Tech Using Water Shield to full combo punish safe attacks

[Ectothermia]

Hi guys, I discovered some new stuff about the Water Shield today that I think will be very valuable for playing Aquaman at a high level. It essentially allows you to punish moves that have high recovery but are otherwise safe on block by taking the hit with Water Shield. dash cancelling immediately, and using B12 to start a combo.

In addition to testing it on Aquaman's B3, I have interrupted and punished Aquaman's F13 between the F1 and the 3, and punished Aquaman's B12. I'm not great with figuring out frames but I think anything that has more than a certain number of recovery frames can be punished using this. This can also be tightened up a bit, I was showing B12 but we can squeeze out an extra frame of slack by using D1~DB2 instead to start the punish since we're going to be right in their face after a forward dash.

I doubt this will be viable online, and I'm questioning the practicality of this in an actual match (I want to do more research on some more commonly abused strings or specials to get an idea of how useful this really is) but it shows a lot of promise for a very underlooked move.

Edit: This also works against both of the follow ups from Green Lantern's otherwise safe low B1 starter, though these have so much recovery time that the forward dash cancel isn't even necessary. You can just stop the water shield and start a B12 combo.

 

[Ectothermia]

I'm starting a list of punishable attacks using this, if anyone has suggestions of things to try or has personally tested some themselves please let me know and I'll try to keep the list up to date.

Water Shield Punishable Attacks:
Aquaman
F13 (dash cancel after F1, punish with D1)
F1~scoop (dash cancel after F1, punish with D1)
B12 (extremely tight, dash cancel after 2 and punish with D1)
B123 (dash cancel after 3 and punish with D1)
223 (dash cancel after second 2 and punish with D1)
22 (dash cancel after second 2 and punish with D1)
Any cancel into FTD (dash cancel from last hit before FTD, punish with D1)
Using this tech against Aquaman may be risky due to the possibility of MB Trident Rush or countering with the same tech

Black Adam
b23 (backdash after 2. punish with scoop)

Batman
123 (backdash after 2, punish with scoop)
113 (dash cancel after second 1, punish with D1)
223 (back dash after either 2, punish with b12)
b112 (back dash after either 1, punish with b12)

Doomsday
MB DF3 (dash cancel after second hit, punish with d1)
DF2 (dash cancel after second hit, punish with b12)

Green Lantern
B12 (easy, no dash cancel needed)
B13 (easy, no dash cancel needed. Watch out for lift cancel)
B13~Minigun (tight, dash cancel as fourth hit is blocked, punish with d1. MB Minigun will outlast duration of water shield, don't risk if GL has meter)

Killer Frost
BD3 (dash cancel forward and throw. Throw might whiff if KF back dashes after recovering)

Raven
22 (dash cancel needed)
223 (tight, dash cancel after 22, punish with d1)

Sinestro
B12 (tight, dash cancel forward after 2 and punish with d1)
B12~DB1 (dash cancel forward after 2 and punish with d1)

Superman
F23 (tight, dash cancel needed, punish with d1)
F23~Breath (shield ignores breath, no dash cancel needed)

 

[Impractical Joker]

I'm starting a list of punishable attacks using this, if anyone has suggestions of things to try or has personally tested some themselves please let me know and I'll try to keep the list up to date.

Water Shield Punishable Attacks:

Batman
123 (backdash after 2, punish with scoop)

Green Lantern
B12 (easy, no dash cancel needed)
B13 (easy, no dash cancel needed)

Raven
22 (dash cancel needed)
223 (tight, dash cancel after 22, punish with d1)

Superman
F23 (tight, dash cancel needed, punish with d1)
F23~Breath (shield ignores breath, no dash cancel needed)

What if Green Lantern uses b1,3 lift of b1,3 machine gun? I feel fairly confident that b1,3 lift would catch Aquaman but if it beats machine gun then it might be usable on him

 

[Impractical Joker]

This tech reminds me of all of the Jade glow punishes that were possible but never used. Although this is Aquaman so it might actually be used

 

[Immortal Kombat]

As you were saying, definetly tricky to pull off in matches. I feel like it has potential. For now i think his most practical use of water shield is to blow up wakeups after you score a knockdown

 

[Immortal Kombat]

Come to think of it...why do aquaman players not begin the match in water shield?

 

[Ectothermia]

What if Green Lantern uses b1,3 lift of b1,3 machine gun? I feel fairly confident that b1,3 lift would catch Aquaman but if it beats machine gun then it might be usable on him

I'll try these out

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

This is cool stuff. Even if you can't get a punish fast enough before they can block, can this pretty much give you a free through every single time during their recovery frames?

 

[Ectothermia]

What if Green Lantern uses b1,3 lift of b1,3 machine gun? I feel fairly confident that b1,3 lift would catch Aquaman but if it beats machine gun then it might be usable on him

Machine gun can be punished if you dash after the last hit. MB Machine gun will blow you up though, so this probably isn't recommended if GL has meter. B1,3 Lift catches you if you try to dash in as 3 hits.

 

[Deleted member 9158]

not bad! worth looking into and practicing

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

I believe he can punish Scorps teleport to
unless that changed after the patch

 

[Ectothermia]

not bad! worth looking into and practicing

There are definitely some slow recovering but frame-trappy, abuseable strings that give me a lot of trouble consistently (Superman's F23~Breath, Raven's 223) so having this in the back pocket will be helpful in dissuading people from throwing them out loosey-goosey since they are otherwise unpunishable. Depending on how viable this is I think it will scare some players into second guessing their options when playing Aquaman, which is already a big part of his game thanks to his trait.

