Tech - Stunt Double A way of eliminating Stunt Double new gap

[ismael4790]

First of all, sorry if this is known, but I haven't seen anything here about it.

In last patch, a gap was introduced between the first and second hit of ex mimic rising shadow, among other nerfs, reducing the effectivity of the variation. There is a way to eliminate this gap and be safe (or even plus).

The thing is after ex mimic rising shadow, you can do a d1, d3, d4 or f3 on block, and it eliminates the gap. Allowing you to punish if the opponent armors after, or use another clone in mimic shadowkick to stay +2.

Although it's not in the video. the option ex mimic rising shadow into f3~ mimic shadowkick is a blockstring. However, last example in the video shows something I don't understand: You do ex mimic rising shadow, then f34 and a gap appears between the 3 and the 4, when this string has not a gap... strange.

 

[ismael4790]

@IrishMantis @Asodimazze @Killer Xinok @Wigy @Frosted 57 @kelevra @ROG Mike @Zionix @Johnny Based Cage and any other Cage player

 

[Zionix]

@IrishMantis @Asodimazze @Killer Xinok @Wigy @Frosted 57 @kelevra @ROG Mike @Zionix @Johnny Based Cage and any other Cage player

Really nice stuff, don't know how viable this makes SD or if it changes much at all. Regardless Its good tech and important to know.

I assume the gap is made via interaction with push-back from ex clones or coding error lol.

 

[Wigy]

You loose the plus frames from the Second part.. So surely you're better just blocking and waiting unless they have some move like smokes ex shift or a command grab.

Not to shit on your parade im sure its got its uses in some MU's,

Thought this was already known as well?

 

[coconutshrimp]

Yeah I knew about this. I think the frames on regular up shadow aren't changed and it leaves you at I think 1 or 2 more plus frames than shadow kick. Of it's the same frames as shadow kick, then at least it won't feel like you're stuck in quick dry cement.

Back to this tho, you can also do B4 and it eliminates the gap

 

[Wigy]

Yeah I knew about this. I think the frames on regular up shadow aren't changed and it leaves you at I think 1 or 2 more plus frames than shadow kick. Of it's the same frames as shadow kick, then at least it won't feel like you're stuck in quick dry cement.

Back to this tho, you can also do B4 and it eliminates the gap

B4 is good as you get 18 if u do a csk after.

I mean 18% off a htb which u can add to the end of a combo is pretty nice.

 

[ismael4790]

Yeah I knew about this. I think the frames on regular up shadow aren't changed and it leaves you at I think 1 or 2 more plus frames than shadow kick. Of it's the same frames as shadow kick, then at least it won't feel like you're stuck in quick dry cement.

Back to this tho, you can also do B4 and it eliminates the gap

B4 midscreen reaches after ex mimic rs?

 

[coconutshrimp]

B4 midscreen reaches after ex mimic rs?

Mhm yes it does. Always has

 

[ismael4790]

Mhm yes it does. Always has

Didn't know that. Thought his htb was limited to the corner.

So he has jailing htb midscreen? Lol

 

[Youphemism]

About that last sequence (hope this all makes sense) - the opponent will only be affected by the blockstun of the last move to hit them while they're blocking, they can't be stuck in two blockstuns and blockstun doesn't carry over between moves. Usually F3 has enough blockstun to jail into the 4 but you interrupted that blockstun with the blockstun of the downward mimic, which doesn't last long enough to jail into the 4. If you were able to do the F3 earlier it might have all jailed.

 

[Wigy]

Didn't know that. Thought his htb was limited to the corner.

So he has jailing htb midscreen? Lol

For 18 % two clones and a bar. Yes. Lol

 

[ismael4790]

About that last sequence (hope this all makes sense) - the opponent will only be affected by the blockstun of the last move to hit them while they're blocking, they can't be stuck in two blockstuns and blockstun doesn't carry over between moves. Usually F3 has enough blockstun to jail into the 4 but you interrupted that blockstun with the blockstun of the downward mimic, which doesn't last long enough to jail into the 4. If you were able to do the F3 earlier it might have all jailed.

I imagined that was the reason lol

Thanks for the clear explanation man

 

[ismael4790]

For 18 % two clones and a bar. Yes. Lol

The opponent is sent too far away to land f3 nutpunch after that?

Need to do lab sessions again with this variation xD

 

[Wigy]

Realisically you want to try blow them up not with a d4.

Their option is limited to armour or backdash the gap.

In which case all d4 does is make it not come out but you've given up your plus frames and spent a bar.

Its character dependent but you're probably better of baiting and punishing the armour with a njp or just waiting to see if they armour and F3. Sadly i cant think of much of a use for this.

 

[Wigy]

The opponent is sent too far away to land f3 nutpunch after that?

