Tech Using Water Shield to full combo punish safe attacks

[Eddy Wang]

I know, it's just that Jade players had whole threads dedicated to the ability to glow through every hole but it was never really used due to her being low tier. Now that Aquaman, a top tier character, has this ability, I feel like more people might actually use it in high level play

jade punishes where 19 frames, normally a d1 has 20 frames to recover on whiff, so its understandable to see where are those coming from.

-Kabal in other hand had the same hability to parry last hits with a 9 frame punisher afterwards.
-Skarlet could do the same, all though she could parry multiple hits, including armor, and punish with a 13f or even 10 if possible.
-Although jade armor lasted for about a second she could take as many hits her armor could last and if punish if the move was punishable, bad effect on this, its that every time jade got hit on glow, the damage output was increased.

 

[TRY_HARD]

I'm thinking naked water shields will probably not be all that useful, but ending strings like B12, B2, F1, or F13 with water shield will either A. cause opponents to retaliate prematurely and get blown up by this or B. cause opponents to be aware of this tech and hesitate, allowing Aquaman to get out safely or continue pressure. At the very least, it's yet another matchup specific thing that an opponent has to consider when facing Aquaman. I think it could add a lot to his meta game if it's used effectively, though I don't disagree that it will be a huge liability for anyone who uses it incorrectly.

Yeah the more options the better and i have had normals hit me while i was in watershield and instead of just punishing with 8% a full combo would be 10x's better

Tbh if watershield's armor was instant or 5 frames like B3 's it would be way to good[/quote]

 

[TRY_HARD]

Also to add to this, I don't think Water Shield has 17 frames of startup. In the Aquaman wake-up thread it says that it has 8-9 frames of invincibility when used as a wake-up attack and has 1-2 frames of vulnerability before the armor activates, which would make the armor start up somewhere around 10-11 frames? Unless of course the armor activates faster when used as a wake-up or something.

I tested it in pratice mode i did Aquaman v Aquaman and put the computer to reversal watershield

After fooling around for alittle while i got a 2 to interupt a reversal watershield after a blocked d1

D1 is -3 and 2 is 13 frames making it 16 frames and i got it to hit the reversal watershield before it gained armor (took my a decent # of tries since its techinaly a just frame if watershield really is 17 frames if not more) but yeah since the computer imputs the reversal hit as quick as possible i think its 17

I couldnt get a block b1 (-4) into a 2 to interupt it at all but i could just not be imputing it fast enough but it is at least 17 frames

 

[Ectothermia]

If you're in Water Shield and someone jumps at you instead of going for the punish you intended, just MB it for guaranteed safety.

It had just occurred to me that green lantern/aquaman using mb minigun/rush against this isn't as bad as I thought. If you read the mb coming out, react by bursting the shield. If you screw up and get tagged by gun/rush, pop water of life and push block if desired. Still not an optimal use of resources but it does allow you to deal with these scenarios and shutdown pressure.

 

[supernumian]

Thanks for the info.
I know that Aquashield has some unexplored properties!

 

[Ectothermia]

When I get out of work today I want to explore some frequently used wakeup attacks and see how useful this is for baiting out a wakeup nearly risk free. My thought is that you'll be able to goad opponents into reacting poorly by doing water shield during their wakeup since it looks like FTD on start up. If anyone has any requests for wake ups or typically unpunishable strings for me to test, post them and I'll get to them later today.

 

[Deleted member 9158]

There are definitely some slow recovering but frame-trappy, abuseable strings that give me a lot of trouble consistently (Superman's F23~Breath, Raven's 223) so having this in the back pocket will be helpful in dissuading people from throwing them out loosey-goosey since they are otherwise unpunishable. Depending on how viable this is I think it will scare some players into second guessing their options when playing Aquaman, which is already a big part of his game thanks to his trait.

I don't use Aquaman that heavily (more of a grundy and ares player) but I think I'll hit the lab with this and test it

 

[Immortal Kombat]

Another thought, woudnt using water shield at the end of all his cancellable strings make him completly safe on block?

