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Skarlet: Banned @ Evo? (All DLC officially banned for Evo 2011)

Should Skarlet be banned @ Evo?


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Vilén

too smart to play MKX
If you aren't using Kung Lao, Raiden, Jade, Smoke, Nightwolf, or Ermac, you aren't beating Skarlet.
So kunai zoning is really that strong, huh? I had a feeling, but haven't really cared to put in enough time with her as she does not amuse me.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Remove the push back on the first dagger. Remove follow ups after slide. Adjust throw damage to match universal throw damage. Fix u+3 as a compensation. Skarlet will be fine then.

I think Tom Brady and REO are exaggerating when they claim she beats 7:3 75% of the roster. She does, however, beat 7:3 50% of the roster. Think Sareena.
 

BATTLEBEAR

NJ Jobber
Remove the push back on the first dagger. Remove follow ups after slide. Adjust throw damage to match universal throw damage. Fix u+3 as a compensation. Skarlet will be fine then.

I think Tom Brady and REO are exaggerating when they claim she beats 7:3 75% of the roster. She does, however, beat 7:3 50% of the roster. Think Sareena.
sareena? from MK Mythologies :) i kid i kid.

But yea guess my baraka is fucked then haha

but then again he has a lot of bad matchups and i like challenge.
 

Vilén

too smart to play MKX
Remove the push back on the first dagger. Remove follow ups after slide. Adjust throw damage to match universal throw damage. Fix u+3 as a compensation. Skarlet will be fine then.

I think Tom Brady and REO are exaggerating when they claim she beats 7:3 75% of the roster. She does, however, beat 7:3 50% of the roster. Think Sareena.
Well, thinking Sareena doesn't help me personally since I've never played an MK game where she was featured.
 

REO

Undead
Match-ups for characters against Skarlet:

Scorpion: 2-8
Liu Kang: 2-8
Kung Lao: 6-4
Sub-Zero: 2-8
Sindel: 4-6
Ermac: 5-5
Reptile: 2-8
Kitana: 3-7
Johnny Cage: 2-8
Jade: 5-5
Mileena: 5-5
Nightwolf: 5-5
Cyrax: 3-7
Noob Saibot: 5-5
Smoke: 7-3
Sektor: 3-7
Sonya: 2-8
Jax: 2-8
Kano: 4-6
Stryker: 2-8
Shang Tsung: 3-7
Baraka: 2-8
Kabal: 4-6
Raiden: 7-3
Cyber Sub-Zero: 4-6
Sheeva: 2-8
Quan Chi: 2-8


Edit: This is considering the Skarlet player is doing knife cancels to the frame, which I'm sure most of you have not experienced playing against, yet.

 

D_Matt_Ma

Sheeva isn't Goro's wife. Goro is her husband.
Wow, all my characters are 2-8 against Skarlett. That being said, that's what the pocket Smoke is for. :)

Sorry Reo, but I'm not buying into that match-up chart. There are too many 2-8 match-ups there. I would expect some 1-9 match-ups and a lot more 7-3 match-ups. It feels you may have exagerrated some of them.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Vilén said:
Well, thinking Sareena doesn't help me personally since I've never played an MK game where she was featured.

Imagine if those projectiles were red...

@ REO, some of those match ups are highly exaggerated, man. Report to AIM immediately.
 

Vilén

too smart to play MKX
Wait, she has a projectile infinite?

Fucking seriously? Or is it just really bad? Just the infinite video + "imagine if they were red" has me a little confused and I just want to be VERY clear on this since I already feel like a total dumbass for not giving her adequate attention apparently.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Vilén said:
Wait, she has a projectile infinite?

Fucking seriously? Or is it just really bad? Just the infinite video + "imagine if they were red" has me a little confused and I just want to be VERY clear on this since I already feel like a total dumbass for not giving her adequate attention apparently.
Skarlet does not have a projectile infinite combo. Skarlet's projectile speed, however, is comparable to Sareena's projectile speed, which is why I linked you to that video.

Tom's and REO's main issue with Skarlet is that there should be no push back on Skarlet's first dagger. Currently, Skarlet's first dagger creates the same push back on block that Noob's Shadow Tackle does. The push back makes it very hard for some characters to approach Skarlet.
 

Vilén

too smart to play MKX
Oh, okay. I was thinking that, but I had myself convinced I missed an infinite and was feeling pretty embarrassed.
 

Vulcan Hades

Champion
So if I understand correctly, the pushback from her first dagger + her ability to dash cancel it into another instant one = she can lock people down in blockstun and advance on them with infinite zoning advantage??
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Vulcan Hades said:
So if I understand correctly, the pushback from her first dagger + her ability to dash cancel it into another instant one = she can lock people down in blockstun and advance on them with infinite zoning advantage??
REO's numbers are grossly exaggerated. Think logically. How can he gather all match ups for Skarlet in less than two weeks? It is absurd.

But it is true. If you are using some low or mid tier characters, such as Baraka or Jax, on Skarlet, she will zone them for a long time like O.Sagat in ST.
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
REO's numbers are grossly exaggerated.
I don't think so. Dark Rob said in the Sub-Zero matchup thread that it's a 10-0 in Skarlet's favour, so I don't think Reo's going over the top. If I am locked down by constant projectiles and she can go ahead and mix me up with throws, launch me with overheads, etc, while I am crouching the daggers, how is that not an 8-2 in her favour?
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
salvificblood said:
I don't think so. Dark Rob said in the Sub-Zero matchup thread that it's a 10-0 in Skarlet's favour, so I don't think Reo's going over the top. If I am locked down by constant projectiles and she can go ahead and mix me up with throws, launch me with overheads, etc, while I am crouching the daggers, how is that not an 8-2 in her favour?
I am not necessarily saying that Tom and REO are wrong. If a match up is 10:0 or 9:1, the suggestion is that I can teach Skarlet to just about anybody and he/she will be able to defeat Tom's Sub Zero convincingly. I just do not think that the community should be jumping to conclusions prematurely. If Skarlet is broken, NRS will patch her. No worries. All the DLCs will be examined carefully. NRS knows that people will refuse to pay for bad characters, so they are making them all fairly strong.

