Where is the moral outrage over Xbox One`s DRM?

[Pig Of The Hut]

He would not sound like he did if he was just starting now so no that's not a point to discuss...

But the risk involved is a major part of what really killed music not p2p...overinflation of the market false return due to the early 90s where everyone rebought the music as cds ...tons of start up buying into everything...it was like the dotcom crash later...or the housing bubble...p2p happened at the right time to keep it relevent...but was not a cause...

And if we are saying 2chains is better then Hendrix I will beat a puppy with a kitten...

Sent under duress.

yea but today's version of hendrix is out there and he'll never get a shot unless he's bieber

Also i missed something here, what is 2chains?

 

[Saint Op Omen]

Music that could save music you or i will never hear because no industry exec will invest in it or back it unless its Ke$ha or beiber

Truth is the quick sell will always be there...but the same applies here where people bought into the big flashy quick sell thinking it was new and fresh and shiny...nobody bought into the good music that is out there they stick with big biz...
This is why what happens with xbox is a big deal...not over piracy..

Sent under duress.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Well the music industry is strange now and how it ahs always worked, for instance one thing many forget is that artist such as Elvis didn't really write much of their own music other wrote it for him. This highly relevant in the pop, country, and hip-hop genres, it is processed music written and done by others and the vocalist are all that provide just their voice. Its all the commercialization that killed the industry mostly, the publishers and companies like Ticket Master take all the money and the artist gets shit.

Great musicians to this day still get discovered and still have their freedom of making what they want, mostly what you see in the Metal genre as well as some pop artists like Lady Ga Ga(I know so many hate her). Many of these artists are also starting to walk away form there major labels and going independent in order to do what they want, that is why Manson is no longer with Nothing INterscope

and nin as well

FTR gaga is extremely talented

Which is also something interesting to me, Take Katy Perry For example. She's an incredible vocal talent, artist and writer, but you know what? The world would never know it because what she is forced to produce is decided by 8 execs sitting around a table eating salmon at 10am but early on and her unplugged stuff shows actually shes extremely talented. The industry know is taking raw talent like her and forcing product

Also you're right writers > artists in terms of revenue

and yea ticketmaster is a problem

 

[Saint Op Omen]

yea but today's version of hendrix is out there and he'll never get a shot unless he's bieber

Also i missed something here, what is 2chains?

A horrible thing that calls itself music...
But the next hendrix would get a shot if people supported him...distribution is easier now then ever and a bunch of acts got famous by making it localy and online first...many hiphop acts have been signed because they sold tons for shows and merch localy and made a name for themselves good music or not...
Maybe its a easy excuse for hendrix2 but if your first move is to show up at a major label like "sign me" he's a dope anyway...

Sent under duress.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

A horrible thing that calls itself music...
But the next hendrix would get a shot if people supported him...distribution is easier now then ever and a bunch of acts got famous by making it localy and online first...many hiphop acts have been signed because they sold tons for shows and merch localy and made a name for themselves good music or not...
Maybe its a easy excuse for hendrix2 but if your first move is to show up at a major label like "sign me" he's a dope anyway...

Sent under duress.

lol

Well one thing ill tell you thats happening nationwide now is "pay to play"

Yes, Pay to Play.

Around the time last year i stopped doing 70-80 shows a year this was quickly becoming the new fad if you will.

Nashville, Atlanta, etc were charging local bands $300-500 for them to play there for 1-2 hours.

 

[deathblooms2k4]

The anti-poverty policies of Microsoft are simply astounding. I only Sony doesn`t follow suit.

I live in Mexico. And I`d like to speak for every gamer living in a country that isn`t as widely developed as the US, Japan, and most European nations.

There are plenty of places where gaming is very popular, retail and used, where internet service is completely unreliable. I`ve had periods (living in one of the biggest cities in the world) where I`ve lost my connection for 2 to 3 weeks at a time. Now game console makers want to punish me for not living in the right country?