The csk barely connects. So yeah

 

[SpecOps2013]

Good find. But stunt double needs much more to be viable

 

[ismael4790]

Realisically you want to try blow them up not with a d4.

Their option is limited to armour or backdash the gap.

In which case all d4 does is make it not come out but you've given up your plus frames and spent a bar.

Its character dependent but you're probably better of baiting and punishing the armour with a njp or just waiting to see if they armour and F3. Sadly i cant think of much of a use for this.

I don't think it's big but definitely adds a new layer to the situation.

If they are trying to mash armor, they can get hit by that d1 or d3, then you get new + frames to work with. When they see the gap is not always there after ex mimic rs, that adds respect and you can followup with other things

 

[Wigy]

I don't think it's big but definitely adds a new layer to the situation.

If they are trying to mash armor, they can get hit by that d1 or d3, then you get new + frames to work with. When they see the gap is not always there after ex mimic rs, that adds respect and you can followup with other things

d4 after that setup on hit is about +5 by the looks of it.

You can jail into 12, 214 after ex csk, or break their armour into an up mimic (works on fast armour)

i think if you are spending a bar you should capitalise more than d4 into +5ish.

if they wana armour out they're risking 12% to get out for 40% if you bait their armour... Why would you not want them to armour lol.

You can break fast as shit armour you can make it whiff with a crossover you can do a jailing s1 then walk back to whiff punish you can njp.

D4 isnt guna make them scared to armour, punishing even safe fast armour is guna make them scared.

Go test, jailing s1 walk back f3 whiff punishes jasons great reach 11 frame mid.

12 can break it. Njp punishes it..

Johnny has ways to blow up everything here, its very much in your favour dont waste on a d4.

Against someone with an excellent backdash it could definitely work. Fucking sektor and smoke can eat a dick

 

[IrishMantis]

Nice write up dude

but unfortanatlely its already known

sure i posted that he can still do his HTBs which i tagged you in
https://testyourmight.com/threads/johnny-cage-general-discussion-thread.49920/page-71

 

[ismael4790]

d4 after that setup on hit is about +5 by the looks of it.

You can jail into 12, 214 after ex csk, or break their armour into an up mimic (works on fast armour)

i think if you are spending a bar you should capitalise more than d4 into +5ish.

if they wana armour out they're risking 12% to get out for 40% if you bait their armour... Why would you not want them to armour lol.

You can break fast as shit armour you can make it whiff with a crossover you can do a jailing s1 then walk back to whiff punish you can njp.

D4 isnt guna make them scared to armour, punishing even safe fast armour is guna make them scared.

Go test, jailing s1 walk back f3 whiff punishes jasons great reach 11 frame mid.

If thats not good enough 12 armour breaks so u can hitconfirm into 12 rising shadow, be safe on block, full combo on hit

Johnny has ways to blow up everything here, its very much in your favour dont waste on a d4

New gap starting to look as a buff instead of a nerf lol

Then uses of the tech get reduced to situations where you want to guarantee some chip, or if the opponent has a resource that you can't break with what you said.

 

[Wigy]

Starting to think the new gap is a buff lol


New gap starting to look as a buff instead of a nerf lol

Then uses of the tech get reduced to situations where you want to guarantee some chip, or if the opponent has a resource that you can't break with what you said.

Honestly. Your opponent is an idiot for armouring here more than once in a blue moon, they put it in as a lazy fix to give people options against the htb but its not a good option.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

Nice write up dude

but unfortanatlely its already known

You Cont!! GTFO!

 

[ismael4790]

Nice write up dude

but unfortanatlely its already known

sure i posted that he can still do his HTBs which i tagged you in
https://testyourmight.com/threads/johnny-cage-general-discussion-thread.49920/page-71

Had no idea or simply don't remember sweep connected midscreen, anyway as they say it's not much worthy.

Yep, Paulo failed eliminating the htb xD

 

[IrishMantis]

How to make SD fair and non shit like he is now.

-Make the ex MRS a mid, i use to be against this but id much prefer it to the way he is now

-Either remove the armour of EX MSK completely and let msk launch again or if they can keep it but just make the raw msk launch

-They said they removed 10 frames, but msk was +14 how did it end up being 14 - 10 = 2? plus 4 is a fair number it should of being that

-Give his Ex RS 2 hits of armour

-Remove the gap in his ex fireballs
I found it hilarious how they nerfed it in the patch since the move is fucking useless outside combos

 

[Wigy]

Had no idea or simply don't remember sweep connected midscreen, anyway as they say it's not much worthy.

Yep, Paulo failed eliminating the htb xD

Funny the only thing people wanted sorted on sd was the htb and they fucked everything except the htb.

Paulo's vision.