Players want to ban Skarlet at Evo because she is a new character. I actually do not have a problem with that. Fighting games have banned new characters before.
 

Alex_Smith

The artist formerly known as blueNINE.
I actually hope that she will be patched soon so that there'll at least be a chance she won't be banned. I just hope she'll still be good after the patch.
 

DrDogg

Kombatant
So what's the final word on this? Is she banned or not? People need to know if they should worry about the match-up.
 
Let me explain why she should be banned from a previous evo example. SCIV was at evo a year or two ago and I remember a lot of local hype getting generated with whispers of "I remember the SC2 days, so if the game looks competitive I'd love to pick it up". A lot of these players were nationally competitive SC2 players that had competed and finished high in SC2 majors, but had been really deterred by SC3 stupidity.

Evo top 8 gets played and any who watched could tell there was a hilda player in top 8 that wasn't that good. His throw tech and general reactions to slow high dmg mixups where just exceptionally sub par. He often whiffed things despite hilda having gargantuan reach, and just in general his play seemed subpar/sloppy. However, he made top 8 solely because he always hit her death combo which starts from a move so broke they eventually have banned hilda in most SCIV competition from what i've recently heard. The only reason he ended up getting knocked out was a cassandra player got a lot of lucky breaks with stages and obstacles preventing the guaranteed ringout.

A LOT of people complained about how crappy the game looked afterwards because of the spammy/scrubby nature of those matches despite the fact the person that won was a really good european ivy that probably would have beat the hilda player anyways. MK is looking to resurrect itself and hype/cool factor is what it needs. A spammy character that shuts down most of the cast and forces counterpicks is VERY anti-hype. If she isn't banned and top 8 has matches of spamming skarlet MK will likely lose a LOT of face and considering a lot of good players are already getting a bit deterred by the excessive patching something like this could be a nail in the coffin for MK. Release gave MK a lot of hype and it's stumbled since than, I think the game has potential but not banning her likely will hurt the community as any competitive player that truly knows how to play skarlet will use her with that kind of money on the line.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Elder God
NetherRealm Studios
if you're hardcore enough to watch Evo top 8 and be bothered by the patching, wouldn't you know Skarlet was banned to make the game look good and see her used in tournaments starting weeks later? I don't understand this argument. If we're this worried the game will look bad then the game is doomed anyway. If Skarlet is a problem we cannot hide it. Unless we have reason to believe they're going to fix the knives soon but after the July 6th deadline.
 
In weeks she shouldn't look like this, from NRS current record you can bet your ass this isn't going to stay. So in weeks she won't look like that.

See your saying it won't scare people away that already find the game competitive, my argument had nothing to do with them. Evo is where a huge number of competitive gamers collect and you can bet your ass people will pick up the game if theirs a lot of hype based around it. Think 3s daigo parry and how that hype brought about a resurgence for American 3s play by showing something spectacular that attracted new blood.

Sure most of them won't be great but some of them will level up their game and become viable competitors. You always want to be growing/getting better bringing a lame character that wins simply because of a ridiculous exploit that most of the cast cannot deal with is not fun to watch/play against. If people who don't understand the game yet think that is what the game is they won't join in. You could say they are "ignorant" or "should look closer" but in their defense why should they? Evo is supposed to be where the most high level matches I happen, if high level at Evo looks like dumb spam people will think that is what the game IS.

Also let's not forget the argument that we wanted to ban her incase she's was broken and I think having several 8-2's and a plethora of 7-3's as broken. It's not like the characters that beat knife spam are a hard counter to her either.
 
After playing m2Dave skarlett i damn agree she dont need push back on her projectiles i lost a whole round with sub dealing with projectiles sheesh.
 

Nick T.

Mortal
In weeks she shouldn't look like this, from NRS current record you can bet your ass this isn't going to stay. So in weeks she won't look like that.

See your saying it won't scare people away that already find the game competitive, my argument had nothing to do with them. Evo is where a huge number of competitive gamers collect and you can bet your ass people will pick up the game if theirs a lot of hype based around it. Think 3s daigo parry and how that hype brought about a resurgence for American 3s play by showing something spectacular that attracted new blood.

Sure most of them won't be great but some of them will level up their game and become viable competitors. You always want to be growing/getting better bringing a lame character that wins simply because of a ridiculous exploit that most of the cast cannot deal with is not fun to watch/play against. If people who don't understand the game yet think that is what the game is they won't join in. You could say they are "ignorant" or "should look closer" but in their defense why should they? Evo is supposed to be where the most high level matches I happen, if high level at Evo looks like dumb spam people will think that is what the game IS.

Also let's not forget the argument that we wanted to ban her incase she's was broken and I think having several 8-2's and a plethora of 7-3's as broken. It's not like the characters that beat knife spam are a hard counter to her either.
I agree. In addition to this I would like to add that, I'm sure after a while Skarlet will develop past knife pressure and next year MK could be a much better, more developed, matured game than it is now(with the addition of new DLC, etc).
 
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