It`s easy for people to look around at their modern societies and think, "Well it`s 2013. If you don`t have a broadband connection, get with the times bro!" Excuse me, but the world is not that simple. Every country has internet that functions differently, run by different companies. Some residential areas in this country are STILL waiting for internet service to even become available, signing petitions to get the companies out there because it isn`t seen as economically viable to provide it out there.

The majority of people I know don`t even own credit cards. Many of them don`t have bank accounts. But they`re still members of a modern society. This country has large tech plaza`s full of gaming areas where people play console games. And there is NO internet connection in these places. I guess we can just tell all my friends who work downtown to look for a new job.

How about those families all over the world that go through tough financial times? Life is unpredictable. When console prices come down in a few years, and a minimum wage family can buy an Xbox One for their kid for Christmas to make him happy, are we to punish that family and child because they have a bad month and can`t pay the internet bill? If the cat knocks the modem off the wall and it breaks, are gamers forced to not play while they wait for repair service?

And how will this affect the rental system? If publishers are allowed to lock their games from being lent, or requiring charges to be paid just to play a game that`s been installed already, we are only punishing the poorest gamers who can`t afford to pay over $100 for a new game. Yes, in Mexico, retail games sell for $90 to $110 US dollars. While living costs such as rent and utilities are much lower. It`s already hard enough to be a gamer in many countries. Now we`re just gonna make it harder.

We should all be offended as gamers and consumers in general.

I don't like Microsofts piracy/used games solution. But it's their product and their choice to do what they want with it. I respect that. If you don't like it don't buy it! It's that simple it's not an issue of fairness as you're not being forced to buy it. If you were forced to buy the product and then you couldn't use it because of restrictions out of your control I can see it as an issue of fairness but this is absolutely not the case. PS4 will have DRM, I hate to burst everyone's bubble, the game manufacturers know the numbers they see how much money they lose from Gamestop reselling used games and how much more there is to make if everyone is forced to buy new. It's not Microsofts responsibility to wait for countries with underdeveloped infrastructures to catch up before they release product designs. But I will say that the Bill/Melinda Gates foundation has done more good for underdeveloped countries in the world than the majority of tech companies in existence.

This outrage reminds me of when the EU was flipping out at Microsoft for bundling their own internet browser (IE) with their own operating system. It wasn't "fair" to the other web browser developers out there. Oddly enough chrome comes with android, safari with IOS, firefox with most linux distros, etc. And now chrome and firefox have a large portion of the web browsing Market Share and not because Microsoft started being "fair" but because they have developed products that people like.

TLDR; Microsoft is not supported by tax dollars, they can do what they want with the products they develop.

 

[Saint Op Omen]

lol

Well one thing ill tell you thats happening nationwide now is "pay to play"

Yes, Pay to Play.

Around the time last year i stopped doing 70-80 shows a year this was quickly becoming the new fad if you will.

Nashville, Atlanta, etc were charging local bands $300-500 for them to play there for 1-2 hours.

Wow that sucks out here (denver) most of what we do is buy the tickets and resell them...or in our case presell them then buy what we need...give away cds and make $ from merch and people buying the free cd to show support...its not grand but we also are not trying to "make it"...could have years ago but my son was more important to me...

Sent under duress.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Wow that sucks out here (denver) most of what we do is buy the tickets and resell them...or in our case presell them then buy what we need...give away cds and make $ from merch and people buying the free cd to show support...its not grand but we also are not trying to "make it"...could have years ago but my son was more important to me...

Sent under duress.

Yea that was the national norm anywhere and made sense really but now this is quickly spreading to NY, orlando, everywhere

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

PS4 will have DRM, I hate to burst everyone's bubble,

Yep

Also xbox one is like divekick/ufgt

if you dont like it don't support/buy it

.......too soon?

 

[Saint Op Omen]

Yea that was the national norm anywhere and made sense really but now this is quickly spreading to NY, orlando, everywhere

Lol...hope that gets cut short...
At least it won't affect me much as my friends run most the places I get shows at and they are already making a lot of $...if it wasn't for the shows many of the places wouldn't stay open...charging people to play out here will just mean less shows...

But anyway back to xbox ....boooooooooo

Sent under duress.

