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2019 UMK3 Tier List Discussion

tank u-gin

tank u-gin

Noob
ded said:
How come Kano is so low and Sheeva so high?
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Thanks for response. Well, may be you”re right about kano. We don’t have a lot of strong kano players. May be he must be higher. But about sheeva, i think she at her correct place. We have a lot of sheeva players, and she can be very powerful. In my opinion :)
 
nwo

nwo

Kombatant
AREZ God of War said:
This is why I have been saying for over a decade that a vast majority of lag is one-sided and screws the other person despite all the people trying to rationalize "oh lag is mutual, it's affecting both of us"...

Chances are @nwo just usually ends up getting the shit end of the stick
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You're right, lag is not always mutual and ping is only one layer of the online problems. There's different types of lag, especially on MAME because we're all on different hardware.

I need to research this more because I have a lot of theories, but there's GPU lag (if the game drops below 55fps) and CPU lag (if the emulation speed drops below 100%). We have something called "/lagstat" on Kailllera that shows which players have lagspikes, but I don't think it detects GPU lag, and it might not even detect a drop in the emulation speed. It needs to be tested, because the next Mame version might have an "advanced lag detection" feature to warn the other players if someone is lagging (and which player).

You might be thinking, who the hell can't run this game full speed in 2019? My theory is that some people who are on older PC's or even newer non-gaming PC's/Laptops might have their desktop resolution set too high and the game is dropping below 55fps (fraps shows 55fps for umk3).

AREZ God of War said:
That's why I asked you to voice your opinions on what aspects of the characters moved in placement specifically affect them being better or worse online, for example i mentioned Lao's teleport, another good example is not being able to block after Nightwolf's Axe-ender and the next rushdown HK-starter, Ermac losing juggle freedom, height of IA-projectiles, etc
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I didn't really want to get into it because everyones online experience might vary, but in general online is slower paced, there's dropped inputs, and the speed of the game can change mid-match (which can mess up your input timing, especially on higher execution combos/infinities).

This is some of my reasoning for some of the changes (mostly top tier), I can talk about it all day, but I don't want to...

For h.Smoke and Ermac, they have a simple pop-up (LK, LP) which can set up 50%+ damage combo's, they stay the same or move up. Nightwolf's shoulder charge is fast and the input is simple (F,F,LK) and he can slip it in during his rush down and if it lands it will keep him on offense. Kitana's instant air fan is a fast and big projectile that's harder to avoid in delay, she runs in right behind it and even if you block it she gets free offense. Robot Smoke has a very quick spear, and it gets nastier in more delay. Kabal's spin is still fast and he can spam instant air fireballs even in delay. Mileena's ground roll is fast online, and even if its blocked its much harder to punish with an infinite (for Kung Lao, and probably Reptile).

As far as Lao's teleport, I think teleporting to auto combo is pretty cheap online (it works better online), but if you do it too often the opponent might see a pattern and punish it frequently. Offline it will still land, but my fighting style is completely different (there's a lot more offensive pressure when the game is running full speed) and I teleport a lot less making it less predictable. If the opponent is punishing it too often I might stop completely, but there is such things as a safe teleport (to auto combo), vs Jax double missiles, Stryker grenades, Sindel's (out of range) scream, if Kabal is spamming his fireballs, Kitana's (out of range) fan lift you can teleport and walk up behind her and spin. A lot of times you teleport just to not get cornered, like vs Kitana if she throws a fan and starts running in, you might teleport to not get cornered.
 
ded

ded

Elder God
My personal two cents when it comes to Lao:
Worst thing online, for me, is the so called button loss. I am playing the game with 2-5MS and while seemingly the game runs fine, you will notice button loss in a "to-the-frame-reaction" scenarios. This is critical for Lao's various strats:
  1. Low Div Kicks
  2. Interrupt jab pressure with counter jab/throw
  3. Accidentally thrown hats
  4. Accidental teleports
  5. Delayed/fucked up auto combo after Teleports JPs/HKs
  6. Missed otg JPs for counting glitch jabs, stand up pressure, etc.
  7. Missed Spins (when opponent tries to kick combo before you get up for example)
  8. And of course, missed infinites
What @nwo said actually is somehow true, as I've experienced this "button loss" offline as well. Mostly, when i play against the CPU and someone messages me on Skype for example. HRZ, a friend of mine, has probably the most powerful PC i know, and he experience the same in skype and/or when receives messages in Steam as well.
 
Reactions: nwo
tank u-gin

tank u-gin

Noob
ded said:
Out of curiosity with how much MS guys you are playing?
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I play competitive UMK3 since 2010
At offline i was playing UMK3 in USA in 2013 and 2014 against: Reo, Crazy Dominican, NoDoubt, Shock, Summoning, Chris G, Mike Metroid, Tom Brady, phil 9.95 and others
In Moscow at Offline i was playing a lot against Mafioso, Friesen, Snowboy, Natcu and other CIS (Commonwealth of Independent States ) top-players
And at online with 0-2 ms ping against same Russian guys, but much more. Every week we play together in years
Here you can see the skill of Mafioso and Friesen. At offline Grand Final, May 2019 (first to 7)
timecode: 10:57:34
 
