The Power Nth -- Hawkgirl General Discussion Thread

[TrulyAmiracle]

You can delay the WE3 if they're crouching and it'll combo.

You sure like to talk alot with no real backing up to any of your claims aside from saying "I've presented the evidence".
This whole argument is pointless unless you can provide some footage of your transcended hawkgirl gameplay, coz right now you're just playing theory fighter.

No one is saying Hawkgirl is top tier or better than GL/batman/whoever, she's a different kind of character and has one of the more unique styles in the game. Her way of approaching/pressure/mixups is a bit different than most. Doesnt mean its bad, just different.
Saying she's not easy to win with means she's low tier is retarded. Thats not how tier lists work at all.. you having an easier time derping out random wins with GL/Bats has nothing to do with how high or low they are Tier-wise.
Tier lists are built under the assumption that both players are high level players and around equal level of skill.

 

[Boodendorf]

OF COURSE GOOGLE CHROME HAD TO CRASH WHILE I WAS HALFWAY DONE WRITING.
Okay once again, time to write, my answers are in red.

Guys, I love Hawkgirl, but she's not too good in this game.
She is. It's just that she's an oddball like Blanka and people can't realize that she's actually solid. Not top, not low, but definitely mid/high.

I think she is potentially one of the 2 worst characters in the game when the game is fleshed out.
Fleshed out? We'll have to wait for the last patch then, because for now, Lobo and Bane take the cake.

I think a well trait managed Bane is scarier than Hawkgirl.
Yeah except the whole cast has a good matchup against Bane.

Her great combos are liable to whiff unless you are touching.
That's the whole point of the character, you have to get close, you have the tools to get close (we3, mc, flight, mt mb). You have to stay on the opponent, you also have the tools to stay on the opponent (we2, 3, flight, d1, b2, we3).

Her strongest midscreen will whiff depending on the game's current emotional state.
There are setups to make it so that her strongest (and not best) midscreen combo hits easily once you get a knockdown.

Everyone talks about her 6 frame f1 that is only great when touching for combos.
Interrupts standing attacks, can combo after, f1/f11 has decent range. Opponents block high against hawkgirl, so it doesn't matter if the move hits high since it's 6f.

Her dash is too slow to get you to touching distance unpunished and this game has invincible wake up attacks.
Dashing is only good in certain situations, like after a sweep. We3, mc, mb mt and flight to get in.
Hawkgirl has easily one of the better wakeup attack in the game and can wreck other wakeups thanks to we2, we3, flight, mc and mt mb.

Her flight cancel 2 can easily whiff unless touching.
If you mean 4 2 and not we2, then you shouldn't use it against opponents that are not airborne, because it's -20 on block or something, the hitbox is also decent, dunno what you're talking about here.

Her b2,2 whiffs unless close which hurts her mixups.
Sweep goes farther than b22 and gives you a free dash. It's not hard to get close anyway.
In the corner it's easy to land b22.

Her instant overhead whiffs unless touching.
IADK isn't hard to land either, dunno how you manage to whiff it.

Her jump takes too long to effectively use it to get to touching distance.
Not the point of her jump.

D1 into special moves and mace charges and mace throws will only get you so far.
d1 xx we2 avoids low hitting moves
d1 xx we3 can pretty much beat/trade anything if you delay correctly.
d1 xx we xx 4 same as d1 we3, but can lead to 45% combo in the corner.
d1 xx mc leads to 42% meterless in the corner and is safe on block.
dunno why you would want to use d1 xx mt, no point in that.

I just want a consistency patch and maybe wing evade 2 and f3 to go a little further.
Yeah let's make we2 that's +5 on block, avoid lows, leads to meterless 40% combos, completely broken! Great idea.

It's easier to win certain match ups with BANE than HG.
That is just a big fat lie.

I don't play online and am not into uploading my stuff. I'm pretty big in unveiling my tech at tourneys.
Then we can't be sure if you're truly a good HG or not, or even if you're actually just trolling everybody here.


I think WW dominates HG because of her air superiority. To me an easy match up for WW. I don't know that I agree that other match ups are heavily in her favor. I continue to practice with her, but don't think this stuff is as viable and consistent as you all do.
HG-WW is in WW's favor yes.

I'll def start checking out your stuff for idea and appreciate your feedback
Don't forget to subscribe.

I've been using her since launch and understand she's unorthodox.
So was I and so do I.

When I play fighting games I try to bring knowledge from all my previous fighting games.
Fundamentals are one (important) thing, system specifics, character specifics and matchups are another (important thing).

