General/Other Flash Buff/fix thread v3.0

[Hiltzy85]

Alright, so there have obviously been quite a few advances in Flash knowledge since the last buff/fix thread, and that's good. I think we should still have a place to seriously discuss what sort of buffs or fixes Flash needs to make him really competitive.

As it stands, I think the things that are an absolute no-brainer are as follows (in no particular order):

1) Fix the hitbox on all of his MID attacks that are currently crouchable.
2) Either improve the hitbox (range) on d1d2 AND/OR remove the backward movement on the string.
3) Fix Speed Dodge special so it actually starts on frame zero.
4) Fix trait cool down so it doesn't restart after a clash or super.
5) Fix or improve hitbox on flying uppercut so it doesn't go through characters when used as a wake up attack.
6) Fix (shrink) hitbox on Running Man Stance crouch AND running animation so it goes under ALL high projectiles (and not just some).

I think we can all agree that these are all entirely reasonable, except for number 1, which is absolutely necessary, for the sake of consistency. All mids in the game should not be crouchable, not just Flash's mids.

DGOD PSYCHO Zyphox SaJa Hellion_96

 

[Hiltzy85]

It's probably worth mentioning that RMS f1 goes through people who have their back in the corner if done close to them, and RMS f2 seems to be a crouchable overhead for some of the smaller characters, even if done right next to them. I'd say fixing these things is of less importance, but it's still stupid.

 

[Hellion_96]

Alright, so there have obviously been quite a few advances in Flash knowledge since the last buff/fix thread, and that's good. I think we should still have a place to seriously discuss what sort of buffs or fixes Flash needs to make him really competitive.

As it stands, I think the things that are an absolute no-brainer are as follows (in no particular order):

1) Fix the hitbox on all of his MID attacks that are currently crouchable.
2) Either improve the hitbox (range) on d1d2 AND/OR remove the backward movement on the string.
3) Fix Speed Dodge special so it actually starts on frame zero.
4) Fix trait cool down so it doesn't restart after a clash or super.
5) Fix or improve hitbox on flying uppercut so it doesn't go through characters when used as a wake up attack.
6) Fix (shrink) hitbox on Running Man Stance crouch AND running animation so it goes under ALL high projectiles (and not just some).

I think we can all agree that these are all entirely reasonable, except for number 1, which is absolutely necessary, for the sake of consistency. All mids in the game should not be crouchable, not just Flash's mids.

DGOD PSYCHO Zyphox SaJa Hellion_96

Flash has a zone where he literally cannot do anything against most characters it's around after a blocked d1d2. his b2/f2 is too slow 21 and d1 don't reach and this is where flash dies. I'd rather have a 9 frame b2 like it was than real mids. But i'd take anything at this point

 

[DGOD PSYCHO]

Alright, so there have obviously been quite a few advances in Flash knowledge since the last buff/fix thread, and that's good. I think we should still have a place to seriously discuss what sort of buffs or fixes Flash needs to make him really competitive.

As it stands, I think the things that are an absolute no-brainer are as follows (in no particular order):

1) Fix the hitbox on all of his MID attacks that are currently crouchable.
2) Either improve the hitbox (range) on d1d2 AND/OR remove the backward movement on the string.
3) Fix Speed Dodge special so it actually starts on frame zero.
4) Fix trait cool down so it doesn't restart after a clash or super.
5) Fix or improve hitbox on flying uppercut so it doesn't go through characters when used as a wake up attack.
6) Fix (shrink) hitbox on Running Man Stance crouch AND running animation so it goes under ALL high projectiles (and not just some).

I think we can all agree that these are all entirely reasonable, except for number 1, which is absolutely necessary, for the sake of consistency. All mids in the game should not be crouchable, not just Flash's mids.

DGOD PSYCHO Zyphox SaJa Hellion_96

all reasonable, how ever i think his d1d2 is fine.
not even a buffs thread, more of a hot fix.
colt fix these, these are some stupid flash problems that he should not have.

 

[Zyphox]

Alright, so there have obviously been quite a few advances in Flash knowledge since the last buff/fix thread, and that's good. I think we should still have a place to seriously discuss what sort of buffs or fixes Flash needs to make him really competitive.

As it stands, I think the things that are an absolute no-brainer are as follows (in no particular order):

1) Fix the hitbox on all of his MID attacks that are currently crouchable.
2) Either improve the hitbox (range) on d1d2 AND/OR remove the backward movement on the string.
3) Fix Speed Dodge special so it actually starts on frame zero.
4) Fix trait cool down so it doesn't restart after a clash or super.
5) Fix or improve hitbox on flying uppercut so it doesn't go through characters when used as a wake up attack.
6) Fix (shrink) hitbox on Running Man Stance crouch AND running animation so it goes under ALL high projectiles (and not just some).

I think we can all agree that these are all entirely reasonable, except for number 1, which is absolutely necessary, for the sake of consistency. All mids in the game should not be crouchable, not just Flash's mids.

