Overreacting to Balance Patches....

[cR WoundCowboy]

So with the latest gameplay changes, we have been hearing more about "how much of a joke this game is" and why patching early is a shitty thing. In my opinion, everyone is overreacting. The biggest changes so far have been:
- Sinestro buffs
-Shazam buffs
-Deathstroke nerfs
-Flash buffs
-Catwoman buff

With all of the whining going on you would think that the game has been COMPLETELY changed multiple times over. Other changes were either system fixes or character specific error corrections (Sinestro's throw, Aquaman's nearly safe low scoop). I may have missed some but you get the point. While the patches are technically different versions of the game, the fact is that most of them are just making minor adjustments or fixes. More to come.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

I would also like to speak to those who seem to be against patching in general. Patching can make a game drastically better. Sure, back in "the good 'ol days" patching did not happen often but I don't think that is necessarily a good thing. Just look at the old MK's. They will always be special to me, but they are dogshit on a competitive level.

"Just learn to adapt" can be useful. It definitely helped me learn MUs back in MK and INJ. But there are some cases where no amount of adapting will help you overcome broken shit. No matter how much MU EXP I get in MK, Smoke and Cyrax will always destroy Shang because they are straight up broken.

Patching can turn this into an excellent game. As much as I love MK, the bugs, resets and the KKK (Kenshi, Kabal, Kung Lao) will always run shop. That game is done being balanced or fixed. Injustice, however, still has potential.

 

[Hellbringer]

I agree, ppl come in threads saying omg another patch/nerf? I drop this game!, even tough they dont know what they are talking about cause scorpion didnt really change...
Besides like you said, i don't really see any mistakes being made for patches except maybe DS nerfs, but most of the good things patched nobody talks about, they only wanna talk about the negative things and flood the forums whining about it...

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Combo breaker

Edit: NVM thought you were reserving more posts

But yeah I agree with what you're saying 100%, it's really not that much to have to 'adapt' to.

 

[DJ L Toro]

you forgot doomsday nerfs.

 

[SaJa]

Starcraft 2 is patched every 2 months for years. Progamers like it and I don't know what's wrong with it. It's supposed to balance the game, brings more hype, and giv a better longevity to the game.

 

[Bildslash]

I dunno I liked to spam Low Scoop and wanted WW to never use B3 in a combo.

 

[jak d ripr]

I definitely agree with you, I honestly don't think NRS take our opinions as seriously as people think. I mean, if they really did listen to bitching, superman would be a distant memory at this point for he would have been nerfed to shit a long time ago, as would black adam. I mean casuals and top players complain about supes(and batgirl, who has also gone untouched).

Overall other than the hotfix on scorpion(and considering his release felt more like a leak than anything he might not have been supposed to come out till today), the only major changes have been deathstrokes nerfs and buffs, and buffs are rarely ever complained about.

The irony of the situation people are complaining about quick patches, while complaining that black adam, superman, and killer frost(in some cases) haven't gotten patched yet. Damned if you, damned if you don't.

Personally I like the way they are patching this game, I think they should focus primarily on helping the characters who they feel need help and tweaking some aspects of the engine(like metropolis rooftop) before worrying about characters.

 

[DuBBer Kiir]

There's nothing wrong with patching something that wasn't even supposed to be there in the first place lol, it's just when somebody finds something brainless/broken they want to abuse it. Then they proceed to whine for months and months when said unintentionally broken "thing" is removed/patched and actually have to think when they use example character.

 

[doomfarmer]

Wait. Why is Flash on this list for biggest changes? He can meter burn his lightning charge on block (but can be ducked and punished)... that's the only buff he got. Prolly shouldn't be on a list for biggest changes IMO.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Wait. Why is Flash on this list for biggest changes? He can meter burn his lightning charge on block (but can be ducked and punished)... that's the only buff he got. Prolly shouldn't be on a list for biggest changes IMO.

I am pretty sure that something else changed too. I think one of his strings has more advantage on block? Lol anyways even if it wasn't a big change, that just goes to prove my point.
LEGEND

 

[Sasuga]

With all the patches that came out, from an absolute viewpoint, not even 1% of the entire game was changed.

