Match-up Discussion Post-patch Match up List and Discussion

[G4S KT]

anyone play any good scorpions yet?

I don't imagine the MU is as bad as batgirl but doesn't look like a cake walk either.

 

[Crimson Panther]

anyone play any good scorpions yet?

I don't imagine the MU is as bad as batgirl but doesn't look like a cake walk either.

Not many actually. I think it's another patience MU for GL. Right now feels like a solid 5-5.

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[Crimson Panther]

catwoman:

the recent buff to her f1 into an overhead is pretty good but not that big of a deal from a neutral game standpoint. When you're in neutral game always block high; her overhead combo starters have good range but her lows do not. everyone likes to up-play her "new 50/50" but she can only do it if she's at advantage right next to you (after a close jump in or hard knockdown for example). She does have the whip trip move, but I wouldn't really worry about it, just try to block it on reaction if you see it; if you do you can punish with lift since it's -33.

Catwoman gets straight up murdered in the neutral game by GL. She has to take huge risks by doing stuff like EX cat dash on a read (which can be blocked an punished) or jumping at you with j2 (which has a really good hitbox but ever leaving the ground against GL is taking your life into your own hands). All her normals except f1 are stubby as fuck so you have free reign to press b1 and 223 at their ranges as well.

zone her with a combination of air rockets and trait+chaingun while baiting EX catdash. Catwoman players love to throw that move around so blow them up for it. when she's a little closer switch gears to using your superior ground normals or jumping at her (she has no good AA either).

You can almost do whatever you want in the neutral game.

Things become a little more difficult when she lands a hit and knocks you down. Her f1/b1 can be a hard to block as you're getting up; they're pretty quick but the animations are drastically different so you can tell immediately which way to block. Or you can cut the bullshit and go for a wake up lift, either way.

Beyond that she has a bunch of shenanigans on wake up that I'm not too familiar with. One I know of is where she'll catdash over your body and then EX it which causes her to reverse direction and hit from the other side. This is fucking stupid because you can just neutral down guard both sides but I still see it done.

tl;dr

she can't do shit until she lands a hit

shoot her with air rockets and trait+chaingun while baiting and punishing catdash - 1/2 to full screen.

use your superior ground normals and jump at her from 1/2 screen and closer, be careful of her j2 from here though.

you must defend when up close, but she doesn't have significant advantage on anything so mashing d1 isn't a bad idea.

you must deal with her mix ups and shenanigans if you get knocked down.

I'm gonna put this post in the MU specific section of my other thread. Good stuff.

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[Orochi]

Just like batgirl with scorpion whoever has the life lead has the advantage and can just bait the other for more mistakes to punish, can't jump on scorpion probably a good rule of thumb.

 

[G4S KT]

Forward jump 1 beats batmans jump 2 when timed correctly, going for a full combo with this he'll start jumping less making you have more control of the match, once you have the life lead you can just zone him, check my most recent video I have some matches vs some pretty good batmans. Play on metropolis rooftop for an advantage with interactables.

Will scorpion hit you in the air with teleport if you jump + air rocket?

 

[DeathAndHealing]

Figured Id come here to ask, as GL mains what do you all think Grundy should/could do to make it a better MU for him?

Also, who would you say beats or goes even with GL? Im looking for a counter pick since Im beginning to notice people start counter picking me which is kinda shitty since I just get machine gun'd in the face over and over and over and over, lol. Please do not suggest Superman or Batgirl as I already played them out and found them a little boring.

 

[Crimson Panther]

Figured Id come here to ask, as GL mains what do you all think Grundy should/could do to make it a better MU for him?

Also, who would you say beats or goes even with GL? Im looking for a counter pick since Im beginning to notice people start counter picking me which is kinda shitty since I just get machine gun'd in the face over and over and over and over, lol. Please do not suggest Superman or Batgirl as I already played them out and found them a little boring.

It's between a 6-4 or 7-3 in favor of GL. Only hope is the GL player messes up and corners himself. And practically the whole cast is 5-5. Look at the OP.

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[Orochi]

Will scorpion hit you in the air with teleport if you jump + air rocket?

it depends on the timing, if scorpion does it as you are coming down yes, if he does it too soon or low he won't but he will have the advantage as you're dropping on the ground. Anyway this matchup is getting more annoying the better the scorpions get. Lantern's might works well so far since scorpion has to be on the offensive most of the time, of course when he's not porting.

