General/Other - Kotal Kahn 2 Things I wish Kotal Had

[Kotal_Wannabe]

Pls NRS, Just give me a 114 that doesn't whiff on crouch block and some sort of anti-zoning capability, and i'll never complain again, and if that's too much just pls fix 114

 

[Genei Jin]

two things i wish kotal had:

safer strings and faster projectiles (yes, sunlight is a projectile)

 

[KIllaByte]

EX self harm cut where he puts his own health bar on a ten secoud countdown, but for a triple damage buff.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

To be able to EX totems which have a second layer on top, that give armor

 

[gam224]

I honestly think kotal may be the worst character in the game. I don't play him much but it feels as if he has very few if any advantaged match ups and alot of disadvantaged match ups.

 

[QUAN-FUSION]

Let his parry absorb/reflect projectiles.

 

[TodaysAgenda]

Kotal is definitely not the worst character in the game @gam224 but he is certainly at a disadvantage against zoning characters. I feel Kotal is more of a character who operates on punishing the mistakes of opponents.

I agree @Genei Jin if Kotal got a buff which made his strings safer and decreased both the start up frames and recovery frames of sunlight it would be amazing. If B1F2 was safe I'd be sooooooooooo happy!

 

[gam224]

Kotal is definitely not the worst character in the game @gam224 but he is certainly at a disadvantage against zoning characters. I feel Kotal is more of a character who operates on punishing the mistakes of opponents.

I agree @Genei Jin if Kotal got a buff which made his strings safer and decreased both the start up frames and recovery frames of sunlight it would be amazing. If B1F2 was safe I'd be sooooooooooo happy!

Who is the worst? The bottom three have gotta be like him, goro, and takeda.

 

[TodaysAgenda]

Who is the worst? The bottom three have gotta be like him, goro, and takeda.

There is no way I'd put Kotal at bottom 3. Kotal players have placed top 8 using him which I honestly would find hard to believe if he was that low on the tier list. Watch game play of Alucard and Madzin and you'll see Kotal is a solid character.

 

[gam224]

There is no way I'd put Kotal at bottom 3. Kotal players have placed top 8 using him which I honestly would find hard to believe if he was that low on the tier list. Watch game play of Alucard and Madzin and you'll see Kotal is a solid character.

Personally I just have some difficulty in finding any good match ups with this character. I can play the entire roster and i just don't really get this character, he feels really out of place in this game so far. He is a footsies/spacing character with good mix ups in sun and war god and some absurd damage in blood god but i still don't see any match up where i would prefer him over another character.

 

[TodaysAgenda]

I agree with you on those points. There's no match ups where I instantly think "Oh a good counter pick her would be Kotal". Unfortunately MKX seems to revolve around having either a strong 50/50 mix up game or insane pressure/block strings; things which Kotal has none of. Personally I enjoy Kotal because he's an honest character and is helping me to develop solid neutral and footsies which I can transition to a top tier character later @gam224

 

[gam224]

I agree with you on those points. There's no match ups where I instantly think "Oh a good counter pick her would be Kotal". Unfortunately MKX seems to revolve around having either a strong 50/50 mix up game or insane pressure/block strings; things which Kotal has none of. Personally I enjoy Kotal because he's an honest character and is helping me to develop solid neutral and footsies which I can transition to a top tier character later @gam224

Honest characters don't do well in this game. Pick the dirties character you can think of XD

 

[TodaysAgenda]

Honest characters don't do well in this game. Pick the dirties character you can think of XD

Tell me about it lol. Kind of depressing that honest characters aren't very viable but that's NRS for you

 

[gam224]

Tell me about it lol. Kind of depressing that honest characters aren't very viable but that's NRS for you

Yea it just feels like this game isn't really one that rewards solid play much. there are still footsies, anti airs, and other fundamentals but the ones that are good are the ones that cheat the system. Shinnok can loop ex hell sparks for days which is kinda game breaking seeing that in most nrs games it's usually "you have attacked now it's the other players turn" sort or deal.

 

[LeeVanDam]

Pls NRS, Just give me a 114 that doesn't whiff on crouch block and some sort of anti-zoning capability, and i'll never complain again, and if that's too much just pls fix 114

Precious picture!

You can use b+1,2,2 > EX Sunstone to give you enough + frames to where their animation won't neutral duck 1,1,4 in time Or, just do 1,1,4 exclusively off jump ins. If they d+2 you once, then they're jump in b+1,2,2 bait because it is the same start up speed and jump in 1 or 2 is +2 on block. As far as anti zoning? Not much for you there besides sunlight for slow projectiles and RUN when you get a knock down off EX Sunstone versus anyone The zoning part is a patient patient game.