 

[1truking]

I would also like to speak to those who seem to be against patching in general. Patching can make a game drastically better. Sure, back in "the good 'ol days" patching did not happen often but I don't think that is necessarily a good thing. Just look at the old MK's. They will always be special to me, but they are dogshit on a competitive level.

"Just learn to adapt" can be useful. It definitely helped me learn MUs back in MK and INJ. But there are some cases where no amount of adapting will help you overcome broken shit. No matter how much MU EXP I get in MK, Smoke and Cyrax will always destroy Shang because they are straight up broken.

Patching can turn this into an excellent game. As much as I love MK, the bugs, resets and the KKK (Kenshi, Kabal, Kung Lao) will always run shop. That game is done being balanced or fixed. Injustice, however, still has potential.

People who don't think the old games got patches are either too young to know any better, only played the console versions, or they weren't paying as much attention as they thought.

MK games in particular had numerous patches some fixed balance issues and created others some fixed glitches. Example they repeatedly had a glitch that put the arcade cabinet on free play which arcade owners absolutely loved. They removed moves in some cases and fixed other problems. Street fighter series had numerous patches as well but it wasn't obvious to most people.

I personally think games should be allowed to grow a bit before buffs/nerfs happen. If they're fixes for things that were blatantly unintended thats not a big deal such as fixes to the wakeup attacks allowing you to actually do them.

 

[Big Pampering]

for me its just completely ridiculous to nerf a character that hasnt even been out for a week even if they were kabal-like good. It might be obvious that scorpion is too good, but even so they need to let people play scorpion for a month before they can decide what exactly to nerf, you don't want another cyrax ''nerf'' to happen again. and they keep messing up my wonder woman, its just really annoying.

 

[MashPotatoTower]

Because I adapt immediately to patches does that make me a higher form of life?

 

[serge]

It's just that this community likes to complain more than anything. I have never seen a community complain more than this one in over 25 years of gaming, it absolutely blows my mind. And I've only been here for a couple months.

 

[LEGEND]

I am pretty sure that something else changed too. I think one of his strings has more advantage on block? Lol anyways even if it wasn't a big change, that just goes to prove my point.
LEGEND

yes his B2 now is +4 on block and +15 on hit and his D2 is now +1 on block

D1 and D1D2 are both +1 as well. And the hitbox of his "mid" Jabs have been slightly increased so certain combos are now slightly easier and hit more ducking hitboxes

EDIT: also Being able to combo off of MB LC is huge imo

Also i'm fairly certain they made it easier to combo off of MB Sonic Pound, whether it be a direct buff or a product of the buffed hitboxes of Flash's Jabs. You can now get 35% damage with ease and it seems much more consistent than before

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

People who don't think the old games got patches are either too young to know any better, only played the console versions, or they weren't paying as much attention as they thought.

MK games in particular had numerous patches some fixed balance issues and created others some fixed glitches. Example they repeatedly had a glitch that put the arcade cabinet on free play which arcade owners absolutely loved. They removed moves in some cases and fixed other problems. Street fighter series had numerous patches as well but it wasn't obvious to most people.

I personally think games should be allowed to grow a bit before buffs/nerfs happen. If they're fixes for things that were blatantly unintended thats not a big deal such as fixes to the wakeup attacks allowing you to actually do them.

Yes, they technically received patches through arcade revisions but the updates were much less frequent then they are now. And despite these changes, these games are still broken.

I agree with your second point to an extent. But it becomes a question of what was and was not intended, which only NRS knows. Christ, there were people on this forum demanding that Flash and Ares get to keep their resets. The same went for Cyrax and Smoke players early in MK's life.

 

[Briggs8417]

WoundCowboy thank you...just thanks

 

[Big Pampering]

So with the latest gameplay changes, we have been hearing more about "how much of a joke this game is" and why patching early is a shitty thing. In my opinion, everyone is overreacting. The biggest changes so far have been:
- Sinestro buffs
-Shazam buffs
-Deathstroke nerfs
-Flash buffs
-Catwoman buff

With all of the whining going on you would think that the game has been COMPLETELY changed multiple times over. Other changes were either system fixes or character specific error corrections (Sinestro's throw, Aquaman's nearly safe low scoop). I may have missed some but you get the point. While the patches are technically different versions of the game, the fact is that most of them are just making minor adjustments or fixes. More to come.

you forgot the wake up invinsibility, that might be the biggest change to the game.