tank u-gin

tank u-gin

Noob
ded said:
That's great you keep UMK3 alive, guys :) Especially offline. However, it's still strange for me Sheeva is so high...
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well, i played against few very good sheeva players, I can’t say what's special about her, but she can be very powerfull sometime. She have long limbs, pretty good jabs, nice throw move, from time to time she can use her unblocable moves, nice fireball, and ok regular combo. She's definitely better than D-tier. She can float between C and B, but definitely better than D
 
tank u-gin

tank u-gin

Noob
ded said:
That's great you keep UMK3 alive, guys :) Especially offline. However, it's still strange for me Sheeva is so high...
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Every year In May, we hold the Moscow offline tournament. Many hardcore players from Russia and the CIS countries from many cities. Crazy skill level. It is very very difficult to take top places. This year (May 2019) we even had one player from Israel. So if you can, join our tournament. I promise that this is one of the highest levels of performance. Just ask me how. I'll help you guys to visit Russia Moscow.
 
tank u-gin

tank u-gin

Noob
ded said:
Or maybe you can come to Bulgaria instead? ;)
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Do you have any big tournaments in Bulgaria? - Why not?! Or is it about home gatherings? :) We have a very big tournament. With a great electric skill level and good prizes :)
I have been to many countries, and Bulgaria has always been our friend ;) So why not if it is a real big tourney
 
ded

ded

Elder God
I don't see myself traveling to another country, just for UMK3 tournament, but in case it's not an issue for you, you are always welcomed here. I've already had such home gatherings with Sepy, AC1984, ErrorMakro and HRZ. No one was disappointed. ;)
 
tank u-gin

tank u-gin

Noob
ded said:
I don't see myself traveling to another country, just for UMK3 tournament, but in case it's not an issue for you, you are always welcomed here. I've already had such home gatherings with Sepy, AC1984, ErrorMakro and HRZ. No one was disappointed. ;)
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Nice! Can we watch a video of these matches? Or is it as usually a big secret? :) But if without jokes, then if you will have any tournaments, let us know. My regards
 
ded

ded

Elder God
I don't get the big secret joke, but the matches between AC1984 and HRZ are online since 2010 (when you started playing competitively, I guess) :)
A quick search on youtube:
 
Reactions: Mgo
tank u-gin

tank u-gin

Noob
ded said:
I don't get the big secret joke, but the matches between AC1984 and HRZ are online since 2010 (when you started playing competitively, I guess) :)
A quick search on youtube:
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Nice! We will definitely watch this match. But I asked about the video, where YOU play the full match against some of the strong players. Not edited video. But Full Fight. I'm not asking you about other players. But about your fights. First to 7 wins for example, or first to 5, first to 10 wins, whatever. Not a freeplay. You have some? Not edited video? We all see only selected and edited ded's fights. I heard you're always hide all the matches where you lost. Is this true? There are legends about this, did you know?:)
 
ded

ded

Elder God
Sure, I've dealt with so much shit talk about this topic, so i stopped uploading vs matches at all. But just for your guilty pleasure, here is something for you ;)
 
tank u-gin

tank u-gin

Noob
ded said:
Sure, I've dealt with so much shit talk about this topic, so i stopped uploading vs matches at all. But just for your guilty pleasure, here is something for you ;)
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To make everything clear. The whole world respects you. For your contribution to UMK3. And of course me too. But no one has seen a single match of yours. Not a fight, but a full match. This link that you shared, I saw 10 years ago. What new can we see there? You said that the AC 1984 player was in Bulgaria and played against you and did not disappointed . Do you have a full match video of you vs AC1984? Did you play against him at all? Where can we watch the full match and the result? :)
 
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ded

ded

Elder God
We? I still play online with some friends from time to time, but If you are so many, i can probably record all the losses I'd got and make another compilation of it :)

The result does not matter, and yes, I've played against @AC1984

I believe the topic is about Tier List, not how I make compilation videos of my wins only :)
 
tank u-gin

tank u-gin

Noob
ded said:
We? I still play online with some friends from time to time, but If you are so many, i can probably record all the losses I'd got and make another compilation of it :)

The result does not matter, and yes, I've played against @AC1984

I believe the topic is about Tier List, not how I make compilation videos of my wins only :)
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WE = I mean I and our Russian & CIS community. I am sorry about the offtopic, and we do not ask about the video of your defeats. We ask about your full matches. For example, against AC1984, do you have this? Where can we watch it? Not in words, but in the video?
 
portent

portent

Apprentice
Apparently, UMK3 has been, or is currently in the process of being properly added to Final Burn Neo, the follow up to the now defunct Final Burn Alpha. That said, it should likely see a release using a GGPO/rollback netcode release soon enough, which will finally get UMK3 into this century in terms of online play.
 
KOHR

KOHR

Noob
portent said:
Apparently, UMK3 has been, or is currently in the process of being properly added to Final Burn Neo, the follow up to the now defunct Final Burn Alpha. That said, it should likely see a release using a GGPO/rollback netcode release soon enough, which will finally get UMK3 into this century in terms of online play.
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It's already playable via ggpo for a while http://www.redggpo.com/
But emulation core is way worse than MAME. Last time i've played it it had wrong game speed like 60 frames per seconds.
 
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