Oh, and for the comment requesting sunlight to be faster... you can safely use Sunlight by cancelling from 1,1,4 (on ground or in juggle), or b+1,2 in a juggle. Both options allow you to safely start healing. Also in corner juggles, if you end with 1,1,4 > sunlight/EX sunlight on yourself then crouch block they have to spend all of their time in the sunlight trying to get you out of the sunlight so they can escape. All you have to do is break throws and stand up for overheads. (If they throw you, they still take sunlight damage while THEIR throw animation is happening). When they freeze because you aren't doing anything, do a normal throw into the corner for an extra 9% along with tons of healing or start your blockstring. I'll have a video up about more sunlight tactics soon, but some of my other stuff on youtube shows me working with sunlight in the corner. Example below:

If the time stamp doesn't work, start at 1:34:35.

 

[TodaysAgenda]

Yea it just feels like this game isn't really one that rewards solid play much. there are still footsies, anti airs, and other fundamentals but the ones that are good are the ones that cheat the system. Shinnok can loop ex hell sparks for days which is kinda game breaking seeing that in most nrs games it's usually "you have attacked now it's the other players turn" sort or deal.

My thoughts exactly. NRS games favor offense so heavily but I love MK so I can't not play it haha

 

[gam224]

My thoughts exactly. NRS games favor offense so heavily but I love MK so I can't not play it haha

same but i feel that if nrs is going to do a second dlc pack (9/10 chance they are) they should do what KI did. They should change some system mechanics like making block breakers one bar of meter and both bars of stamina. This would create an interesting mind game between " do i go for the armored reversal and knock down or do i use up a bar to get them off me but can't go too offensive because of lack of stamina" i would also like to see anti airs buffed across the board, even with good anti air characters like kitana you really have to make a read in the neutral rather than a reaction in the neutral which makes the footsies less prevelant.

 

[TodaysAgenda]

same but i feel that if nrs is going to do a second dlc pack (9/10 chance they are) they should do what KI did. They should change some system mechanics like making block breakers one bar of meter and both bars of stamina. This would create an interesting mind game between " do i go for the armored reversal and knock down or do i use up a bar to get them off me but can't go too offensive because of lack of stamina" i would also like to see anti airs buffed across the board, even with good anti air characters like kitana you really have to make a read in the neutral rather than a reaction in the neutral which makes the footsies less prevelant.

Yea I've found that anti airing jump ins seems more based upon reads rather than reaction. Even with Kotal who has a 7 frame D2 I have a hard time anti airing.
It would be interesting if NRS changed game play mechanics but honestly I feel they are going to be lazy and just buff/nerf characters rather than make changes to the meta.

 

[gam224]

Yea I've found that anti airing jump ins seems more based upon reads rather than reaction. Even with Kotal who has a 7 frame D2 I have a hard time anti airing.
It would be interesting if NRS changed game play mechanics but honestly I feel they are going to be lazy and just buff/nerf characters rather than make changes to the meta.

It's really a tossup right now, with injustice towards the end they made it so that you had to use two bars to get armour on interactables which was a big gameplay change and if they are going to do something big now is the time. I have a feeling this next patch is goin to be a big one. I am not sure about anyone else but i was rather annoyed they put interactables in mkx, they feel out of place and just aren't as exciting as the ones in injustice. I am happy you can actually block them this time around but they took away one of the things that made injustice really unique, i am starting to miss that game already.

 

[DoctorSexual]

No offense but you guys saying Kotal is the worst just need to level your game up. Do you realize that Kotal has top 3 JI1 in a game where anti airs are almost nonexistant? Do you realize Kotal literally has one of the best pokes in the game? In a game where pokes are incredibly important. Do you realize Kotal has one of the BEST and most damaging basic grabs in the game? Do you realize Kotal has one of the most useful low profiling moves in the game? Do you realize that in War Kotal has one of the single best moves in the game that guarantees 30% undroppable damage for free with armor? Do you realize he has one of the best run walk and backdash speeds in the game?

These are just the basics. There are plenty more examples of tools that he has which keep him safely out of the bottom and anyone who says hes bottom 3 either has never legitimately used him or just doesnt understand fighting games at the most basic level.

 

[NHDR]

I hope for buffs on his sun ray and blood sacrifice specials. Rarely used, very situational.

