffed though, can easily be AA combod.

 

[Jayroc]

Can someone confirm 223 is safe or unsafe on block? Pretty sure a good Aquaman could punish it full combo with his low poke string. Almost certain d1 specials can full combo that string if blocked.

 

[Joshkazkab]

isnt 223 -4 on block? You should be able to block anything after it.

 

[Jayroc]

Can someone confirm 223 is safe or unsafe on block? Pretty sure a good Aquaman could punish it full combo with his low poke string. Almost certain d1 specials can full combo that string if blocked.

I mustve been too slow I see it now in the guide once I looked harder. Thanks, sry spamming the thread :-(.

 

[Compbros]

I'm experimenting with using D3 as a combo ender and then doing ground smash for a full combo after. Getting about 33 percent meterless from the OTG, clearly shouldn't be used constantly but might be a good option at times. Still testing stuff out though.

 

[Joshkazkab]

Try switching that D3 to F2D13 It should yield more damage.

 

[Compbros]

Try switching that D3 to F2D13 It should yield more damage.

I'll try it but that might knock them too far away, you have to hit like the back of their head so you land behind them so you can combo.

 

[Joshkazkab]

You can still do that if you dash in and do a IAGS I believe.

 

[Compbros]

I'll try it.

 

[DeathAndHealing]

Raynex Can you confirm if d1~MB Super Breath still works? Also, which character are you testing against? I was fairly certain it worked myself but today I cant get it to combo.

 

[Beck__]

D1 xx DB2 mb does not combo. D1 xx DB2 does combo.

 

[Raynex]

D1 xx DB2 mb does not combo. D1 xx DB2 does combo.

Please stop the misinformation. It's a very useful tool and I'd hate for people to avoid using it because of a player's erroneous claims. I'm going to clear this up one last time in a big summative post.

DeathAndHealing

For what I hope will be the final time, D1 xx [MB] DB+2 IS A TRUE COMBO. I tested it in two ways:

- Set a variety of opponents to autoblock, so they block anything after the D1 that doesn't actually combo. Tested it until I consistently saw the "2 hit" indicator pop up on the screen, confirming it is a real 1,2 combo.

- Set dummy to record as Superman, performing D1 xx [MB] DB2. I select playback and manually take the D1 hit and attempt to block the follow-up [MB] Breath. I can't block it. Not even once. It's a real combo everyone!

Why is it so good? D1 is 6 frames, which falls into category of "fastest moves in the game". It is Superman's only way of punishing -6 or -7 frame moves when blocked, as his next fastest move is 8 frames. [MB] Breath is -3 on block which means it is completely safe and nothing in the game, aside from Superman's super (2 frames), can punish it. If [MB] Breath connects however, you get a full combo (39% meterless / 43% trait). If you're being bullied up close, you can mash out a D1 xx [MB] Breath and if it interrupts pokes, holes in pressure, or poorly managed frame traps you get a full combo straight into knockdowns which shifts momentum entirely. If you guess wrong and they block both the D1 and Breath its COMPLETELY safe. It's a risk free combo attempt at the cost of 1 Bar.

During this weekend's Road to Evo event I was was using it profusely, and I remember something incredible happening when I was playing Maxter in casuals. He was pressuring me with Catwoman strings, and I performed D1 xx [MB] Breath in between some pokes. He blocked the D1 and tried to D1 me back before the Breath came out, but I hit him first! It functions as a pseudo-trap; your opponent retaliates but Superman's ice breath is what they will be punching, therefore you always win the exchange.

D1 xx [MB]Breath will catch people jumping, poking, or backdashing between the D1 and Breath portion. PLUS, if it hits it combos! I'm done with people not believing this shit works. A lengthy video or explanation isn't needed for this matter, just go into training mode and cancel it FAST.

I wish you guys all the best with this!

 

[DeathAndHealing]

Raynex Sorry to be a hassle I have to test all the information thats coming my way. My hd pvr broke today so I asked Wonder Chef to make a video testing it for me

We cannot get this to combo at all. It will catch some back dashes, jumps, and any standing normal however.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Please stop the misinformation. It's a very useful tool and I'd hate for people to avoid using it because of a player's erroneous claims. I'm going to clear this up one last time in a big summative post.
snip

Seriously I tried it like fifty times against like ten different characters. There is NO WAY that d1 xx MB Breath combos. Normal breath will combo but 100% not MB. I tried all char sizes, standing and crouching, etc.

Also when you said that Maxter tried to poke you back but the ice caught him, he probably used too slow of a normal or he mistimed it because you can punish it with at least 8 frame normals (Superman F2 interrupted it.) I show this in the video by using d1.

 

[Raynex]

DeathAndHealing I don't have proper recording equipment, but I had to clear my name. Before you ask, yes I have the patched version. If you compare our two videos, you'll notice I cancel D1 to [MB] Breath much faster than Chef. Maybe the misconception is that I'm doing a later cancel, or perhaps even linking it? Neither is true, I'm just doing it fast.

EGP Wonder_Chef, the reason you're able to interrupt with an 8 frame move is probably because of the aforementioned speed issue. The gap would be smaller if you did it quicker, no? I hope this shitty 8 second video I made helps my case.

 

[DeathAndHealing]

Raynex Okay.. So I would like to say how the **** are you doing this? lol. Clearly you are right, we are wrong, you are handsome, we are but humble creatures of the night.

I cant even get d1~MB Super Breath to register as a 2 hit combo when block is off. This is literally driving me insane.