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Question - A-List A - List vs Dvorah

What is your guys game plan going up against D'vorah as A list? I'm struggling a lot in the MU, and it's mainly due to 3 things. Neutral, zoning, and pressure.

Neutral: Neutral is so hard ( at least for me ) in this match. When you're just outside the range of getting f3 to hit, i literally cant see an option. You obviously cant jump, Johnny's floaty jump, mixed with how good Dvorah's anti airs are, means she can pretty much cover the ground, and react to the air. d4 wont reach, f3 wont reach, and as i said you cant jump, so i'm at a loss for how to get started.

Zoning: This one.. is just stupid. As im sure you're all aware, Dvorah can literally run through/under A list's projectiles. The neutral issue wouldn't be as much of a problem if the projectiles worked, as it would give Dvorah a reason to come to us. But they dont, so again, it forces us to go to her, and going to her is hard, due to what i stated earlier.

Pressure: Aaanddd as im sure you all know again, s1 whiffs on a crouch blocking Dvorah. This makes going for 11/113/114/12(1) after anything scary. She can d2, she can d1 for frame advantage, etc. I know there are ways around it, such as f3xxf3, f3xxf24 to catch the crouch block, but it's frustrating needing to go for a read everytime i want pressure, on something that should be guaranteed. And to add to all that good stuff, EX forceballs at the end of, example 114, can be completely whiff punished by her, if the Dvorah player ducks.

Based off what i just wrote, is there some magical tool im missing in making this MU easier ? How do you guys approach it?

Also, ive been thinking of learning Stunt Double lately, for the GM MU. Do you guys prefer SD against Dvorah ? Cheers
 

Wigy

There it is...
D'vora is the closest thing to the anti-jc its horrid.

You cant play this conventionally,

If you cross over, almost always j4 to catch her doing a d1. If u hit it at the right time u can convert to full combo.

From distance if u jump in it has to be a j3. But try to avoid jumping.

Also, 21 doesnt whiff crouch blocking so use 21 skc grab a lot. If u go with 214 (0 on block) she has no 7 frame poke so you're actually +1 really on poke game with your d3 so with that what you will.

My gameplan is baiting silly swarms or f11 and whiff punishing. D3/d4 can basically not be punished. Get her to the corner by some miracle and do your thing, you can still break her armour i believe.

Or use SD

With his clones, you can actually play neutral.

But tbh i struggle for a gameplan also
 
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D'vora is the closest thing to the anti-jc its horrid.

You cant play this conventionally,

If you cross over, almost always j4 to catch her doing a d1. If u hit it at the right time u can convert to full combo.

From distance if u jump in it has to be a j3. But try to avoid jumping.

Also, 21 doesnt whiff crouch blocking so use 21 skc grab a lot. If u go with 214 (0 on block) she has no 7 frame poke so you're actually +1 really on poke game with your d3 so with that what you will.

My gameplan is baiting silly swarms or f11 and whiff punishing. D3/d4 can basically not be punished. Get her to the corner by some miracle and do your thing, you can still break her armour i believe.

Or use SD

With his clones, you can actually play neutral.

But tbh i struggle for a gameplan also
Fuck oathh, i'd honestly fight GM Sub over Dvorah any day. So far its the hardest MU for him ive played. I never use 21/214 in pressure, ill give it a go next time. That ghetto af though
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
I've found myself going SD against this matchup as well. A-list pressure whiffs so many times it's not even funny.
At least in SD you can make them at least a bit scared to press buttons and actually do some pressure with straight clone. Not to mention ex rising clone which is a godsent.
 

EGP Awesomo

R.T.S.D
Idk, I've played with honeybee, detroitballn, reo and Krayzie(all great swarm queens) I think a list wins the MU, it's scary but you just got to wait outside of your comfortable range(f3) and let her come to you. D4 her f1 and just use f3 rc f3, mix in some throws. On knockdown I feel like Dvorah has 0 options against Johnny and your pressure is better than hers. So just wait and when you get your d4 check on her just got ham
 

Saltea Mike

ROG Mike
Premium Supporter
I've played a lot against @7horx d'vorah as a-list.

I'm pretty sure thorx can confirm this - I've always cried when playing against his SQ.

If the d'vorah knows footsies (hah, mkx and footsies) well then she'll just throw out d3's since they're unpunishable on whiff for a-list. The moment you go with a whiff punish - probably best option would be f3 - and it's at it's max range - you're gonna get hit with another d3. Then you're just vulnerable to pressure/punish since the frame advantage. The problem is like OP said it - there's basically no way of "getting in". I've asked several a-list players about how they deal with it and nobody was able to give me an actual answer.

The only option i've been told by @Asodimazze is to jump in.

The problem is you gotta either cross-up or be really close with that jump since after d'vorahs whiffed d3 the recovery is so low she can still go for a S1 as an AA.

There's just no need to talk about projectile game - it's nonexistant.

The only option is to get her in the corner and pump out the maximum amount of pressure and damage that is possible. It's still possible for a-list to break her armor.

Overall - better to pick SD / other character.
 
