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Match-up Discussion Bane Matchup Discussion

RWDY Nori

RWDY Nori

MK is kinda dope
So I got into a debate w/@A foxy Grandpa over Bane vs WW. He has access to a high level Bane, I do not have access to a high level WW so I thought I'd ask him some questions. This is the PM from us so you guys can see what I asked and what he said. Feel free to hit the lab and see if we can come up w/anything:


I don't get to travel nearly as much as I was able to in MK9 and past tournaments, so I have yet to play a very good WW and you say you have access to a high level Bane. So I'm curious, I'm an open minded person: What does WW have that shuts down Bane's armor? What's stopping me from bull dogging you? I just don't see it, and since you're the only high level WW I know of I thought I'd PM you. I'm very curious how Bane gets shut down completely in your opinion​
Nori Batousai, 23 minutes ago Edit Report
Reply

A F0xy Grampa Nerf Demander
He can never jump at her, since his jump is so slow and her D2 AA alters her hitbox so much. Her backdash is so long in Lasso Stance that none of his frametraps are gonna keep her locked down.

Both her B2 and B1 in Lasso Stance outreach pretty much everything Bane has (that isn't unsafe).

Venom in general is a bad idea because she has massive meterless damage as it is. Lvl 1 Venom debuff gives her like 55% meterless or thereabouts.

Her wake up game is arguably more devestating than Banes anti-wake up game too considering how powerful her vortex is.

She also has 2 projectiles that can be used to pick at him a little.
That shoulder charge is a combo every time because of her Lasso parry.

Her shield stance has better rushdown options than the entirity of Banes movelist too.​
 
S

ShenYuan

Noob
But if the opponent is going to Jb.3 ... in proper play, shouldnt the bane/or any cahr not press buttons? Jump back = corner. corner = yay.

3 of DS is REALLY good. but 3 will loses to dash up double punch with venom... which isnt hard to get. not saying DS 3 is a weak option just stating a response (obvious)... and eating DP isnt funny cos of its silly KD.

And I'm not sure how much bane has to fear from vortex/knockdowns,... since he can pump to venom level 2 (if pressure fails) and rising venom on wake beats crossups. He blocks J.3 from DS going for oki, i think DP (with venom is going to stuff everything including jump back) If DS wants to bait DP bane can do throw....
 
RYX

RYX

BIG PUSHER
Doombawkz said:
Whats its start-up? Also whats its use in Oki? These are meaty d.1s, and the reset kinda foils the idea.
Also have you tried the d.1 b.23 frame trap yet? My god it makes me want to do d.1 b.23 b.23 allllll day long.
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15 frame, 4 slower than d.1. On that he can pretty much check you with b.1(low) or b.2(overhead) if you don't armor fast enough. He gets a combo off the low into hard knockdown into vortex, and overhead is a hard knockdown to vortex but it's difficult to hit confirm. However it's only -6 so Bane can't punish.

Also taking into account that Deathstroke will have meter by the time Bane gets in, so he can push block if things are getting too heated and reset the situation back to standing 3 range.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Deathstroke laughably loses out on j.3 if we go for our overhead f.2d option because that shit cray.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
RYX said:
15 frame, 4 slower than d.1. On that he can pretty much check you with b.1(low) or b.2(overhead) if you don't armor fast enough. He gets a combo off the low into hard knockdown into vortex, and overhead is a hard knockdown to vortex but it's difficult to hit confirm. However it's only -6 so Bane can't punish.

Also taking into account that Deathstroke will have meter by the time Bane gets in, so he can push block if things are getting too heated and reset the situation back to standing 3 range.
Click to expand...
Standing 3 is slower than d.1, so what stops d.1 from checking him on practically every wake-up? Beats most options and whatnot.
And push blocking yeah, its nifty but at level 3 we can punish a push block.
 
S

ShenYuan

Noob
I read the PM. I'm gonna treat it objectively...? But I'm gonna be cynical and say it seems the bane's got his wakeup all wrong (WW wakeup seems manageable? spin is short range.. b23able on whiff and its just one hit, and its slow so we can OS it. Hell all of WW's wakeups are slow or one hit.) and cant apply venom properly at neutral (B2 is a problem with venom doubles???). I DO think d12 might be a problem since its fast and its a quick 2 hit that might break armour but idk.

And honestly in debuff vs wonderoman, if you just block and backdash properly she wont land B113 (for the big combo) she has to come close for a B2 or 33 mixup but those hurt bad but not as bad as the B113 combo.