 

[TheSpore]

lol

Well one thing ill tell you thats happening nationwide now is "pay to play"

Yes, Pay to Play.

Around the time last year i stopped doing 70-80 shows a year this was quickly becoming the new fad if you will.

Nashville, Atlanta, etc were charging local bands $300-500 for them to play there for 1-2 hours.

That's jacked up, but it makes sense, a club still wants to make profit and if say a band doesn't bring in any people they at least get aid for the night.

Getting your work out there is easier today, with you tube and the more affordable recording equipment now a days along with digtal distribution a band or artist no longer has to even et a record deal.

 

[Saint Op Omen]

That's jacked up, but it makes sense, a club still wants to make profit and if say a band doesn't bring in any people they at least get aid for the night.

Getting your work out there is easier today, with you tube and the more affordable recording equipment now a days along with digtal distribution a band or artist no longer has to even et a record deal.

Yeah it just seems overly greedy we will buy maybe 3-400 in tickets and get the $ back plus...they still get paid for that...if they make you pay & buy the tickets that's just horrible ...but if they make you pay and take the gate I have no reason to sell tickets...& I get way more people to go then they can...so that's less $ on drinks and such...just seems shady...

Sent under duress.

 

[aldazo]

...almost every one i knew had some type of gaming pc or modded ps3, and thats what scares M$ and sony, EVERYONE i knew had a modded ps3 or xbox in Domincan republic, and it ruins it for the people who didn't, this is more a counter to piracy, and limiting the used game market, and gamers are the collateral.

It isn't "more a counter piracy" policy, Latin America like Africa and other regions have NEVER been a potential market for Sony or Microsoft simple bexause we don't have money, the policy could stop piracy but never will increase the sells, at least not in a significant amount. The real issue is that M$ wants to take control of the gaming experience and make profits from it, that's the real issue, no piracy.

 

[Saint Op Omen]

It isn't "more a counter piracy" policy, Latin America like Africa and other regions have NEVER been a potential market for Sony or Microsoft simple bexause we don't have money, the policy could stop piracy but never will increase the sells, at least not in a significant amount. The real issue is that M$ wants to take control of the gaming experience and make profits from it, that's the real issue, no piracy.

If you steal thing because you can't buy them heavy drm does not make you have $ to buy it...and its funny MS & others don't get that...they will either not buy it or find a way around it which they will no matter how secure you make it...

Sent under duress.

 

[TheSpore]

Yeah it just seems overly greedy we will buy maybe 3-400 in tickets and get the $ back plus...they still get paid for that...if they make you pay & buy the tickets that's just horrible ...but if they make you pay and take the gate I have no reason to sell tickets...& I get way more people to go then they can...so that's less $ on drinks and such...just seems shady...

Sent under duress.

Well in the local scene it makes some sense, because typically there is a cover charge and the artist will take a cut as well as the venue and if the house is full the venue will make more with drink sales, but if say no one shows up well then the venue still takes home some money. It costs money to keep a venue open for one night and if they just allow a band to perform that bring no one in the door, then the venue makes nothing. In this case though they take home a cut and if people do show they get more and the band gets a cut and the exposure they need. When trying to get big a band needs exposure more than anything and it has to be expected they will perform and get nothing for it. Once your name is established and have a following then one can start to expect payment, but in the beginning you have to work and establish your name.

 

[TheSpore]

The reason we all need to exercise complaint on MS is because if we don't stand for it will become a standard in the industry. This is how standards get formed.

 

[Killzone]

i only support microsoft because of gears and fable. if these two franchises move to ps4, I'm done with microsoft.

*Facepalm*

 

[aj1701]

The moral outrage comes from our industry, our world which has been open and healthy for so long, closing itself off to the lower class by implementing new restrictions to access that disproportionately effect the poor.

One console is not the world closing off. And the restrictions don't disproportionately affect the poor. Quite frankly, if people make so little that these changes are a big deal, then perhaps gaming should not be a focus of their life.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Quite frankly, if people make so little that these changes are a big deal, then perhaps gaming should not be a focus of their life.