 

[G4S KT]

I watched REOs scorpion and it gave me a pretty good idea about what he's capable of in the right hands and this MU for GL will hinge on a couple things:

The first and most important is if scorps teleport has any invincibility on startup BEFORE he leaves the screen (you know, during the poof). If not, GL can take away one of scorpions most powerful tools which is his Bird-Lao aerial mix up when he jumps at you. If lift can catch him clean in the air, even out of the start up of the teleport, GL is in good shape.

The second thing is whether scorpion can punish a max-range lift on block. I imagine he can with either teleport or spear, maybe both but I am unable to test.

The third thing is whether or not a max height rocket will cause teleport to whiff underneath it. If it can then it might be possible to throw air rockets in this MU. Otherwise, forget about using them along with all other zoning tools.

The good thing about scorpion is that he has nothing to control space on the screen, the whole character is based around ariel mix ups and harassing you into leaving the ground and then punishing you anywhere on screen for doing it (which he does very well). If GL can keep him grounded then he can use his superior ground normals to bully scorpion

I imagine that this match will almost never be at any farther away than half screen; scorpion will be fighting to get in and GL will be fighting to keep him at b1 range and max lift range. Scorpion has no tools to zone and can't be zoned so there's no full screen game to be had here.

This is the first match where I really believe that push-blocking is a thing that GL will HAVE to do in every match. other characters that require push blocking have to fight their way in, but scorpion can do EX teleport to get in for free whenever he wants. It's probably a good idea to pushblock it, trading meter-for-meter since once he's in his mix ups are STUPID.

 

[G4S KT]

it depends on the timing, if scorpion does it as you are coming down yes, if he does it too soon or low he won't but he will have the advantage as you're dropping on the ground. Anyway this matchup is getting more annoying the better the scorpions get. Lantern's might works well so far since scorpion has to be on the offensive most of the time, of course when he's not porting.

in order for him to hit you on the way down, will you have had to miss the rocket? what if he blocks one?

It's probably going to turn out to be a bad idea anyway, since as soon as anyone leaves the ground a good scorpion will hit them with teleport.

 

[CheapEddie]

I watched REOs scorpion and it gave me a pretty good idea about what he's capable of in the right hands and this MU for GL will hinge on a couple things:

The first and most important is if scorps teleport has any invincibility on startup BEFORE he leaves the screen (you know, during the poof). If not, GL can take away one of scorpions most powerful tools which is his Bird-Lao aerial mix up when he jumps at you. If lift can catch him clean in the air, even out of the start up of the teleport, GL is in good shape.

The second thing is whether scorpion can punish a max-range lift on block. I imagine he can with either teleport or spear, maybe both but I am unable to test.

The third thing is whether or not a max height rocket will cause teleport to whiff underneath it. If it can then it might be possible to throw air rockets in this MU. Otherwise, forget about using them along with all other zoning tools.

The good thing about scorpion is that he has nothing to control space on the screen, the whole character is based around ariel mix ups and harassing you into leaving the ground and then punishing you anywhere on screen for doing it (which he does very well). If GL can keep him grounded then he can use his superior ground normals to bully scorpion

I imagine that this match will almost never be at any farther away than half screen; scorpion will be fighting to get in and GL will be fighting to keep him at b1 range and max lift range. Scorpion has no tools to zone and can't be zoned so there's no full screen game to be had here.

This is the first match where I really believe that push-blocking is a thing that GL will HAVE to do in every match. other characters that require push blocking have to fight their way in, but scorpion can do EX teleport to get in for free whenever he wants. It's probably a good idea to pushblock it, trading meter-for-meter since once he's in his mix ups are STUPID.

Alright, i`ve tested it and:
1. If u got right timing with ur LM, he wont be able to dodge it with teleport since it has NO invincibility frames on startup at all. If ur good in AA, his random teleport mixups wont be a problem.
Just in case: Scorpion can do his teleport instantly so u need to block low anyway, this thing might be dangerous.
2. He can punish it with both teleport and spear, but imao, id always punish it with spear. Its much easier and the only problem that Scorpion needs meter to make combo from it.
3. Ya, it whiffs, but only if Scorpion did teleport when u only launched rocket. It seems to be some kind of guessing game: Will GL do naked jump or try high height air-dildo. Still, id really prefer to stay on the ground. And i think, instant air-dildo is not bad in this match, but no abuse, just 1-2 using. And ofc, u can always use meter to explode ground dildo to make free GG-check, just to know. Still, u have to be extra careful with range.
4. He doesnt get free get-in with ex-teleport since it goes with pushback. id say, in some situations u might even check him with LM.