I agree IA divekick is best overhead, but again can easily whiff due to near point blank range only and leave you punishable unless touching.
Not the best overhead, we2 is the best overhead. Just make sure to touch the opponent then, it's not THAT hard, you can't throw out her divekick brainlessly thinking it will hit even if you're fullscreen.

WE 2 must be close to touching to take advantage of frame advantage or will be punished for whiff.
Whiff punishing we2 what, this thing has nearly no recovery, if you get hit then that means you just pressed a button after we2.


"32MTupshoulder" still whiffs on certain characters sometimes even at point blank.
Doesn't whiff on big chars.
3 mt mb up shoulder doesn't whiff on normal/small chars.

WE 3 is not positive at all times, put Luthor of reversal with Corp charge. You can not d1 (which is 6 f) before you get blasted by Corp charge (6f) unless close to max distance of WE3. This means many characters can punish with their 6f starters if you attempt to d1 after a WE3 from too close of a distance. WE2 is hella positive, but again if it could go a little further it would allow you to d1 WE2 from a lil bit further away than close to point blank distance. Thins means there is a huge gap between WE2 and WE3 distance for frame advantage. And if you do get there, you still have to rely on f1, or d1 or get beat out by 6 or 7 frame normals, hence my remark about essentially spamming d1 with her.
Read this: http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/wing-evade-block-advantage.31297/
As much as it is spacing dependent, delaying we works upclose.

Her advancing strings can get blown up due to the first strike's lack of speed and range to get to WE2 frame advantage.
Then don't use the slower strings?

Her air mace throw MB is negative on block which doesn't allow that pressure.
Not punishable though, it's your job to bait out your opponent trying to punish your air mt mb.

Her ground Mace Throw, although positive pushes them back to far to take advantage of it, unless they are ducking.
You can duck mace throw, meaning you'll avoid the chip damages of the mace. If they block while standing then you can still mc (13f) or we3 to get close.

Even the amazing d1 whiffs. Smart players know to block HG high the mass majority of the time.
If you make d1 whiff, then I think you're trying to do it from fullscreen.

She can only force low block with sweep.
And b22, and any attack that hits doesn't hit crouching char because people might want to avoid it and punish you.

"B2 does have more range than 3 as a starter" But if b2,2 can't be used from that distance we have to cancel to WE which puts us right back up to my comment above about WE2 and 3.
If you're at b2's max range, then b2 we3 is probably safe.

I do appreciate you all's commitment to this character and the tech you come up with. One last question are Boo's videos of offline play which heavily differentiates from online play.
My offline scene isn't as active as yours.

I've also yet to see a great HG in tourney's.
Everybody's busy learning the top tiers and don't want to waste time learning Hawkgirl because she's unorthodox.

offline things can't be exploited and things are punished easier due to lack of latency. It always makes a huge difference in every fighting game. No disrespect, but all tourney folks know that. This game's net code, while better than MK's, is still relatively horrible compared to say SF3 third strike, SC5, and TTT2. Even in those games there's a huge difference offline.
Well duh, this game doesn't have Skullgirls' netcode, of course, but multiple people here (not just the hawkgirl boards) do say that the netcode is good enough to represent who would win offline (that is if there are no lagspikes and if the delay isn't too big).

I want my theories proven wrong.
Yeah just give me a sec I'm writing.

I know this is going to come out completely wrong [Blahblahblah]
Yeah I already answered to this, even if I was angry because I didn't sleep.

You take this too personal bro, good luck to you in your future. I produced evidence in writing, bro. Read it and give evidence to counter it. KH does stream, but I don't play on their stream. Saying you can beat all of us or whatever, but since we can't play, it's not evidence. All I have to say is I can beat you and what evidence is that? Go talk to pros about online vs offline. I said you all would take it wrong and you obviously did. So good luck. I can read evidence and don't need video to prove it. I understand written factual data as well as video, but your video proved my evidence not yours. Read the other's who commented, some agree with me. Accept it, not everyone agrees with you. That's life
Please stop with the bullshit "bro" and whatever life concept you have on the internet, it's getting on my nerve. You don't need videos to prove it and you say writing random shit is just as good? Okay then write me a match. Yes, with all the details of exactly what was going through both players sides, with the timer, the position of each characters at every frame. Oh and I want ten different matches, because just one isn't enough.
A majority of HG players here are agreeing with me that she doesn't need to be balanced.

PS I would be happy with Sagat Tier as he is not that good.
SF2x Sagat
Vanilla SF4 Sagat

Not sure I did every post, lemme check.

EDIT:

Well, then think it's necessary. Go to practice mode and test the shit out yourself.
We did, well at least I did.

Then you can see to believe.
wat

Are you too lazy? I've listed evidence, but you are countering me, not the evidence.
I just did, I didn't before because I didn't have free time, life is a bitch and stuff.

