Strategy Advantages of b2d3 vortex ender vs 111

[protools27]

You don't need to add anything to a 50/50 mix-up. The j2 after b2d3 vortex ender doesn't cross up. You are giving the opponent a free pushblock to get out of the vortex. It's totally worth 1 meter to get out of her vortex. Why do you need them to respect the jump in? They are already dealing with a 50/50.

I feel like with batgirl its more than a 50/50 mixup. Though in the end the mixup is the core of batgirls play, I also think that making your opponent frustrated and have to consider more options helps with that 50/50. Let's say I bola you. If im going for raw 50/50's its either you block high or low. But if I mix in jump ins and b2d3 along with the standard 111, thats way more thinking your opponent has to do. Am I going to go straight for the low, or go straight for the overhead, or jump in then go for the low, or jump in then go for a overhead, or jump in and go for a overhead low? Even though it comes down to just high or low to start the vortex, the more my opponent is thinking about all the possible options, the better chance I have of a vortex being successful.

 

[Rip Torn]

~snip~ the better chance I have of a vortex being successful.

You aren't really improving on the 50/50 by jumping in. You're giving them an easy read to block high and push block out of the 50/50. You also don't have enough frame advantage after a blocked j2 to run the 50/50. You aren't improving your chances, you're just giving them more ways to escape. Just do b2d3 or 111 into the regular 50/50 without the jump in.

 

[RenegadeVA]

Lemme just get this out there: using B2D3 over and over again like SonicFox managed to do at TFC is NOT OPTIMAL. You're only really abusing people who don't know how to block/punish Batgirl strings.

B2D3 itself is -6 and leaves BG point blank
B2D3 BF3 has a 9 frame gap that's easily punishable.

B2D3 does not offer any additional setups that 111 doesn't already do and does 1% less damage. That's not much, but hey.

I take that back. At +30 B2D3 DOES allow a F3 attempt in the corner without fear of reprisal... however a 29 frame overhead gets blocked a lot.

As people have stated, b2d3 and then JI2 DOES NOT CROSS UP. It will only "cross up" if the opponent isn't attempting to block any direction. If they hold EITHER direction, they will block it.

This gives them a free pushblock.


So let's review. You got them in Bola. You Jump in 2


111 - Standard ender, leaves them close.
21 - This sets up JI3 as a cross up/non cross up depending on your stance compared to theirs.
B2D3 gives you 9 more frames of advantage to do something with at cost of 1%
12 B2- Hard knockdown far
12 B3 Hard knockdown close.
JI 3 instead F21 DF2 MB F21 DB2U Max damage if you want to do it at this point.


After your selected ender

B12- -2 and not punishable. Against some characters, DF2 afterwards is a decent risk.
B2U3- -7 and has pushback. Punishable by certain characters.
B2D3- BF3 Needs meter to do any kind of combo. -6 by itself. Gap when canceling to DF3.
B1 BF3- True Blockstring, needs meter to convert to combo.
B2D3- MBF3- bounce cancel. Costs two meters, but very unlikely they block the first couple of times that they see this.