 

[ChaoticShdwMonk]

How do you deal with dday's supernova without using meter?

 

[GGA Wafflez]

green lantern vs....
superman 4-6 (could be worse)
Killer Frost 4-6
Grundy 5-5

 

[G4S KT]

green lantern vs....
superman 4-6 (could be worse)
Killer Frost 4-6
Grundy 5-5

Canttellifserious.jpg

 

[Orochi]

Nice grundy 5-5 lol, superman frost id say about even.

@ Chaotic - You can dash forward and dodge the normal super nova then punish, the EX you also can dash but it has tighter timing because of green lantern's slow short dash, even offline it's hard to pull off consistently let alone online, so our main option is to MB B3 and hope they don't do normal or have their armor trait. This is one of the reasons why doomsday is one of our harder match ups imo.

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

I'd have to say that Green Lantern vs Scorpion is a 6-4 matchup is GL's favor. Scorpion can't use his teleport after he's been knocked down by GL because of chain gun defeats his wakeup. Also, his air game is destroyed by lift (duh). Scorpion's only hope of starting offense in this matchup is mindgames with hellfire. I know it's early and he's getting nerfed soon, but I only see this matchup getting better for Green Lantern.

 

[GGA Wafflez]

also, lift as an anti air is a bill of goods...

 

[afrozilla86]

Just had to point out: G.l does better than 5/5 on Grundy, and supes is pretty much a 5/5 offline.
Also has anyone else got a bunch of hate mail about picking "nooblantern" I just find it funny like any character in this game is even 1/4 as hard as learning bbcs litchi or Carl.

 

[ChaoticShdwMonk]

Also has anyone else got a bunch of hate mail about picking "nooblantern"

At least once per xbox live session lol. Usually it pertains to using the same combos as everyone else (I assume they don't know what setups and bnbs are)

 

[Crimson Panther]

Just had to point out: G.l does better than 5/5 on Grundy, and supes is pretty much a 5/5 offline.
Also has anyone else got a bunch of hate mail about picking "nooblantern" I just find it funny like any character in this game is even 1/4 as hard as learning bbcs litchi or Carl.

Yea it's 6-4. Possibly worse.

And yea, lots of love letters in my inbox lol.

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[GGA Wafflez]

how is grundy not 5-5 w/ lantern? cause of zoning? machine gun is good in the MU... but just block it and dash in... talk about one of the easiest projectiles to avoid. idk what grundys you guys have been playing, but they must not use WC cancels, cause those are great for air fireballs and stopping b13. 5-5, and as grundy's execution gets better, it could be worse. this is an absolute dark horse character that no1 knows about.

as for superman, please look at the frame data and GL's dash and tell me that f23 breath isnt fucked up. you have ONE frame to d1 if he tries todo another f23 breath to possibly trade OR get the hit into lift. superman can bait the d1 and whiff punish into 40%, guess how much you get off of d1 lift, like less than 30%. superman touches you, and you are immediately put into a trap secondly, his zoning is very good and barely punishable by air rocket (air laser midscreen really only punished zoning tool of supes). his air dash makes lift shit, and his back dash is EXTREMELY good. what "supermen" are you playing, and are they good players? i play one almost 3 times a week and cant see it being any better than 6-4 superman. why are people downplaying this character? he is ridiculous.

 

[Endeavor]

how is grundy not 5-5 w/ lantern? cause of zoning? machine gun is good in the MU... but just block it and dash in... talk about one of the easiest projectiles to avoid. idk what grundys you guys have been playing, but they must not use WC cancels, cause those are great for air fireballs and stopping b13. 5-5, and as grundy's execution gets better, it could be worse. this is an absolute dark horse character that no1 knows about.

as for superman, please look at the frame data and GL's dash and tell me that f23 breath isnt fucked up. you have ONE frame to d1 if he tries todo another f23 breath to possibly trade OR get the hit into lift. superman can bait the d1 and whiff punish into 40%, guess how much you get off of d1 lift, like less than 30%. superman touches you, and you are immediately put into a trap secondly, his zoning is very good and barely punishable by air rocket (air laser midscreen really only punished zoning tool of supes). his air dash makes lift shit, and his back dash is EXTREMELY good. what "supermen" are you playing, and are they good players? i play one almost 3 times a week and cant see it being any better than 6-4 superman. why are people downplaying this character? he is ridiculous.

