a problem or not a problem

[Vulcan Hades]

It's not that the strings are duckable or interruptable, it's that the gaps are so big you can literally avoid her pressure by jumping out in the middle of her blockstrings and/or get a full combo via an 11 start up normal.

Johnny Cage jumps right through her attacks where other characters would've probably hit you in mid air if you tried to jump or simply would just lock you down in blockstun like Jax, KL, Raiden, Reptile, Kabal or Cage. Then again, if Sonya COULD lock you in blockstun, wouldn't that make her a little too good?

 

[Shady]

It's not that the strings are duckable or interruptable, it's that the gaps are so big you can literally avoid her pressure by jumping out in the middle of her blockstrings and/or get a full combo via an 11 start up normal.

Johnny Cage jumps right through her attacks where other characters would've probably hit you in mid air if you tried to jump or simply would just lock you down in blockstun like Jax, KL, Raiden, Reptile, Kabal or Cage. Then again, if Sonya COULD lock you in blockstun, wouldn't that make her a little too good?

To Sao, yeah, you can uppercut, but here we come back to this again, can you punish with a full combo?

And to Vulcan yeah, she may be too good, but I mean maybe you'd just have to low poke out of it like for any other pressure character (like, i don't know, Johnny Cage?) not just disregard her. Yes pressure strings can be uppercutted out of and even poked out of, but I've never seen one being combo'ed out. I want to take Sao's word for it, but I will test some of these tomorrow, and until then, this and Sektor's one are the only two I'm aware of.

 

[Sao87]

To Sao, yeah, you can uppercut, but here we come back to this again, can you punish with a full combo?

And to Vulcan yeah, she may be too good, but I mean maybe you'd just have to low poke out of it like for any other pressure character (like, i don't know, Johnny Cage?) not just disregard her. Yes pressure strings can be uppercutted out of and even poked out of, but I've never seen one being combo'ed out. I want to take Sao's word for it, but I will test some of these tomorrow, and until then, this and Sektor's one are the only two I'm aware of.

Again, Sektors 1, 2, b1 isn't full comboable. Tom Hanks is complaining that the first hit whiffs overhead if the opponent is crouch blocking which means he is vulnerable to being interrupted.

 

[THTB]

This kinda isn't a new concept...and in actuality things like this make the game more interesting.

 

[Shady]

This kinda isn't a new concept...and in actuality things like this make the game more interesting.

OH man, I wish Reptile had a string where even if you input the whole combo I could just say fuck it in the middle of it and start my own combo. . I'm just trolling you THTB, but yeah, pocking and uppercutting out of shit like this is not new, bringing out a full combo with complete disregard for what the opponent has done is a little disturbing.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Dont think its that big of a problem, since she has the divekick people will always want to block while you're in the air = more often than not a free JIP which you can get block strings off of where they are forced to stand or eat a full combo.

B21 misses on the 1st hit but on the 2nd hit hits special mid, try using that too.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

again guys this is not about you getting uppertcut out of your high strings this is about a character who has so little stun on her strings that you can freely jump out or go for a combo in the between them and how easy it is to do it.

.
Sonya isn't the only character that has moves that whiff overhead and can be punished or poked out of. Doing a combo in between a block string isn't very realistic in an actual match anyways.

doing a combo between a block string on sonya it is very realistic it is not hard at all
and can you please named other characters that can be combo between their block stings?

off the top of my head Raiden eats full combos between some of his block strings. Why aren't people punishing him with full combos though?

Sektor can be punished by a full combo in between the 1, 4 of his 2, 1, 4 string as well.

raiden? what string because if you are talking about b312 i really do not think that is posible only armor moves can. . . and even if it was posible out of 10 time i would like to see how many time you can do it maybe one time? but with sonya out of 10 times you can do it 10 time lol and that is on 4 of her mean block strings not just one

 

[JacopeX]

This video is amazing. I also smell an advanced strategy.

I voted no problem. Stopping in the middle of a string is just as hard as punishing a character in the middle of their whiffed strings. You barely see it happen in high level play.