 

[gam224]

No offense but you guys saying Kotal is the worst just need to level your game up. Do you realize that Kotal has top 3 JI1 in a game where anti airs are almost nonexistant? Do you realize Kotal literally has one of the best pokes in the game? In a game where pokes are incredibly important. Do you realize Kotal has one of the BEST and most damaging basic grabs in the game? Do you realize Kotal has one of the most useful low profiling moves in the game? Do you realize that in War Kotal has one of the single best moves in the game that guarantees 30% undroppable damage for free with armor? Do you realize he has one of the best run walk and backdash speeds in the game?

These are just the basics. There are plenty more examples of tools that he has which keep him safely out of the bottom and anyone who says hes bottom 3 either has never legitimately used him or just doesnt understand fighting games at the most basic level.

Well that's going a bit far... i see him as bottom three because he just doesn't seem to have a ton of good match ups. On the other hand tier lists are constantly changing and while every body will pretty much agree BS shinnok and Tempest KL are top tier alot of it is up for debate. I just don't think he does things that other member of the cast can't do just as well if not better.

 

[gam224]

No offense but you guys saying Kotal is the worst just need to level your game up. Do you realize that Kotal has top 3 JI1 in a game where anti airs are almost nonexistant? Do you realize Kotal literally has one of the best pokes in the game? In a game where pokes are incredibly important. Do you realize Kotal has one of the BEST and most damaging basic grabs in the game? Do you realize Kotal has one of the most useful low profiling moves in the game? Do you realize that in War Kotal has one of the single best moves in the game that guarantees 30% undroppable damage for free with armor? Do you realize he has one of the best run walk and backdash speeds in the game?

These are just the basics. There are plenty more examples of tools that he has which keep him safely out of the bottom and anyone who says hes bottom 3 either has never legitimately used him or just doesnt understand fighting games at the most basic level.

I'm not saying he is unplayable.

 

[LeeVanDam]

No offense but you guys saying Kotal is the worst just need to level your game up. Do you realize that Kotal has top 3 JI1 in a game where anti airs are almost nonexistant? Do you realize Kotal literally has one of the best pokes in the game? In a game where pokes are incredibly important. Do you realize Kotal has one of the BEST and most damaging basic grabs in the game? Do you realize Kotal has one of the most useful low profiling moves in the game? Do you realize that in War Kotal has one of the single best moves in the game that guarantees 30% undroppable damage for free with armor? Do you realize he has one of the best run walk and backdash speeds in the game?

These are just the basics. There are plenty more examples of tools that he has which keep him safely out of the bottom and anyone who says hes bottom 3 either has never legitimately used him or just doesnt understand fighting games at the most basic level.

This is the truth. One thing you always have to remember is that the more honest a character is, the more you will grow as your knowledge of the game's mechanics grow. Stuff like trip guard, backdashing, and low profiling are especially important to Kotal Kahn because he is one of the most damaging punishers in the game, as long as you can see what the mistake is.

i.e. someone performs a jumping attack, so you backdash to cause the attack to whiff and catch them with b+1,2,2 into whatever via trip guard

Kotal Kahn is going to be one of the characters that takes the longest time to see consistent results from, because most of it will revolve around how well you know the character you're fighting against. There's nothing wrong with that though, because as more fundamentals are broken down you'll become exponentially more powerful with him. Please be sure you've used the tools in every possible situation you can think of before writing it off, because even if it only has one specific purpose... if that purpose helps you win then it is still a useful tool.

 

[gam224]

This is the truth. One thing you always have to remember is that the more honest a character is, the more you will grow as your knowledge of the game's mechanics grow. Stuff like trip guard, backdashing, and low profiling are especially important to Kotal Kahn because he is one of the most damaging punishers in the game, as long as you can see what the mistake is.

i.e. someone performs a jumping attack, so you backdash to cause the attack to whiff and catch them with b+1,2,2 into whatever via trip guard

Kotal Kahn is going to be one of the characters that takes the longest time to see consistent results from, because most of it will revolve around how well you know the character you're fighting against. There's nothing wrong with that though, because as more fundamentals are broken down you'll become exponentially more powerful with him. Please be sure you've used the tools in every possible situation you can think of before writing it off, because even if it only has one specific purpose... if that purpose helps you win then it is still a useful tool.

I agree with this but I still don't think he is a "good" character yet. I think everybody should play characters like Kotal khan, quan, and kitana to help improve their fundamentals but with Kotal you need to have other characters in your arsenal.