TakeAChance
TYM White Knight
I am creating this thread to bring to light the problems associated with this variation. It is to bring to light some very real issues this variation has and why it cannot be used competively in the current meta of MKX. It is not to bitch, it is not to moan, it is to educate and hopefully bring about some positive change.
First of all, Piercing is pretty much the only Mileena variation that matters competitively. This is sad and defeats the entire purpose of the variation system. As someone who started out with piercing, then on to Ravenous, I have to say I love the potential of the variation, but it definitely does not feel complete.
Lets look at Ravenous's tools.
Now lets breakdown those tools.
THE B12 1+2 Bug
Basically, with some extensive time with the variation, I have determined that Ravenous Mileena needs her holes fixed. Some potential fixes for Ravenous Mileena imo would be as follows:
Conclusion
I dont feel as though Ravenous Mileena is "bad" I just don't feel like she was finished. The purpose of this thread was not to cry for buffs, it was to simply point out her massive flaws. The great thing is she doesn't need extra moves, more armor, or anything drastic, she simply just needs a couple massive canyon hole to be filled. I feel with the changes above, or anything close to those changes Ravenous Mileena can actually compete.
Thanks for reading and feel free to comment below.
@Mr. Mileena
@JDE
@1man3letters
@Sultani
@All Other Mileena Mains.
First of all, Piercing is pretty much the only Mileena variation that matters competitively. This is sad and defeats the entire purpose of the variation system. As someone who started out with piercing, then on to Ravenous, I have to say I love the potential of the variation, but it definitely does not feel complete.
Lets look at Ravenous's tools.
Here is a pro and con chart comparing the gifts of Ravenous along with their cons.
Now lets breakdown those tools.
As you can see above, we are given two very good tools in high and low pounce. These are the main tools of the variation, however as they are currently designed, I do not believe they are working as intended. The high and low pounce both do 16% damage on a naked hit, the high pounce is a mid while the low pounce is a true low.
High pounce is a comboable mid pounce that will connect on hit from strings, or tick on block. It is great for reversing positions mid combo after a roll and is her go to damage ender if she wants to switch sides. She can buffer it on to any cancellable string to extend it.
The problem is that the high pounce while safe against almost the entire cast, ends her pressure on block. Often times leaving her at more disadvantage then her cancellable strings on her own. To give you an example of this, look at her b12 string. B12 is a really good advancing mid that mileena can use in the neutral. If she does naked b12 she is left at -5, if she does B12~high pounce she is now left at -7. Another good example is F12b4~high pounce. F12b4 leaves her at -4 while F12b4 high pounce leaves her at -7. Seeing as the opponent can block high or low against this option, Mileena never really gains anything from it on a block string, in fact, she loses.
Low pounce is her pseudo overhead. This command grab will only connect on naked and crouching block, and it will NOT connect while an opponent is in hitstun. Basically, you have to ensure the opponent stays blocking in order for this move to connect, or they need to already be in a juggle state. Any tick throw from d1, d3, and d4 CANNOT BE COUNTER POKED, which is a very powerful conditioning tool.
Low pounce sounds amazing on paper, but the tools this variation possesses makes it very hard to setup and take advantage of. She has ONE string that possesses a low pounce mixup: 21U4. She can tick 2~low pounce or she can do 21 for a high low. If she ticks 2~low pounce she can catch someone waiting to block the low of the string. The only problem is, this is never confirmable for me the user, and if the opponent wants to blow me up for it, they can read the buffer block standing also covering the 2~ex overhead mixup. The low grab would whiff and I would be at -26 and full combo punishable. The other problem with this, is her 2 is a true high. This means that if I buffer in 2~lowpounce, and the opponent is crouching to begin with I just get 2 which whiffs and I am left standing in the wind. Seeing as off a jump in, Mileena has no true overhead threat other than EX Roll, many players smartly crouch block to cover the f4, if I buffer 2~low pounce I just get a standing 2. I have to then start throwing out JIP Low Pounce to condition a low pounce/F4 mixup both of which leave me dead if thrown out with an option select.
The only other viable uses for the low pounce tick is off her down pokes, but once again, due to it not connecting on hit, it's a wild gamble to take. For instance, lets say I am conditioning an opponent with my low pokes and f4. I finally go for my D3~low pounce tick,however my d3 connects, my low pounce now whiffs and I am full combo punished. If my opponent starts expecting it, they will start standing blocking after the d3 on block effectively removing the threat of the pounce, but opening them up to further poke abusal. That's pretty much the meta with low pounce, but its always a wild gamble to take considering you will be -10 on block or -26 on whiff.
Here is a full list of Mileenas possible tick situations with low pounce:
All of those strings with the exception of 2~lowpounce can all universally be covered by simply stand blocking after the lows. If F12~low pounce ticked, she would have a viable mid low pounce mixup and would open up her game. As it stands however, a low pounce would only connect after a blocked D4 and the opponent has no reason to not stand up after the f4 and start their pressure.
High pounce is a comboable mid pounce that will connect on hit from strings, or tick on block. It is great for reversing positions mid combo after a roll and is her go to damage ender if she wants to switch sides. She can buffer it on to any cancellable string to extend it.
