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Discussion Overbuffed characters in mkxl final patch

The poor me just picks Ninjutsu. It has less stress dealing with non hurt box bullshit (like Bartitsu LOL), and I am able to actually shut down my brain about combos and Just need to concentrate on set ups.. That's Why I decided to use Scorpion instead of Sub Zero long time ago. Ninjutsu even eliminates Tremor and other undesirable pest easier. LMAO.
 
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Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
The poor me just picks Ninjutsu. It has less stress dealing with non hurt box bullshit (like Bartitsu LOL), and I am able to actually shut down my brain about combos and Just need to concentrate on set ups.. That's Why I decided to use Scorpion instead of Sub Zero long time ago. Ninjutsu even eliminates Tremor and other undesirable pest easier. LMAO.
I think GM vs Bartitsu is even, you just can’t shotgun B2.
 
Nope!. Instead of thinking I abandoned Sub Zero. Why play footsies when You can just spam?.
I remembered a tournament... there was this awesome Bartitsu that made sweat my poor GM then I just went straight to Ninjutsu. Then the poor guy picked Tremor after. I won that so easy. LOL.
 
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ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
Hellfire Scorpion is actually his most busted variation, am not sure if it even have any losing matchups.
Forgot to mention it before. That variation is one of the most busted in this game. Flame aura is terminal cancer.

So many cancel characters were ridiculously good in mkx. Maybe it's time for nrs to rethink about that mechanic in the future...
 

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
Forgot to mention it before. That variation is one of the most busted in this game. Flame aura is terminal cancer.

So many cancel characters were ridiculously good in mkx. Maybe it's time for nrs to rethink about that mechanic in the future...
Cancel pressure is actually a good mechanic, Fun to play and to watch. so long as there are keep-away/stall/parry tools that counter it then it's fine and should stay. But when you combine cancel pressure with ez mid-screen 40% vortex, that's when you go from fun to plz-donate-for-my-chemo-therapy.
 

JGillette

My thirst for knowledge cannot be quenched
Honestly if you’re not playing Jax, Erron Black, Cage, Jason, Kotal, or Triborg you’re not at any extreme disadvantage.

If you’re playing Mileena, D’Vorah, Tremor, Ferra/Torr, Kenshi, Ermac, Takeda, or Sonya (those aren’t even all the characters he loses to), whatever happens in the corner is on you because you have every tool you need to beat Sub midscreen. Sorry.
And Dragon Naginata has very considerable advantage against him
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Hang on someone found subzero was too much thought. LOL.

@Dankster Morgan

I'm pretty sure jax and smoke got 7-3'd. By sub

What are you on about not bad matchups
I was saying in that post that if you weren’t playing a Jax type character then you were at an extreme disadvantage, maybe my wording was wrong.

No yeah he 7-3s every robot that’s not Sektor, Kotal, and probably Johnny Cage. Jax is borderline 8-2. He fucks up those characters bad, thing is though other than Smoke, all those characters are irrelevant in the last patch, Smokes the only realavant character he destroyed. Sure he beats several more characters but that’s more like a 6-4 advantage where it’s not extremely slanted.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
And Dragon Naginata has very considerable advantage against him
Those were just the characters I think he gets murdered by. I think Sub loses to
Sonya Demo and maybe SF
Kenshi Balanced/Possessed
Takeda Lasher/SR
Jacqui Full Auto
Tanya Dragon Naginata
Ermac (especially Mystic)
Ferra/Torr (non lackey)
D’Vorah
Tremor mostly Aftershock

Displacer Raiden and HQT Predator were arguably losing for Sub but I personally don’t think so. Some say he lost to Kitana (I don’t think so, I just think dragon was better at the game than the Subs he fought) and Mileena but I think after the changes to B12, Sub finally getting a 7 frame poke, Sub having good female corner combos now, getting F12 knockdowns midscreen, and her armor launcher being less of a threat, her few options in the corner, I think it was pretty close to even. Her considerable midscreen advantage was balanced out by her having few options in the corner
 
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xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Those were just the characters I think he gets murdered by. I think Sub loses to
Sonya Demo and maybe SF
Kenshi Balanced/Possessed
Takeda Lasher/SR
Jacqui Full Auto
Tanya Dragon Naginata
Ermac (especially Mystic)
Ferra/Torr (non lackey)
D’Vorah
Tremor mostly Aftershock

Displacer Raiden and HQT Predator were arguably losing for Sub but I personally don’t think so. Some say he lost to Kitana (I don’t think so, I just think dragon was better at the game than the Subs he fought) and Mileena but I think after the changes to B12, Sub finally getting a 7 frame poke, Sub having good female corner combos now, getting F12 knockdowns midscreen, and her armor launcher being less of a threat, her few options in the corner, I think it was pretty close to even. Her considerable midscreen advantage was balanced out by her having few options in the corner

I actually think Kitana beat sub at the last version of the game as well.