Exactly. If you don't make enough money to constantly pay for an internet connection month to month and live in an area of the world where that connection is always available, you shouldn't be enjoying gaming. You're so right!

 

[Saint Op Omen]

Well in the local scene it makes some sense, because typically there is a cover charge and the artist will take a cut as well as the venue and if the house is full the venue will make more with drink sales, but if say no one shows up well then the venue still takes home some money. It costs money to keep a venue open for one night and if they just allow a band to perform that bring no one in the door, then the venue makes nothing. In this case though they take home a cut and if people do show they get more and the band gets a cut and the exposure they need. When trying to get big a band needs exposure more than anything and it has to be expected they will perform and get nothing for it. Once your name is established and have a following then one can start to expect payment, but in the beginning you have to work and establish your name.

Well the way it is here right not we pay the venue up front for tickets...everyone that proforms does...so they are already paid if nobody shows up they already are paid for a full house...its up to us to sell tickets to make our $ back...so they don't pay us we pay them but can get the $ back plus if we sell tickets..

Sent under duress.

 

[aldazo]

If you steal thing because you can't buy them heavy drm does not make you have $ to buy it...and its funny MS & others don't get that...they will either not buy it or find a way around it which they will no matter how secure you make it...

Sent under duress.

Exactly, but even those that have modded ps3 don't "steal" because they buy it first and then pay additional money to get the thing modded so it never hurts M$ directly, the companies affected are those that make games, and because of that M$ sells get affected (nobody would want to make games for machines that get modded and play piracy games). But as you said it, if I have no money to buy a game then eradicating piracy wouldn't give me the money needed. Of course it will force me to balance my budget to spend less money in other thing so I can save for the games, but to be honest few people will do that 'cause they just don't have money enough in a lot of regions around the world.

 

[aj1701]

The only thing I like that is Microsoft is the 360. I even hate Windows (Using it atm saddens me, I'd much rather be on Ubuntu).

I ran my own Linux server for ten years and on my desktop for almost three. I'm now happy to pay for ms' operating systems.

 

[TheSpore]

One console is not the world closing off. And the restrictions don't disproportionately affect the poor. Quite frankly, if people make so little that these changes are a big deal, then perhaps gaming should not be a focus of their life.

Yeah because entertainment is only reserved for the elite right, so only rich people are allowed to enjoy life and relax, I guess they are suppose to just be working all the time...

Well the way it is here right not we pay the venue up front for tickets...everyone that proforms does...so they are already paid if nobody shows up they already are paid for a full house...its up to us to sell tickets to make our $ back...so they don't pay us we pay them but can get the $ back plus if we sell tickets..

Sent under duress.

I see your point though, it is kinda of a jacked up policy, this is why I likely won't even bother with bars and clubs if I go back into the music scene again. With Social networks being so good today and other ways one can get there name out there for much less cost, also it would be better to just network with other artists anyway to start establishing a following.

 

[Saint Op Omen]

Exactly, but even those that have modded ps3 don't "steal" because they buy it first and then pay additional money to get the thing modded so it never hurts M$ directly, the companies affected are those that make games, and because of that M$ sells get affected (nobody would want to make games for machines that get modded and play piracy games). But as you said it, if I have no money to buy a game then eradicating piracy wouldn't give me the money needed. Of course it will force me to balance my budget to spend less money in other thing so I can save for the games, but to be honest few people will do that 'cause they just don't have money enough in a lot of regions around the world.

Yeah I agree it affects games mostly...but people buy the original start up with plans for long term stealing...& will not start buying more games because of it...any drm they come up will be cracked in a month...if a person can build it a person can break it...and the harder it is the more joy they will get from doing it...
They are chasing ghost sales and any smart pub would stick with the larger install base anyway...or multiplat...and if one side sells more then that's where the focus will be...if nobody in your area has a xbox because of online then ps4 would win there and sell more games...

Sent under duress.

 

[TheSpore]

I know everyone disagrees here, but is Sony proves to not be much better, Nintendo will end up taking the next gen people are just not ready to give up there rights.