 

[Konqrr]

You guys seem to forget the reason the changes are made.

#1 is obviously to fix broken things
#2 is to correct something that was unintended for the design of the character or game engine

 

[KidGrave]

Patching isn't the problem. Its good to have bugs and such errors cleared up or for certain quality of life changes to be implemented, but my qualm is with the fact that such a new game should have been given time to develop before and character or balance changes were put into place. This is because given the appropriate time, people would find ways to play and ways to deal with certain characters and setups but if changes are thrown left and right there isn't as much development going on and things get patched for no reason in the sense that answers to the supposed problem would naturally occur within the community. A game's change/progression should be left, for the most part, to the players imo.

 

[godlessmode]

I think you covered the positive aspects of patching. But, whether it's intentional or not, you glossed over, and or brushed aside the negative aspects. Perhaps this is due to your... unique perspective relating to this game, or maybe you just have extremely rose colored sunglasses.

Some of the cons that have not been acknowledged here:

Fighting games in particular are extremely competition focused, which in turn increases the emotional investment in game minutia. Adjustments to the minutia are thus prone to emotional reactions.

Fighting games have 'professional' competitors. They have money riding on the line, and a significant time investment in their success. Adjustments to the game can trivialize their time investment, and impact their bottom line from a financial perspective.

And finally, early patching is generally frowned on by long time FGC members, not because of some "lets all harken back to the arcade days of lore" thought process, but instead (at least from the informed members) from the perspective of adjusting variables in a hugely unknown environment.

When looking at historical incidents of early patching you see very frequent cases where "knee-jerk" patches resulted in changes which were questionable within the greater perspective of the game (think Kabal/Scorpion mk9, Sentinel from UMVC3, etc.)

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Patching isn't the problem. Its good to have bugs and such errors cleared up or for certain quality of life changes to be implemented, but my qualm is with the fact that such a new game should have been given time to develop before and character or balance changes were put into place. This is because given the appropriate time, people would find ways to play and ways to deal with certain characters and setups but if changes are thrown left and right there isn't as much development going on and things get patched for no reason in the sense that answers to the supposed problem would naturally occur within the community. A game's change/progression should be left, for the most part, to the players imo.

Right, and my point is that none of the changes implemented so far have changed the game that much.

I think you covered the positive aspects of patching. But, whether it's intentional or not, you glossed over, and or brushed aside the negative aspects. Perhaps this is due to your... unique perspective relating to this game, or maybe you just have extremely rose colored sunglasses.

Some of the cons that have not been acknowledged here:

Fighting games in particular are extremely competition focused, which in turn increases the emotional investment in game minutia. Adjustments to the minutia are thus prone to emotional reactions.

Fighting games have 'professional' competitors. They have money riding on the line, and a significant time investment in their success. Adjustments to the game can trivialize their time investment, and impact their bottom line from a financial perspective.

And finally, early patching is generally frowned on by long time FGC members, not because of some "lets all harken back to the arcade days of lore" thought process, but instead (at least from the informed members) from the perspective of adjusting variables in a hugely unknown environment.

When looking at historical incidents of early patching you see very frequent cases where "knee-jerk" patches resulted in changes which were questionable within the greater perspective of the game (think Kabal/Scorpion mk9, Sentinel from UMVC3, etc.)

See the above. I am a tournament player that travels and spends money on the game and I don't feel like I have had to relearn the game because of these changes. Honestly, the thing that has changed the game are the DLC characters because I am forced to learn more MUs.

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

So with the latest gameplay changes, we have been hearing more about "how much of a joke this game is" and why patching early is a shitty thing. In my opinion, everyone is overreacting. The biggest changes so far have been:
- Sinestro buffs
-Shazam buffs
-Deathstroke nerfs
-Flash buffs
-Catwoman buff

With all of the whining going on you would think that the game has been COMPLETELY changed multiple times over. Other changes were either system fixes or character specific error corrections (Sinestro's throw, Aquaman's nearly safe low scoop). I may have missed some but you get the point. While the patches are technically different versions of the game, the fact is that most of them are just making minor adjustments or fixes. More to come.

The day 1 patch nerf to Doomsday was a big deal. And his Body Splash nerf were also a big deal as well. Don't forget those.