Before the patch, Kitana’s biggest problem in the match was the fact that she was dead in the corner. The patch changed that with her getting 2 hits of armor on almost everything lol, plus Assing (Air square wave) out was easier since it recovered much quicker. Not to mention her upclose game got better as well.

She can really lame him out while also beating him upclose.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I actually think Kitana beat sub at the last version of the game as well.


Before the patch, Kitana’s biggest problem in the match was the fact that she was dead in the corner. The patch changed that with her getting 2 hits of armor on almost everything lol, plus Assing (Air square wave) out was easier since it recovered much quicker. Not to mention her upclose game got better as well.

She can really lame him out while also beating him upclose.
Royal Storm maybeeeee, I do think once he got her cornered it wasn’t as simple as armoring out though, even before the 2 hit armor patch, there were characters where Sub had to respect their wakeups in the corner. If Sub ends a corner combo in F12(as always), re-clones, and respects Kitana’s wakeup he will either a) block and punish or b) she gets up normally and has a clone in front of her face, it kinda gets overblown imo how much the 2 hit armor thing hurt Sub. F12 off of an opponent who was being combed in the air (such as in the corner) gave SZ a lot of advantage to work with, it gave him all he needed to get a clone out, respect a wakeup, and still be safe at the same time.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Royal Storm maybeeeee, I do think once he got her cornered it wasn’t as simple as armoring out though, even before the 2 hit armor patch, there were characters where Sub had to respect their wakeups in the corner. If Sub ends a corner combo in F12(as always), re-clones, and respects Kitana’s wakeup he will either a) block and punish or b) she gets up normally and has a clone in front of her face, it kinda gets overblown imo how much the 2 hit armor thing hurt Sub. F12 off of an opponent who was being combed in the air (such as in the corner) gave SZ a lot of advantage to work with, it gave him all he needed to get a clone out, respect a wakeup, and still be safe at the same time.
Yea I was talking about RS. Definitely the variation to use against him after the patch.

It’s more than just waking up tho. Before the patch, air assing was out of the question because it didn’t travel far and it recovered horrendously. Now, it goes a good length and the ex version goes full screen, while recovering MUCH quicker. He can still punish but it’s alot harder than it was before.

Either way, the match definitely got better for her. It used to be one of her worsts
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Yea I was talking about RS. Definitely the variation to use against him after the patch.

It’s more than just waking up tho. Before the patch, air assing was out of the question because it didn’t travel far and it recovered horrendously. Now, it goes a good length and the ex version goes full screen, while recovering MUCH quicker. He can still punish but it’s alot harder than it was before.

Either way, the match definitely got better for her. It used to be one of her worsts
No doubt, he used to beat her up bad imo, I think it’s even but I’m open to her winning. Sub also lost the frost bomb armored launcher which pre patch didn’t let her jump or do float bullshit at all.

I personally still think it’s even because she did have ass to make her go across the screen, but he had slide which also had little recovery and low profiles and the corner was of course pretty fucked up.
 

Wigy

There it is...
I was saying in that post that if you weren’t playing a Jax type character then you were at an extreme disadvantage, maybe my wording was wrong.

No yeah he 7-3s every robot that’s not Sektor, Kotal, and probably Johnny Cage. Jax is borderline 8-2. He fucks up those characters bad, thing is though other than Smoke, all those characters are irrelevant in the last patch, Smokes the only realavant character he destroyed. Sure he beats several more characters but that’s more like a 6-4 advantage where it’s not extremely slanted.
In his matchups that aren't loosing he's flowchart as fuck and neuters the neutral game.

That's why he's cancer.

Also repeat after me 'if a character has a move that goes through clone that doesn't make it an automatic disadvantage'. I hate to be that on the offensive with a discussion but the sub community had a breakdown at the faint whiff of a ghost hurtbox.

Bartitsu was a 5-5 at best.

His d4 was horrendous on whiff. If you jumped it was an easy full combo. F1 is good but you still had to position yourself well in front of the clone also its a high and subs d4 had stupid range and low profiled and was really quick. It's not like mystic matchup where they can just machine gun bf2.

Bart's d2 was garbage so sub could ride his face like a jockey with his obnoxious jump ins.