DGOD PSYCHO Zyphox SaJa Hellion_96

these are things they should have fixed without buffing him IMO a buff IMO would be decrease the trait cool-down timer from 20 to whatever, make f21(here)3 less negative on block so that 1) its not as punishable and 2) you can't backdash it before 3, this is assuming all his "mids" get fixed. remove start up frames from b2, 15 to like 9-10 (he needs it) it would remove the backdashing problem, you could make b22 +1 instead or 0. another buff could be like make LC less negative, make it -11 or something, and make the Flying uppecut hit box huge so you can actually anti air LOL but the last to he can live without. but again i think you original post is more of "if should have been like this to begin with (i know you stated this in your post i was just giving examples of buffs)

 

[Hiltzy85]

all reasonable, how ever i think his d1d2 is fine.
not even a buffs thread, more of a hot fix.
colt fix these, these are some stupid flash problems that he should not have.

don't get me wrong, I think d1d2 is a very good string, but it's retarded that it moves Flash backward. Maybe it has a big phantom hitbox or something to make up for it, but still. It shouldn't move backward...at the very least it should be stationary, and I don't think it's unreasonable for it to move him forward a little bit (even if its only like a millimeter)

 

[Condottiero]

I think they should make his dashes go a bit further.

 

[SaJa]

Yeah, if he would have Shazam or BA forward dash, the flash could be so much better against zoning. However, his back dash is fine to me, if it goes too far he won't be able to back dash into b2 anymore. In full screen, running man stance can be very useful.

The only buffs I would do to flash is fix the high supposed to be mid, buff his dodge speed into something more constitent (invincible from the begining to the end, better recovery, a bit faster, same animation than the agents in matrix (lol), etc..) and I would still give the invincible stuff on his MB version. Better jumps. Fix all the bugs.

That would be fine to me, enough to stop using my secondary (BA) in tournaments. :>

 

[Hiltzy85]

I think they should make his dashes go a bit further.

I'd be fine with them leaving the distance that he travels the same, if they made them recover faster, or had him move forward or backward faster (or both).

 

[DeathAndHealing]

Make f2 10f and b22 +4 on block and I play no other character.

 

[DGOD PSYCHO]

Zyphox
What if with the Scorpion update Flash became S+++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Tier.
What would you all do?

 

[Zyphox]

Zyphox
What if with the Scorpion update Flash became S+++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Tier.
What would you all do?

well with you up playing the flash so much lets hope we get buffs....that's why you need to downplay

 

[Hiltzy85]

Zyphox
What if with the Scorpion update Flash became S+++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Tier.
What would you all do?

well I suppose I would keep playing him, and enjoy not feeling like I have to come from behind in every match I play

 

[DGOD PSYCHO]

well with you up playing the flash so much lets hope we get buffs....that's why you need to downplay

I am up playing?
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
But still, mids gotta be fixed , better phase, and a faster 22 is a must!

 

[Zyphox]

I am up playing?
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
But still, mids gotta be fixed , better phase, and a faster 22 is a must!

yeah he does, and from now on start to downplay flash is bottom 26 LOL

 

[greeneless]

Man....

 

[DGOD PSYCHO]

yeah he does, and from now on start to downplay flash is bottom 26 LOL

I will not up play, or downplay.
I will

 

[Hiltzy85]

Can we try and have a sensible discussion about what Flash's changes in 1.04 actually do for his game? I know and everybody else knows that it sucks that we can't get OTG sonic pound as easily as before, but there are other things that happened, which may or may not be good.

In my opinion, the changes don't really do anything and are largely cosmetic, so it looks like they buffed him, but they actually didn't do anything that matters.

1) 11: +7 instead of +5 on block. Great, this would be nice if 21 or 22 out of the 27 characters in the game couldn't crouch 11 at all ranges.
2) d1 and d1d2: all +1 on block now. This is nice, I guess, except that Flash can't do anything with his new +1 because all of his attacks are too short-ranged or can be crouched. The actual advantage given by a blocked d1 or d1d2 is meaningless since we can't follow up with anything (21 would be my best guess, but like 80% of the cast can duck the first hit except at point blank range, which d1d2 pushes them out of). d1d2 into 11 is also pointless because if somebody blocks d1d2 they are already crouching and 11 just goes over their head. All this really does is make it so you trade another d1 with some other character's 6f d1 instead of it beating you cleanly.
3) d2: +1 on block instead of zero. How does this help anything? It's kind of a stupid move to begin with, and it being one frame faster recovering on block now doesn't change anything. It still doesn't anti air anything because it's still like 12 or 14 frame start up or something. I guess MAYBE you could throw it out if you have a d1d2 blocked and think somebody is going to jump after, but it probably still just whiffs or something stupid.
4) b22f3: seems to have had the hitbox on the f3 part lowered so it can't be crouched by small characters like KF, Raven or catwoman anymore. It appears as though the entire hitbox for f3 has just been lowered, though, and not made bigger, because it is more difficult to use LKx4, b22 LK, b22f3 in trait combos now. Great job NRS.
5) f21: is only -7 on block (WOOOO) but is still crouchable except maybe by big guys like bane, doomsday, Lex, etc. Small characters crouch block the first fast punch, but the other two go over their head. 21(3) maybe comes out a bit faster now, but according to Hellion_96 can still be interrupted by aquaman's 7f d2, so it's still basically unusuable.
6) Lightning Charge MB: This is secretly a huge slap in the face, since on paper, being able to MB on block to be at +3 would be amazing. Unfortunately, like many of the things in the great Flash conspiracy, the second hit is crouchable, making it still punishable and generally a waste of a bar. I can't confirm whether or not you can block the first hit standing and THEN crouch and still punish, but still. It was so close to being good...At least we can now whiff punish stuff from 3/4 screen and get 30% off of it.
7) Far Sonic pound: apparently recovers 1f faster than the other versions (zero on block instead of -1). I guess this is fine. Now your 7f d1 only loses by 1f to all the 6f d1s instead of by 2f.