And I cant imagine a character reliant on normals, rushing bane on wakeup or from neutral... zoning maybe, since she has that awesome mobility... then again im the only WW/bane player at where I am so lol. I might be off totally
 
LEGI0N47

LEGI0N47

I like to play bad characters
ShenYuan said:
I think bat girl is bad because most of her movelist seems premised on her anti zoning which doesnt... work on bane... whos interest is to get in. A lot of her wakes can be stuffed with venom wakeup control.... and her mid - range tools are mostly one hit with the smokebomb thing really punishable on block. when bane has venom she kinda has to run for her life, life catwoman....
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Oh she can rushdown well too and if you get caught your fucked for a while. But I do agree you can poop on her wake ups and she needs meter for large combos, but that vortex is just stupid. Have you been in one? I've had the honor, not fun.

I've also found that fighting her you must be careful with interactables. She can punish you for trying with smokebomb or the worst is the mini tank; they drive it at you and you either take it or you jump and get smoke bombed. Never let them pick Hall of justice with her, garunteed trap for them for free. Of course the guy I was playing picked it everytime, think most Batgirl players do, why wouldn't you?
 
RWDY Nori

RWDY Nori

MK is kinda dope
big_aug said:
The way you guys talk, Deathstroke might as well not have guns at all since Bane would never get hit by them.
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Guns are bad. Nobody should have guns. People should just inject venom in their bloodstream when they are mad at somebody instead
 
B

big_aug

Kombatant
Nori Batousai said:
What do you remember from it? I have yet to play a solid WW so I'm curious from somebody who knows Bane fighting her
Click to expand...
She has that airdash that lets her get away pretty easy. Her lasso spin has to be timed just right to stuff it and it's safe on block. Her whip has great range.

Honestly, I'm not even going to talk about match ups anymore though. It's pointless. I have no idea because you go along and just destroy people and then get bodied by people who are good. The only person actually playing Bane at a high level against high level opponents is PND Mustard. The rest of us have no fucking clue.
 
RWDY Nori

RWDY Nori

MK is kinda dope
LEGI0N47 said:
Nori Batousai I have seen foxy's WW on stream once. He's pretty sick with her IMO. Theres no way I could stand up to what I saw.
Click to expand...
So same question to you then, what was in the MU that he believes really shuts down Bane? He thinks Bane is a non threat and I'm curious about any char who can really shut down Bane like that. Only 3 I've seen so far is NW, Batman and BA
 
LEGI0N47

LEGI0N47

I like to play bad characters
Well he was playing against a Supes and GL (shocker I know) so I'm sure he'd treat Bane a bit differently. That lasso does have a range farther than anything we have. And the sword stance was nasty in the corner. He combod off of the shield bash from that stance and it was massive damage. Also that air dash would be a pain in the ass for spacing, so there are lots of tools to keep you at range and space you apporpriately to do what he wants. Her AA is good too. TBH I've never face a WW at any level that I remember. That's just what I remember seeing. And by saying there's no way I could stand up to it is more refering to his lvl with WW vs. mine.
 
B

big_aug

Kombatant
All she has to do is walk back and jump and dash across the screen when you get close. Good luck trying to hit it because your inputs get messed up and it stuffs normal jump attacks.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Her EX lasso grab thing takes 4 seconds off of our venom timer, so she can stall us out pretty hard if she needs to.
 
chief713

chief713

Vertebral Subluxationist
A good friend of mine plays WW so I get a lot of offline exp in that match. I think it's 5-5, maybe 5.5 WW. Charge is a non-issue. Her bracelets blow it up for free and she gets full combo off the stagger. The match is a little weird as it's heavily momentum based. Once WW has a lifelead, it's very hard for Bane to get in and get it back. Whip outranges all his stuff, and while you can venom double punch through it, she can just air dash away once you're close.

On the other hand, if Bane gets a comfortable lifelead, WW can't do a lot to get it back. You can literally just stand still right out of tiara range and wait. If she dashes into whip range, just stand block. Outside of that, her normals are pretty short and if she gets any closer, just juice up and DP. And any air approach gets shut down by VU. She can jump forward and airdash back to bait it though so be careful.

Still, Bane has to get the first significant hit in and that's harder for him than WW (which is why the MU is probably closer to 5.5 WW). This may sound stupid, but I like to fight her on Joker Asylum Cell Block. The guessing game at the beginning negates her advantage of being able to get the first hit easier.
 
chief713

chief713

Vertebral Subluxationist
And big_aug, I live in Houston and train with Cat and the Kombat Houston crew so I have a good idea about some matchups. Even so, you're right. The game is still too young and all characters too unexplored to be throwing around some of these matchup numbers so confidently.
 
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