The problem is that the high pounce while safe against almost the entire cast, ends her pressure on block. Often times leaving her at more disadvantage then her cancellable strings on her own. To give you an example of this, look at her b12 string. B12 is a really good advancing mid that mileena can use in the neutral. If she does naked b12 she is left at -5, if she does B12~high pounce she is now left at -7. Another good example is F12b4~high pounce. F12b4 leaves her at -4 while F12b4 high pounce leaves her at -7. Seeing as the opponent can block high or low against this option, Mileena never really gains anything from it on a block string, in fact, she loses.
Low pounce is her pseudo overhead. This command grab will only connect on naked and crouching block, and it will NOT connect while an opponent is in hitstun. Basically, you have to ensure the opponent stays blocking in order for this move to connect, or they need to already be in a juggle state. Any tick throw from d1, d3, and d4 CANNOT BE COUNTER POKED, which is a very powerful conditioning tool.
Low pounce sounds amazing on paper, but the tools this variation possesses makes it very hard to setup and take advantage of. She has ONE string that possesses a low pounce mixup: 21U4. She can tick 2~low pounce or she can do 21 for a high low. If she ticks 2~low pounce she can catch someone waiting to block the low of the string. The only problem is, this is never confirmable for me the user, and if the opponent wants to blow me up for it, they can read the buffer block standing also covering the 2~ex overhead mixup. The low grab would whiff and I would be at -26 and full combo punishable. The other problem with this, is her 2 is a true high. This means that if I buffer in 2~lowpounce, and the opponent is crouching to begin with I just get 2 which whiffs and I am left standing in the wind. Seeing as off a jump in, Mileena has no true overhead threat other than EX Roll, many players smartly crouch block to cover the f4, if I buffer 2~low pounce I just get a standing 2. I have to then start throwing out JIP Low Pounce to condition a low pounce/F4 mixup both of which leave me dead if thrown out with an option select.
The only other viable uses for the low pounce tick is off her down pokes, but once again, due to it not connecting on hit, it's a wild gamble to take. For instance, lets say I am conditioning an opponent with my low pokes and f4. I finally go for my D3~low pounce tick,however my d3 connects, my low pounce now whiffs and I am full combo punished. If my opponent starts expecting it, they will start standing blocking after the d3 on block effectively removing the threat of the pounce, but opening them up to further poke abusal. That's pretty much the meta with low pounce, but its always a wild gamble to take considering you will be -10 on block or -26 on whiff.
Here is a full list of Mileenas possible tick situations with low pounce:
All of those strings with the exception of 2~lowpounce can all universally be covered by simply stand blocking after the lows. If F12~low pounce ticked, she would have a viable mid low pounce mixup and would open up her game. As it stands however, a low pounce would only connect after a blocked D4 and the opponent has no reason to not stand up after the f4 and start their pressure.
THE B12 1+2 Bug
B12~1+2 is currently borked. I do not believe this string is working as intended. It is almost impossible to finish combos with due to the pounce grab portion of it not connecting when it does easily in piercing. It's not an issue of B12's range as both of those hits connect, it has everything to do with the pounce portion having a very poor active hitbox. It needs to be fixed to be in line with piercings B12~1+2 to be useful.
Basically, with some extensive time with the variation, I have determined that Ravenous Mileena needs her holes fixed. Some potential fixes for Ravenous Mileena imo would be as follows:
1. Make F12~low pounce a true tick. This will give her a true string mixup and make opponents fear the pounce. It also seperates her from piercing because it gives her an entirely new mixup not dependent entirely on EX roll that would net her 16% and a HKD. This change also beefs up her oki game tremendously in ravenous and helps her keep momentum on her side. F12 on it's own is hella negative as well and if the opponent guesses right she is full combo punished.
2. Fix B12 1+2 hitbox so the 1+2 actually connects during longer combo sequences. As it stands right now I have to sacrifice about 8% damage to land this mid screen. Great for a brutality ender, but not practical for ending my combos.
3. Make the High Pounce slightly less negative on block. Let me use this as a mixup tool on the end of my strings. according to her string data above, a sweet spot of -4 on block would allow me to use it as a useable mixup while leaving me in the same negative positions as most of her strings on block would be anyways. This gives me a viable use for the move and would force opponents to perhaps block *JUST* a little while longer.
4. Make 2 a universal mid so 2~low tick becomes viable. This would give her a quick punishing mid, along with a another low pounce mixup.
2. Fix B12 1+2 hitbox so the 1+2 actually connects during longer combo sequences. As it stands right now I have to sacrifice about 8% damage to land this mid screen. Great for a brutality ender, but not practical for ending my combos.
3. Make the High Pounce slightly less negative on block. Let me use this as a mixup tool on the end of my strings. according to her string data above, a sweet spot of -4 on block would allow me to use it as a useable mixup while leaving me in the same negative positions as most of her strings on block would be anyways. This gives me a viable use for the move and would force opponents to perhaps block *JUST* a little while longer.
4. Make 2 a universal mid so 2~low tick becomes viable. This would give her a quick punishing mid, along with a another low pounce mixup.
Conclusion
I dont feel as though Ravenous Mileena is "bad" I just don't feel like she was finished. The purpose of this thread was not to cry for buffs, it was to simply point out her massive flaws. The great thing is she doesn't need extra moves, more armor, or anything drastic, she simply just needs a couple massive canyon hole to be filled. I feel with the changes above, or anything close to those changes Ravenous Mileena can actually compete.
Thanks for reading and feel free to comment below.
@Mr. Mileena
@JDE
@1man3letters
@Sultani
@All Other Mileena Mains.
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