We agree on superman, f23 wrecks gls shit for free, and because of gls teribad movement, he is free to supermans zoning. Though I have actually found a decent way to get out of f23 by using s123, its a better option imo than d1 because of the fact thatyou can full combo Superman out of f23 and if he blocks the string you can cancel into minigun. The flaw with this string is that if he back dashes he can still whiff punish you. I'm not really sure about Grundy, I have fought a really good Grundy, but I usually come out on top, but only by a little, usually the Jailhouse reset is how I end up taking it, but i have won simply by zoning, though I have also lost a lot in the set that me and the Grundy played as well so its hard to say, though I guess we will see how the match is as GL gets nerfed in two weeks. The plus side is Supes is suppose to get nerfed too....if you can call that a plus side...

 

[THTB]

Grundy fares no worse than 6-4. Trait up on GL = Grundy is pinned down hardcore. No trait = GL has to really be careful with his miniguns. If Grundy is too far away, a minigun will mean Grundy gets MB swamp hands if he makes it whiff. And if he's too close, he can jump over it and nail you for 70%. Luckily, his floaty jump means aa LM is easy as all fucks.

Once Grundy gets a life lead, if he has health or defense boost up, good luck.

It'll get worse for us over time.

 

[Crimson Panther]

how is grundy not 5-5 w/ lantern? cause of zoning? machine gun is good in the MU... but just block it and dash in... talk about one of the easiest projectiles to avoid. idk what grundys you guys have been playing, but they must not use WC cancels, cause those are great for air fireballs and stopping b13. 5-5, and as grundy's execution gets better, it could be worse. this is an absolute dark horse character that no1 knows about.

as for superman, please look at the frame data and GL's dash and tell me that f23 breath isnt fucked up. you have ONE frame to d1 if he tries todo another f23 breath to possibly trade OR get the hit into lift. superman can bait the d1 and whiff punish into 40%, guess how much you get off of d1 lift, like less than 30%. superman touches you, and you are immediately put into a trap secondly, his zoning is very good and barely punishable by air rocket (air laser midscreen really only punished zoning tool of supes). his air dash makes lift shit, and his back dash is EXTREMELY good. what "supermen" are you playing, and are they good players? i play one almost 3 times a week and cant see it being any better than 6-4 superman. why are people downplaying this character? he is ridiculous.

Changed the Supes MU. That was based off old matches and I agree he can do almost whatever he wants in this MU so 6-4 in favor of Supes and that's at best for GL.

I've played many Grundys, a lot of them very good. Midscreen it just feels GL has enough advantage to call it 6-4 with an in and out tactic from zoning to quick combo then back to zoning. When Grundy gets GL in the corner however that number flips and possibly to even 7-3 for Grundy. Any good Grundy player can keep GL pinned until death. MB B3/F3 can be baited and that's pretty much his best option besides pushblock which doesn't help much.

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[GGA Wafflez]

Ok, and on that superman MU, i said AT BEST for GL it's 6-4 supes. (take into consideration that GL's b13 is backdashable and playing this character will only become harder as the game evolves (if the game evolves luuuul)). I think i am just really salty at how poor defense is in this game, because of the insane offense. Now on that grundy MU, ESPECIALLY w/ his chip trait on, machine isnt shit. blocking it is not a big deal w/o the trait anyway. so full screen GL wins, but he doesnt take it free because of ex swamp hands. Now, when Grundy is in WC range, and you machine gun and he blocks, he can get it fast and start his stupid shit (that is, WC, WC cancels into 112 overhead/low). Another thing, ONE knockdown and you are in his vortex of WC, which beats backdash, lift, even wakeup machine gun, or WC cancel into d2 or whatever to stop you from jumping. This is a huge problem, especially on ex WC. Now, i may make this MU sound like it's in grundy's favor, BUT, GL, with proper spacing and reads, can blow up grundy and can hold a lead well.

Questions, comments, concerns??