 

[Ectothermia]

Another thought, woudnt using water shield at the end of all his cancellable strings make him completly safe on block?

Yes, I think there's a guide on this forum that recommends ending a blocked b2 with water shield. F13 might be a fun one too, or maybe even a blocked d1 to retaliate against counter pressure. I think there's a lot here to make aquamans less safe options into a means to bait what the opponent thinks is a safe counter attack.

 

[Zenrot]

The only problem with ending blockstrings with Water Shield is if the opponent reads the shield you have to burn a bar to avoid a full punish. I wouldn't recommend always ending it that way for this reason, you should test your opponents ability to punish you and then react accordingly by using Water Shield later to intercept that punish.

 

[Immortal Kombat]

The only problem with ending blockstrings with Water Shield is if the opponent reads the shield you have to burn a bar to avoid a full punish. I wouldn't recommend always ending it that way for this reason, you should test your opponents ability to punish you and then react accordingly by using Water Shield later to intercept that punish.

I was also thinking you miss out on hit confirmed combos if you get in the habit of doing that

 

[Zenrot]

I was also thinking you miss out on hit confirmed combos if you get in the habit of doing that

Yep, that too. B2 is the best one to do it with because it's re-actable by the opponent, so if you're fast enough you can check their reaction to it. I would never recommend doing it after f13 since you're + anyway, and I can see the merits in doing it after b12 but I've just started doing b123 since its only -3 anyway.

 

[Ben Reed]

Immortal Kombat Water Shield doesn't make Aquaman "completely" safe on block. Technically, he's NEGATIVE on block from Water Shield ender even if he drops it immediately due to the recovery time on dropped Water Shield. The main utility for Water Shield string ender is if you're doing something that's negative on block anyway (say b12) and you want to see if the opponent is dumb enough to throw an unsafe string at Water Shield...or if they freeze up seeing Water Shield thinking "oh fuck armor, don't hit buttons", you either backdash if you think they're smart enough to poke a forward dash cancel, or just dash up and throw a la an SF4 FADC if you think they're gonna just sit still and block. It's not useless, but it's DEFINITELY not something you can do in EVERY situation where a move gets blocked.

It's really 17 frames to gain armor on Water Shield? I thought for sure it was closer to 10. No wonder wakeup Water Shield sucks so bad. But yeah, a lot of people (who don't play Aquaman) don't realize that he doesn't gain the armor immediately upon startup. If he did, shit would be way too crazy. Deathstroke guns would be nearly useless against him, lol (YOU CAN'T SHOOT ME BECAUSE I'M WET, BITCH).

This move definitely has a lot of applications, but it's not totally free like a lot of people assume it is. It has punish application against slow stuff that's advantageous on block (Doomsday MB shoulder), but just sitting around with Water Shield up in most matchups waiting for something to happen is dangerous. You generally need good reads AND good spacing/frame advantage in order to use it as a counter-poke (I guess more like an anti-poke?), because the effective startup (really hate that the game lists it as 0f startup, VERY misleading) makes it tricky to react with on short notice.

Punishes from Water Shield release are also harder than they look because the recovery is not instant when you release the shield. Scorpion teleport MB punishes, for example, are surprisingly tight. You have to release the shield basically as soon as you eat the 1st hit in order to recover fast enough to punish Scorpion with b12. Hence why I suggest using it only for stuff that inflicts a ton of blockstun but otherwise has a lot of recovery such as DD MB shoulder or b3s/f3s.

Using it against a character like Superman IMO requires a bad opponent more than anything else. Using Water Shield against advantageous stuff with long reach but SLOW startup is quite smart, but a decent Superman has both the mobility to keep you from backing out to safe Water Shield activation range and of course his f2 has a stupid speed:ange::safety:eward on hit ratio to begin with. He basically has to intentionally let you out to use Water Shield, unless you guess right at round start with it, in which case you may never need to use it again if you can keep your momentum.

tl;dr this move is good but it's not THAT good.

