Espio
Kokomo
Hey there folks. I've been mostly quiet trying to just play, learn and develop my game as a Goro player. There are a lot of things I could be doing better with Goro and a lot of things I need to do as i strive to improve as a player. This is not a salty thread or one about unproductive complaints, but one that seeks to have a dialogue about Goro as a character and although I only play Tigrar Fury, my concerns apply to Goro as a whole.
WARNING: This is a long post.
Goro is a character that I feel like I'd classify as a footsies/rushdown/oki/grappler hybrid.
Goro has quite a few good traits going for him in his current state: a safe, two hit, fast advancing armored launching special that leads to decent damage and really good corner carry known as punchwalk. Both versions ex and regular are safe on block at minus five (ak.a. safe) and do good chip damage on block.
Forward 3 is a 16 frame long ranged, safe advancing normal that leads to over 30%. This normal is great for whiff punishing and imposing your will at relatively far out ranges.
Back 1,2,1, is a fast mid hitting string that is plus two on block and allows for pressure shenanigans.
Down 1, down 3, and down 4 are a great combination of low pokes that are fast and reasonably safe on block.
Forward 4 is an advancing overhead that is neutral on block and combos in the corner.
Command grab is a very fast special that can punish many things on block and is great for tick throws off of low pokes and back 3.
He has a thirteen frame low starter that can be cancelled into punchwalk as well.
The character is incredibly safe and has plus frames on quite a few of his strings that are good to use in setting up throw mix ups, punchwalk cancels and so forth.
What I wanted to start by highlighting is that at least in my view, the reason why he has problems has nothing to do with him being slow because he has fast mids, a fast low, good low pokes, super quick command grab, fast, safe armored launchers etc.
In my view Goro's design is very much out of whack. He's supposed to be a strong oki/pressure/rushdown grappler yet most of his specials do the opposite of what he's supposed to do. After Goro telestomps someone, even on hit he walks backwards off of them, giving them space to breath.
The risk/reward for telestomp is pretty meh in general, you get 10% and give the opponent breathing room afterwards. The start up is pretty slow so you're not really counterzoning with it unless you make a hard read and because it's so telegraphed, some characters can still avoid it after whiffing a projectile. This is not even getting into the fact that it's ridiculously negative on whiff to the point that many characters can make it whiff than run up and full combo punish you for using this move.
Command grab, he throws the opponent far away (yes I know it got buffed, but bear with me). Punchwalk knocks people far away as well. The point is, Goro is almost hurting himself when he scores a hit and that should not be the case for him or any other character.
Kitana has special enders that send the opponent away, but it makes sense for her character design since she's more focused on zoning and keeping the opponent at a distance.
Now, this might not be as big of a deal if Goro had proper mobility. Why is a character that is geared towards pokes, oki, pressure etc have such a slow forward walk speed? Why is his run so slow and clunky?
This game puts emphasis on the run mechanic and movement, mobility is the king of this game and when you realize that Goro's walk and run speeds in concert with his specials that push the opponent away work to hurt him immensely.
Goro's damage, frame traps and etc are fair, honest and not over the top, certainly not enough to justify bad movement and attacks that in general function against the best interests of his character design.
Goro's one meterless launcher into damage has an armorable gap and whiffs often, meaning he has to invest more meter for damage than someone else might have to because of the need for meter to get consistent damage. This is a problem because meter is so important and the string is not functioning properly. If Goro didn't have to use meter to get bigger damage, that would also be huge and it would only require a simple adjustment, nothing over the top, too good or too strong, just fixing what he currently has in his toolkit.
Lastly and this is an issue that plagues a lot of the cast, but anti-air. If Goro could blow people up hard for jumping and force his opponent to actually fight him on the ground, that would be a huge boon for him. It's ironic to think that weakening the effectiveness of jumping at Goro would lead to him jumping up the tier list. Goro can do work on the ground, he just needs to be able to make them scared to go airborne.
Goro is a unique, fun character that doesn't play like many others on the roster. I'm hopeful that some of the lesser used characters that have unique playstyles, not just Goro get the love they need. Goro is very close to being a serviceable mid tier, he just needs logical things that make sense to the character. Diversity is the spice of life and this also holds true for fighting games as well.
I've been using him at locals and have every intention of using him at upcoming majors regardless, but it is my hope that the flaws and strengths of this character are looked at candidly and honestly. Every character should have weaknesses, but their weaknesses should be justifiable and make sense for the character.
He has good tools, he just needs for all of his tools to work in concert to create a cohesive, sensible character as a whole and to be treated fairly, his good tools are not so overbearing that he should not have good mobility or have his specials work against him.