Now that we can't really get OTG sonic pound against any characters with good wake ups, should be just go back to MB lightning kick, 21, b22f3 lightning charge as the 1 meter combo without trait?

 

[Hellion_96]

I think the best use for MB sc is to punish backdashes seeing how they can;t punish it if they block the first hit standing. The OTG nerf out ways all his buffs His problem wasn't getting in it was staying in.

 

[Hiltzy85]

at least it doesn't seem like RMS cancel has been changed at all...b22 RMS cancel d1d2 or 21 still stuffs all reversals that aren't supers or parries.

 

[DGOD PSYCHO]

Hiltzy85
I agree with you 100%
The problem is that when people see a buff thread on flash, they immediately start paper fighting and theory fighting.
So, how can the flash community go about this.

 

[BCE]

first thing, i really cant respect all this cry about otg sonic pound, this was a BUG, it was never suposed to exist, but you all cry saying "flash needed it"
bullshit, lets give joker infinite back, he needs it, lets give batgirl hit stun reset back, she needs it, lets not take super man safe string or killer frost safe slide, they need it =]

second, i really dont understand this cry about "fix flash trait to not reset after a clash/super", if he uses or get a clash or a super with the trait inactive, his trait is intact, you guys really want is in case while you are doing your 61% trait combo, if the guy uses his clash, your trait refresh so you can use it right after the clash ? its ridiculous this idea

 

[DGOD PSYCHO]

first thing, i really cant respect all this cry about otg sonic pound, this was a BUG, it was never suposed to exist, but you all cry saying "flash needed it"
bullshit, lets give joker infinite back, he needs it, lets give batgirl hit stun reset back, she needs it, lets not take super man safe string or killer frost safe slide, they need it =]

second, i really dont understand this cry about "fix flash trait to not reset after a clash/super", if he uses or get a clash or a super with the trait inactive, his trait is intact, you guys really want is in case while you are doing your 61% trait combo, if the guy uses his clash, your trait refresh so you can use it right after the clash ? its ridiculous this idea

you have it a bit mixed up. We are saying that when trait is on cool down, and someone clashes you, the cool down timer is reset.
So lets see we are in 10 seconds of cool down, and someone clashes us, we have to wait another 20 Seconds, its a glitch that should be fixed, we are forced to wait longer for a trait thats glitched during clash. This is a glitch, and regardless needs to be fixed. 61% trait combos is done on punishes, they're not done on hit confirms, most of the time the damage is 54%-56%, while flash has taken 35% chip damage and eaten a full combo.

Okay, if it was a bug, flash can receive other buffs. No one is directly saying to give his Sonic Pound OTG back. yes, Personally lots of flash players wish it would like to be back, but to compensate, Flash was given a slap in the face, which was a duckable MB that isn't useful at all.

It's not ridiculous be a bit sensible.
Flash is a bottom 5 character at the moment, and he was hit very hard in this patch, and was given a joke to compensate with. Right now Flash is not even close to being tournament viable. The Flash is going to need a handful of buffs, or his otg back to compensate.
well over 50% of his pressure was sonic pound otgs, it kept him in some what, and even then, its still blockable, and its not like he can infinite otg you. Meaning, let him otg you, then wake up. Its actually not ridiculous for flash to still have it. Flash was hurt very bad. Lots of Flash mains feel this way because we play him, and thats how it is.
He will need a handful of buffs with out his otgs being returned. right now he can only use two combo chains, and he can't even get in still. If he gets in its STILL a gamble for being full combo punished.
Now that 50% of his rush down pressure is gone, yeah its a problem.

 

[SaJa]

Flash is the best gimmick char in the game.

 

[DGOD PSYCHO]

Flash is the best gimmick char in the game.

no way, joker is way better lol.
He's actually safe and can get in.
Gun shot +4 on block?
free dash in for joker.