 

[Dizzy]

Some other people brought it up, but its much too slow to be used to try and blow up things with fast startup, even on read. You'll get hit out of the startup.

Also, to whoever said "use it at the beginning of a round", I have no idea what that would do. You will get hit out the startup by fast moves that advance, and even if you absorb something like a jump attack, you just took 11% and can't do anything except take the damage. No meter to MB it at the beginning of the match.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Hmm... this intrigues me...

ice clone esque? XD

 

[trustinme]

I know, it's just that Jade players had whole threads dedicated to the ability to glow through every hole but it was never really used due to her being low tier. Now that Aquaman, a top tier character, has this ability, I feel like more people might actually use it in high level play

theres a big difference between jade being able to stop a combo mid flight and start her own and aquas sheild,there 2 totally different things. As for the op it's a nice idea I guess although I can't really see a genuine use for it in a match tbh.

 

[Impractical Joker]

theres a big difference between jade being able to stop a combo mid flight and start her own and aquas sheild,there 2 totally different things. As for the op it's a nice idea I guess although I can't really see a genuine use for it in a match tbh.

How is Aquaman interrupting Green Lantern's b1,3 with water shield and punishing any different than jade glowing in between a string and punishing?

 

[Dizzy]

How is Aquaman interrupting Green Lantern's b1,3 with water shield and punishing any different than jade glowing in between a string and punishing?

You definitely cannot water shield in the middle of a string, no matter how big the gap.

Even if you could, why wouldnt you just use any normal you can think of (d1, d2, b12, f1, etc) instead since they all start up faster than Water Shield?

 

[Zenrot]

You definitely can't Water Shield in the middle of strings, no way. You can however pre-empt strings with Water Shield cancels. That is, IMO, the only valid use of this other than projectile absorbing.

 

[Impractical Joker]

Oh wow, I completely misunderstood this tech, I don't play Aquaman so I didn't realize this was a preemptive maneuver. Thanks for explaining

 

[Cossner]

I'm gonna sound mean but whatevs.

Apparently obvious shit nowdays is called tech?

 

[trustinme]

How is Aquaman interrupting Green Lantern's b1,3 with water shield and punishing any different than jade glowing in between a string and punishing?

aquamans sheild isn't super armor like jades glow,if it was he'd be super op.aquaman can't activate shield while being hit like jade could,wtf are you talking about?

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

This may be obvious, but this is very useful against opponents that can punish b2 on block. By canceling b2 into water shield, you can blow up their attempted punish.

That wasn't obvious to me lol...

 

[Ben Reed]

Also, to whoever said "use it at the beginning of a round", I have no idea what that would do. You will get hit out the startup by fast moves that advance, and even if you absorb something like a jump attack, you just took 11% and can't do anything except take the damage. No meter to MB it at the beginning of the match.

I meant more like "wait a beat after round start, THEN Water Shield just to see how your opponent reacts", not immediate activation (that IS suicide), but I agree that it's a very weak round start option. That was really my point of mentioning it in my post -- even if it DOES work, you probably could have done something more rewarding at round start for marginally more risk, and one good round start guess into combo ending with d3 or f2 1+3 may give you so much momentum (depending on how bad at playing the wakeup game your opponent and/or your opponent's character is) that you'll never be at a range or neutral situation where you'd need to use Water Shield as a gimmicky bait again.

It is a good move for very SPECIFIC uses (i.e. punishing moves that are otherwise totally unpunishable like Scorpion teleport MB), and those specific situations are worth learning. But in many more common situations where Water Shield is safe and/or effective, there are often other options that are safer, more effective, or both (i.e. vs. Deathstroke, why waste your time trying to get Water Shield active fast enough to absorb gunshots when you could much more safely just dash and block your way in?). So I would say consider Water Shield only where you've already exhausted other, potentially better options.

 

[Desperdicio]

Awesome thread! I think an Aquaman who can pull this in a tournament may be fearsome. One thing: Raven's 223 is not so tight, and is punishable with b12 as well.