Stronger anti-air encourages players with better spacing, fundamentals and reads to shine and I think with that in mind, everyone wins.
Thanks for taking the time to read this for those who did.
WARNING: This is a long post.
Goro is a character that I feel like I'd classify as a footsies/rushdown/oki/grappler hybrid.
Goro has quite a few good traits going for him in his current state: a safe, two hit, fast advancing armored launching special that leads to decent damage and really good corner carry known as punchwalk. Both versions ex and regular are safe on block at minus five (ak.a. safe) and do good chip damage on block.
Forward 3 is a 16 frame long ranged, safe advancing normal that leads to over 30%. This normal is great for whiff punishing and imposing your will at relatively far out ranges.
Back 1,2,1, is a fast mid hitting string that is plus two on block and allows for pressure shenanigans.
Down 1, down 3, and down 4 are a great combination of low pokes that are fast and reasonably safe on block.
Forward 4 is an advancing overhead that is neutral on block and combos in the corner.
Command grab is a very fast special that can punish many things on block and is great for tick throws off of low pokes and back 3.
He has a thirteen frame low starter that can be cancelled into punchwalk as well.
The character is incredibly safe and has plus frames on quite a few of his strings that are good to use in setting up throw mix ups, punchwalk cancels and so forth.
What I wanted to start by highlighting is that at least in my view, the reason why he has problems has nothing to do with him being slow because he has fast mids, a fast low, good low pokes, super quick command grab, fast, safe armored launchers etc.
In my view Goro's design is very much out of whack. He's supposed to be a strong oki/pressure/rushdown grappler yet most of his specials do the opposite of what he's supposed to do. After Goro telestomps someone, even on hit he walks backwards off of them, giving them space to breath.
The risk/reward for telestomp is pretty meh in general, you get 10% and give the opponent breathing room afterwards. The start up is pretty slow so you're not really counterzoning with it unless you make a hard read and because it's so telegraphed, some characters can still avoid it after whiffing a projectile. This is not even getting into the fact that it's ridiculously negative on whiff to the point that many characters can make it whiff than run up and full combo punish you for using this move.
Command grab, he throws the opponent far away (yes I know it got buffed, but bear with me). Punchwalk knocks people far away as well. The point is, Goro is almost hurting himself when he scores a hit and that should not be the case for him or any other character.
Kitana has special enders that send the opponent away, but it makes sense for her character design since she's more focused on zoning and keeping the opponent at a distance.
Now, this might not be as big of a deal if Goro had proper mobility. Why is a character that is geared towards pokes, oki, pressure etc have such a slow forward walk speed? Why is his run so slow and clunky?
This game puts emphasis on the run mechanic and movement, mobility is the king of this game and when you realize that Goro's walk and run speeds in concert with his specials that push the opponent away work to hurt him immensely.
Goro's damage, frame traps and etc are fair, honest and not over the top, certainly not enough to justify bad movement and attacks that in general function against the best interests of his character design.
Goro's one meterless launcher into damage has an armorable gap and whiffs often, meaning he has to invest more meter for damage than someone else might have to because of the need for meter to get consistent damage. This is a problem because meter is so important and the string is not functioning properly. If Goro didn't have to use meter to get bigger damage, that would also be huge and it would only require a simple adjustment, nothing over the top, too good or too strong, just fixing what he currently has in his toolkit.
Lastly and this is an issue that plagues a lot of the cast, but anti-air. If Goro could blow people up hard for jumping and force his opponent to actually fight him on the ground, that would be a huge boon for him. It's ironic to think that weakening the effectiveness of jumping at Goro would lead to him jumping up the tier list. Goro can do work on the ground, he just needs to be able to make them scared to go airborne.
Goro is a unique, fun character that doesn't play like many others on the roster. I'm hopeful that some of the lesser used characters that have unique playstyles, not just Goro get the love they need. Goro is very close to being a serviceable mid tier, he just needs logical things that make sense to the character. Diversity is the spice of life and this also holds true for fighting games as well.
I've been using him at locals and have every intention of using him at upcoming majors regardless, but it is my hope that the flaws and strengths of this character are looked at candidly and honestly. Every character should have weaknesses, but their weaknesses should be justifiable and make sense for the character.
He has good tools, he just needs for all of his tools to work in concert to create a cohesive, sensible character as a whole and to be treated fairly, his good tools are not so overbearing that he should not have good mobility or have his specials work against him.
Stronger anti-air encourages players with better spacing, fundamentals and reads to shine and I think with that in mind, everyone wins.
Thanks for taking the time to read this for those who did.
.
. Good thread.