Sub had counters for his counters and then was just a more complete character with better everything else.

Edit- just realized it wasn't you who said gm beat him but leaving my comment here for @neveradestroyer
 
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Forgot to mention it before. That variation is one of the most busted in this game. Flame aura is terminal cancer.

So many cancel characters were ridiculously good in mkx. Maybe it's time for nrs to rethink about that mechanic in the future...
Triborg can punish the flame aura on block with 114, 111 or F13 and that will make them second think on using the aura all the time.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Genuine question, everyone who knows me, knows I'm no genius at these games. I'm wondering, what made Pyromancer a high tier character? Whenever I play her I feel she has no compelling normals, her fireballs are easy af to avoid and she's punishable on everything she does.

She has no decent combo starter, her mid may be advancing but it's also not as great as some other advancing mids in the game and overall, I just need to understand her better because to me she feels weak against characters like Liu, Kitana, Cassie, Kano, Predator, etc.
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
Triborg can punish the flame aura on block with 114, 111 or F13 and that will make them second think on using the aura all the time.
It's a meterless special that gives him a combo on hit. It should be a clear punish for everybody, but instead not only it's super range dependent but also has eternal active frames, so good luck whiff punishing it.
 
It's a meterless special that gives him a combo on hit. It should be a clear punish for everybody, but instead not only it's super range dependent but also has eternal active frames, so good luck whiff punishing it.
Agree on the active frames, super annoying. Many HF will try to make their mix ups safe with their fireball cancels or cancelling into the aura. But when I successfully block their mix up and block the aura in close range then I can punish it with a 7-8 frame starter. Smarter HFs usually space themselves with D4+Flame Aura, I might not get hit by the aura but I cannot punish it, either. Or worse case scenario... get hit by the aura while trying to punish it. Like you said, whiff punishing it is a no-no.
 
Sniff!. Go back to complain about Grand Master instead!..... You monsters!. Leave Scorpion alone!. If I didn't mention his name He even would be ignored!. #BuffScorpion. I don't care if They had to nerf match-up dependant Grand Master to do it!. LOL.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
In his matchups that aren't loosing he's flowchart as fuck and neuters the neutral game.

That's why he's cancer.

Also repeat after me 'if a character has a move that goes through clone that doesn't make it an automatic disadvantage'. I hate to be that on the offensive with a discussion but the sub community had a breakdown at the faint whiff of a ghost hurtbox.

Bartitsu was a 5-5 at best.

His d4 was horrendous on whiff. If you jumped it was an easy full combo. F1 is good but you still had to position yourself well in front of the clone also its a high and subs d4 had stupid range and low profiled and was really quick. It's not like mystic matchup where they can just machine gun bf2.

Bart's d2 was garbage so sub could ride his face like a jockey with his obnoxious jump ins.

Sub had counters for his counters and then was just a more complete character with better everything else.

Edit- just realized it wasn't you who said gm beat him but leaving my comment here for @neveradestroyer
Glad you noticed it wasn’t me that said that, BRC definitely doesn’t beat Sub.

I tend to agree that a character doesn’t automatically beat Sub if a move goes through the clone, it’s more so WHAT move goes through it. Like Predator can put a D4 through it and it’s annoying and inconvenient but demo Sonya who’s grenades go through or and handful D’Vorah’s normals are more detrimental to his gameplan. You also gotta consider how they do if Sub gets the advantage whereas D’Vorah, Ermac, and Kenshi have several ways out, BRC and Predator have to eat it so I think it kinda evens them out.
 

John_NX

Your circumstances are dire!
Am I the only one who also thinks that a GOOD fera torr is also extremely good,annoying and very hard to punish?
 

Wigy

There it is...
Glad you noticed it wasn’t me that said that, BRC definitely doesn’t beat Sub.

I tend to agree that a character doesn’t automatically beat Sub if a move goes through the clone, it’s more so WHAT move goes through it. Like Predator can put a D4 through it and it’s annoying and inconvenient but demo Sonya who’s grenades go through or and handful D’Vorah’s normals are more detrimental to his gameplan. You also gotta consider how they do if Sub gets the advantage whereas D’Vorah, Ermac, and Kenshi have several ways out, BRC and Predator have to eat it so I think it kinda evens them out.
The crazy thing is. I think Bo Rai cho low key gives predator a run for his money which you wouldn't think at all.

I get what you're saying for those characters, but man I've seen the argument used for anyone with a ghost hurtbox by the sub community.

Mkx sub community were also one of the worst.