I've played a lot against @7horx d'vorah as a-list.

I'm pretty sure thorx can confirm this - I've always cried when playing against his SQ.

If the d'vorah knows footsies (hah, mkx and footsies) well then she'll just throw out d3's since they're unpunishable on whiff for a-list. The moment you go with a whiff punish - probably best option would be f3 - and it's at it's max range - you're gonna get hit with another d3. Then you're just vulnerable to pressure/punish since the frame advantage. The problem is like OP said it - there's basically no way of "getting in". I've asked several a-list players about how they deal with it and nobody was able to give me an actual answer.

The only option i've been told by @Asodimazze is to jump in.

The problem is you gotta either cross-up or be really close with that jump since after d'vorahs whiffed d3 the recovery is so low she can still go for a S1 as an AA.

There's just no need to talk about projectile game - it's nonexistant.

The only option is to get her in the corner and pump out the maximum amount of pressure and damage that is possible. It's still possible for a-list to break her armor.

Overall - better to pick SD / other character.
Yep, spot on. If the Dvorah d3 was whiff punishable, the MU would be fine. But like you said, it isn't. I tried playing SD for the Dvorah/GM sub MU, but its no where near as fun as A - List. Guess jumping is the best option then, even though it's still an unfavorable one.
 

Saltea Mike

ROG Mike
Premium Supporter
Yep, spot on. If the Dvorah d3 was whiff punishable, the MU would be fine. But like you said, it isn't. I tried playing SD for the Dvorah/GM sub MU, but its no where near as fun as A - List. Guess jumping is the best option then, even though it's still an unfavorable one.
Mortal Kombat X =/= fun :DOGE
 

llabslb

R1D1_998
Wait for her to killer herself lol.

What annoys me is that I can't whiff punish most of her normals. If her pokes had a hurt box I would be fine. I have two characters that do pretty decent against her anyways, which I recommend all of you to try out.

Commando Kano, his B1 is a 9f mid with a disjointed hitbox and B13 is only -2. Great in the match up I find. Also I find dragons fire kang to do pretty decent but I'm more comfortable with kano. What these two have in common is the great space control, which is why I think they do so well so I can definitely see SD doing better in the MU.
 
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Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
D'vorah's D3 can be whiff punished by Johnny. It's so hard to do because unlike most things in MK, you can't just whiff punish on reaction. It's more of a semi-reaction lol. You have to know it's coming and then F3 when the oviposter is still sticking out. It's tricky but if they're using it a lot then you can get a read on it and whiff punish it.
 

Saltea Mike

ROG Mike
Premium Supporter
D'vorah's D3 can be whiff punished by Johnny. It's so hard to do because unlike most things in MK, you can't just whiff punish on reaction. It's more of a semi-reaction lol. You have to know it's coming and then F3 when the oviposter is still sticking out. It's tricky but if they're using it a lot then you can get a read on it and whiff punish it.
Unless you're sticking the possible closest to her - you can. If you're at least a little bit away from her - she manages to get out another d3 before cage's f3 hits.

I've tested it. I see no other scenario than being at a max d3 distance and trying to whiff/block punish it.
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
Unless you're sticking the possible closest to her - you can. If you're at least a little bit away from her - she manages to get out another d3 before cage's f3 hits.

I've tested it. I see no other scenario than being at a max d3 distance and trying to whiff/block punish it.
You're not the only one who has tested it lol.

Yeah you need to be just outside the range of it, you can't just whiff punish it from anywhere. It's really hard to do but if you think about it and just keep your spacing then it's definitely doable.

If you're in range of your F3 then you're just leaving it too late. She shouldn't be able to whiff D3 then throw out another D3 without being stuffed.
 

Saltea Mike

ROG Mike
Premium Supporter
It's fun as hell to see Johnny players complain about a long range poke that low profiles everything or D'vorah players hate being pressured :DOGE
What type of information does your comment provide us with?

Please keep the "cage players hurr durr" out of CAGE forum. OR at least make a point (or try to).

You're not the only one who has tested it lol.

Yeah you need to be just outside the range of it, you can't just whiff punish it from anywhere. It's really hard to do but if you think about it and just keep your spacing then it's definitely doable.

If you're in range of your F3 then you're just leaving it too late. She shouldn't be able to whiff D3 then throw out another D3 without being stuffed.
My point exactly. Didn't mean for my comment to sound like I was the only one testing it, lol.
 

Tweedy

Noob
Lul, people still think A-list is godmode.
Are you saying that I think that A List is godmode?

Besides Takeda, I don't have more XP versus another character. I don't even have Johnny in the top tier, I just don't see how he loses to D'vorah. You literally couldn't be more off with that assumption, if i'm comprehending your post correctly.
 

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
Are you saying that I think that A List is godmode?

Besides Takeda, I don't have more XP versus another character. I don't even have Johnny in the top tier, I just don't see how he loses to D'vorah. You literally couldn't be more off with that assumption, if i'm comprehending your post correctly.
Look what Mike wrote:
The only option i've been told by Asodimazze is to jump in.
I was like ".....seriously?"