 

[bombrider]

is not really the same sektor can only be uppercut out of it you can not try to jump out against sektor or go for a combo sonya eats a full combo on reaction

Sektor's big problem is that his overheads can't really be used to deter anyone from crouching him, whereas Sonya as a myriad of overheads. His only 2 overheads is the second 2 in the 1, 2, 2 which doesn't matter cause opponents can crouch under the 1 and 2 of the string. Sektor's other overhead forces him to go into that awkward leg lift stance...a handicap imposed on no other character in the game. The leg lift stance can't be linked in from other attacks, and it only gives him two attacks one of them he has normally. So in reality, leg lift stance only gives one attack he doesn't normal have...

In the case of Sektor, you can't make the 1, 2 hit mid because that actually leaves Sektor at advantage on block. Sektor's leg lift stance needs to be removed in favor of giving him a normal overhead like everyone else.

In any event, I'm voting the issue with Sonya as a problem that needs to be fixed, but I think it also needs to be fixed with Sektor too.

 

[Past]

This video is amazing. I also smell an advanced strategy.

I'm gonna go to the training room with Liu Kang and Kenshi to see if their high strings wiff like in the video. If they do, i'll be excited for what's to come and i'll actually have use for those strings I never use after all. Explanation? Bait. Bait. And Bait.

I'll just bait that uppercut and blocked combos. I may even parry with Liu Kang or punish their movements with Kenshi's specials in normal or EX versions. This game has gotten a lot more interesting now. Just like in SF, i'm going to try certain combos and move on my opponent and see how they react to them, then I will play accordingly. If they know his trick, i'd be ready with a response.

I voted no problem. Stopping in the middle of a string is just as hard as punishing a character in the middle of their whiffed strings. You barely see it happen in high level play.

Don't you get it? Strings in this game are not cancelable on whiff. You can't special cancel, dash cancel or anything. You can't bait an opponent's move after you whiff a string.

 

[Ruuku1012]

Can every character even crouch block to make her whiff? Do her strings not jail on stand block?

 

[spongebob]

Sektor's big problem is that his overheads can't really be used to deter anyone from crouching him, whereas Sonya as a myriad of overheads. His only 2 overheads is the second 2 in the 1, 2, 2 which doesn't matter cause opponents can crouch under the 1 and 2 of the string. Sektor's other overhead forces him to go into that awkward leg lift stance...a handicap imposed on no other character in the game. The leg lift stance can't be linked in from other attacks, and it only gives him two attacks one of them he has normally. So in reality, leg lift stance only gives one attack he doesn't normal have...

In the case of Sektor, you can't make the 1, 2 hit mid because that actually leaves Sektor at advantage on block. Sektor's leg lift stance needs to be removed in favor of giving him a normal overhead like everyone else.

In any event, I'm voting the issue with Sonya as a problem that needs to be fixed, but I think it also needs to be fixed with Sektor too.

Not to derail the thread but its been discussed time and time again why sektors leg lift should stay. People value overhead/low mixups way too much in this game when the majority are fuzzy guardable and/ or one or both options are ridiculously unsafe. The best mixups come from whether to block or try interrupt jump out etc.

I'm not going to go into why nothing should be changed about sektor save from his upmissle fix but I voted no.

 

[bombrider]

Not to derail the thread but its been discussed time and time again why sektors leg lift should stay. People value overhead/low mixups way too much in this game when the majority are fuzzy guardable and/ or one or both options are ridiculously unsafe. The best mixups come from whether to block or try interrupt jump out etc.

I'm not going to go into why nothing should be changed about sektor save from his upmissle fix but I voted no.

It is as you say, that mixups that force the opponent to try to interupt your attack string or continue to block are the better mixups. That seems more like a reason in favor of leg lift's removal despite what has "been discussed time and time again" than to say it should stay.

 

[Maxter]

riu48 is 100% right, i was testing sonya strings and all of her combos can be easily interrupted on the second hit "all of her combo strings" anyone who knows this would use this as an advantage, this is why sonya depends too much on down 4 and going into military stance, some characters have combos that the first or second hit wiff on duck and block or just ducking, but all of her combos being able to get punished is not a fair game, hope this gets fixed next patch before people start abusing the situation

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

1,2,b1 has been punished by full combo with Lao (not starting with spin) and a roll with Mileena just last week.

Don't want to derail thread, just putting it out there.