 

[CRUM]

This has potential to blow up the GL matchup. Damn...

 

[Zenrot]

This may be obvious, but this is very useful against opponents that can punish b2 on block. By canceling b2 into water shield, you can blow up their attempted punish.

 

[Ectothermia]

It just occurred to me how much this could change the Aquaman mirror match. I'm imagining two Aquamen just trying to punish each other with this but they kept running into each other's Water Shield

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Wow.. What about jump-ins? Is it fast enough to break pressure after a jumping attack?

 

[Zenrot]

I don't think you can punish jump-ins, but you can probably back-dash and reset the neutral position.

 

[Eddy Wang]

This tech reminds me of all of the Jade glow punishes that were possible but never used. Although this is Aquaman so it might actually be used

In Mortal Kombat, When someone armors a move, the frame advantage taken in account is not the block advantage, its the entire duration frames of the move, because the armor doesn't block the move and leave your character in block advantage frames, it ignores it.

So, if a D1 is -13 on block, and is 50 of duration on whiff, if that move is armored the character who should be blocking is ignoring the move's block advantage he doesn't have 13 frame to punish, he has 50.

So yes, this should basically be possible in Injustice as well, i will look into it.

 

[TRY_HARD]

I love Aquamans watershield i think its a great tool and i like this idea but sadly idt this is pratical within the range youre using it

The reason i say this is becuase of the start up on watershield. After testing i think its safe to say that after you imput watershield it takes 17 frames for the armor to activate (95% sure here if not its 18 frames) so if Aquaman imputs Watershield at the exaxt same time the opponent imputs there normal and there move is less then 17 frames Aquaman is gonna get hit

So agaisnt some stuff like slow b3's yeah watershield will win but what if they throw out theyre quick normal instead? Its seems like an uneeded risk vs a majority of the cast

 

[Impractical Joker]

In Mortal Kombat, When someone armors a move, the frame advantage taken in account is not the block advantage, its the entire duration frames of the move, because the armor doesn't block the move and leave your character in block advantage frames, it ignores it.

So, if a D1 is -13 on block, and is 50 of duration on whiff, if that move is armored the character who should be blocking is ignoring the move's block advantage he doesn't have 13 frame to punish, he has 50.

So yes, this should basically be possible in Injustice as well, i will look into it.

I know, it's just that Jade players had whole threads dedicated to the ability to glow through every hole but it was never really used due to her being low tier. Now that Aquaman, a top tier character, has this ability, I feel like more people might actually use it in high level play

 

[Impractical Joker]

As if Aquaman needed more tools...

 

[Ectothermia]

Wow.. What about jump-ins? Is it fast enough to break pressure after a jumping attack?

Doesn't look like it, not sure if it's situational though. I just tried against Aquaman's j2 followed by a block, and I couldn't get the hit in. J2 followed by 22 kept tagging me if I tried to dash after the J2. Like Zenrot says, back dashing might be the best choice if you water shielded a jump in, but if I were expecting a jump in I'd probably try to prep D2 instead.

 

[Zenrot]

Doesn't look like it, not sure if it's situational though. I just tried against Aquaman's j2 followed by a block, and I couldn't get the hit in. J2 followed by 22 kept tagging me if I tried to dash after the J2. Like Zenrot says, back dashing might be the best choice if you water shielded a jump in, but if I were expecting a jump in I'd probably try to prep D2 instead.

If you're in Water Shield and someone jumps at you instead of going for the punish you intended, just MB it for guaranteed safety.

 

[Ectothermia]

I love Aquamans watershield i think its a great tool and i like this idea but sadly idt this is pratical within the range youre using it

The reason i say this is becuase of the start up on watershield. After testing i think its safe to say that after you imput watershield it takes 17 frames for the armor to activate (95% sure here if not its 18 frames) so if Aquaman imputs Watershield at the exaxt same time the opponent imputs there normal and there move is less then 17 frames Aquaman is gonna get hit

So agaisnt some stuff like slow b3's yeah watershield will win but what if they throw out theyre quick normal instead? Its seems like an uneeded risk vs a majority of the cast

I'm thinking naked water shields will probably not be all that useful, but ending strings like B12, B2, F1, or F13 with water shield will either A. cause opponents to retaliate prematurely and get blown up by this or B. cause opponents to be aware of this tech and hesitate, allowing Aquaman to get out safely or continue pressure. At the very least, it's yet another matchup specific thing that an opponent has to consider when facing Aquaman. I think it could add a lot to his meta game if it's used effectively, though I don't disagree that it will be a huge liability for anyone who uses it incorrectly.

 

[Zenrot]

I'm thinking naked water shields will probably not be all that useful, but ending strings like B12, B2, F1, or F13 with water shield will either A. cause opponents to retaliate prematurely and get blown up by this or B. cause opponents to be aware of this tech and hesitate, allowing Aquaman to get out safely or continue pressure. At the very least, it's yet another matchup specific thing that an opponent has to consider when facing Aquaman. I think it could add a lot to his meta game if it's used effectively, though I don't disagree that it will be a huge liability for anyone who uses it incorrectly.

Also to add to this, I don't think Water Shield has 17 frames of startup. In the Aquaman wake-up thread it says that it has 8-9 frames of invincibility when used as a wake-up attack and has 1-2 frames of vulnerability before the armor activates, which would make the armor start up somewhere around 10-11 frames? Unless of course the armor activates faster when used as a wake-up or something.