 

[spongebob]

1,2,b1 has been punished by full combo with Lao (not starting with spin) and a roll with Mileena just last week.

Don't want to derail thread, just putting it out there.

Well that applies to any string where the first hits are true high's doesnt it? I don't see how 12b1 is special or anything tbh.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

1) sonya does not have many overhead she has one f4 and it is easy to see it coming so there is not reason to do not duck against her

the biggest problem is that all of her strings that combo you can jump out of them or combo her out of it fallowing the same rule block duck the first hit then stand and combo no matter what she is doing ''


in my opinion no character should have strings like this it is just stupid however i like sonya and i will not stop using her because of this after all i new this since the first day i started to use her and this is why i keep telling people that she is no even close to be as good as johnny cage in a face to face fight

this only does one thing to the way i been using her ''nothing'' but it is sad

 

[Ruuku1012]

Can every character even crouch block to make her whiff? Do her strings not jail on stand block?

So does anyone have an answer to that question?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

So does anyone have an answer to that question?

114 21 and 112 jail for sure

 

[Ruuku1012]

The only reason why I'm saying this is because I feel that high/mid/low isn't the only mix-up layer in this game. Additionally, I'm finding a large amount of factors that are character specific. I mean, was this tested against everyone? There's so many hitbox/stance oddities in this this game, you never know.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

The only reason why I'm saying this is because I feel that high/mid/low isn't the only mix-up layer in this game. Additionally, I'm finding a large amount of factors that are character specific. I mean, was this tested against everyone? There's so many hitbox/stance oddities in this this game, you never know.

312 can not be stop by sheeva and f22 will hit sheeva and rain when they are crouching that is about it

 

[Justice]

I think the terminology is what needs "patching". I do agree that Sonya needs "re-examining". Her concept is in-your-face rushdown and relies heavily on "realistic" combos. Her X-Ray is an 11-hit combo for crying out loud and the first half can be dodged or D4'd. Not arguing with this, just giving people an idea of where NRS was going with Sonya.

Now on to the show.

Fighting games are all about choices. Make the wrong choice, get punished. Sonya is no different except that it is much easier to get more damage against her since her ideal range leave her open to an opponent's kombos on whiff/block. Noone is arguing that if you make a bad choice that you shouldn't get punished to the extent of the skill of your opponent. Having all over basic kombos escapable by merely standing up and walking/jumping away is cause for concern. Sonya's character concept is massive damage through dizzying kombos. If she can't even land those kombos even after successfully making her opening, or at least have the moves come out fast enough that your opponent is forced to remain blocked and take chip damage, what does she have? That's 95% of her arsenal right out the window.

That's what I would suggest NRS do. Re-examine Sonya vs. her concept and maybe give a frame here and there of block stun or maybe speed up some of her 2nd hits to keep her opponent trapped. There is no way her opponent should be able to do anything until the kombo ends and Sonya leaves herself open with Kombo Fatigue.

And to all those saying they won't see this in tournament, I offer this example from my own experience:

I'm in the lab vs. Reptile (yes, I'm lookin' at you THBH :suckit and there were a number of occasions where I would start up a f2b4 and would eat and EX Dash while the second hit was in his face. There was also a number of occasions where I ate a 28-30% kombo during a 114. Now you all want to tell me that all tournament-level players are too stoopid to recognize and exploit a flaw that an Expert AI can?

 

[Evil_Riu48]

the way i see this is simple getting uppercut out of all your string is bad but not much of a problem people jumping out of your block strings and doing a combo on you between your strings for a so call rushdown characters is stupid

 

[dangerous Dave]

What swift Tom Hanks if refering to is that in 12b1 even if the the first punch hits the second one may wiff. That being said let's get back to Sonya, JC was right girls shouldn't be allowed to fight, they can't even string thier strings.

 

[VIDA]

So a char who's main game is supposed to to be short range frame traps and inurface rushdown...has block strings with holes so big you can pull off combos with ELEVEN FRAME STARTERS...and some of you think this isnt a problem?

Imagine if JC had this problem...his whole playstyle would be pointless. Giving her too much block stun on the string starters might make them abusible, just make the second hit of two of her strings at least special mid. I thought she had a couple strings that were M,M,M (M=special mid) anyway.