People have come in and seconded evidence I have said.
Two dudes, one which is from the lex luthor boards judging from the bruce willis avatar, and another one I'm not sure if he mains HG or not. We don't see them here often on the boards either, not saying that they're bad, but they didn't discuss most of the stuff we did with us.

You are entitled to your opinion and I don't have to show you a video to know the things I listed are facts.
Yes you have to show me a video, because I tested and you're wrong.

People are writing other holes in you and boo's arguments but what have you done to write back. I know, zero.
Sorry I didn't count how much red I put in your quotes.

If I have to prove myself, then I got a question for you... who in the blue hell are you? Do you know me? Do you pay my rent?
He's a dude that's here for fun. And no we don't know you, this is exactly why I won't trust you, especially since you don't have any gameplay of your own up.

BTW WE3 sometimes clearly misses people even if d1 connects and they are ducking. And easy to react to and punish that's 41% for Aqua, 47% for supes. Do I have to list everyone to appease you?
BTW whenever we3 whiffs on ducked opponents it's a free crossup.
BTW you can delay we3 to bait any kind of punish.
BTW you can delay we3 after d1 hits to actually combo.

 

[RunwayMafia]

Boodendorf
What the hell is going on in this thread, lol? I just read your massive post and all I can say is this 'bro' is seriously disillusioned and just flat out bored. HG is VERY well rounded and needs no changes. You and I and many others in this community have the experience in the battlefield with HG and we all know our shit. I play a lot of the top offline players and they all agree that she is solid...so what is his argument? And this whole online/offline argument is garbage....anyone with solid fundamentals and a brainstem can wreck people just as easily offline as online. HawkGirl can win matches with never landing a single combo...but can also destroy people on the ground...I'm confused, how does she suck? lol

 

[Boodendorf]

Boodendorf
What the hell is going on in this thread, lol? I just read your massive post and all I can say is this 'bro' is seriously disillusioned and just flat out bored. HG is VERY well rounded and needs no changes. You and I and many others in this community have the experience in the battlefield with HG and we all know our shit. I play a lot of the top offline players and they all agree that she is solid...so what is his argument? And this whole online/offline argument is garbage....anyone with solid fundamentals and a brainstem can wreck people just as easily offline as online. HawkGirl can win matches with never landing a single combo...but can also destroy people on the ground...I'm confused, how does she suck? lol

I was wondering where you went lol, it was weird you weren't answering in this thread lol.

 

[RunwayMafia]

I was wondering where you went lol, it was weird you weren't answering in this thread lol.

I've been working on Part 2 of my wing evade guide...which is something this gentleman should check out (if he truly thinks she sucks). Also, I'd like to point out, my defending of HawkGirl does not come from a fanboy's standpoint (I never knew she existed until this game)...I defend her because I can see that she is a diamond in the rough. She may not have a vortex or true 50/50's...but quite frankly she doesn't need them. (I'm preaching to the choir, I know, but he needs to realize this).

 

[4x4lo8o]

Did Hawkgirl get a stealth nerf in the last patch?
I could have sworn she could throw the flying robot interactables on watchtower while in flight mode before, but now she can't. Am I mistaken, or did something change?

 

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

I was referring to people say use that to close the distance to get to point blank range. I was saying why that is not optimal. I agree with what you wrote, but that doesn't prove a viable and practical way to get to touching distance to utilize her other strings. That's it.

So if you agree with me that opponents have to respect a blocked WE3, how is that not a viable and practical way to get in and use her arsenal? Obviously you're confused and just proved my point.

whole butthurt rant at post #500

My position was respectfully stated and apparently everyone here agrees with it (regarding uploading vids of your Hawkgirl gameplay). You've just illustrated how much of a blatant jackass you are.

 

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

Did Hawkgirl get a stealth nerf in the last patch?
I could have sworn she could throw the flying robot interactables on watchtower while in flight mode before, but now she can't. Am I mistaken, or did something change?

I can throw the flying robot interactable just fine in flight mode using 1+2 or the interactable button. Is it not working for you???

 

[4x4lo8o]

Hmm, yesterday in a match I couldn't throw them. I even stopped to check and make sure I wasn't just missing it. I'll have to double check when I get home. Actually now that I think about it there's a chance that what actually happened was that my controls were messed up that entire set and I didn't realize it.
Thanks, I'll have to go back and see what happened.

 

[TAS_DASH]

So if you agree with me that opponents have to respect a blocked WE3, how is that not a viable and practical way to get in and use her arsenal? Obviously you're confused and just proved my point.



My position was respectfully stated and apparently everyone here agrees with it. You've just illustrated how much of a blatant jackass you are.

I

So if you agree with me that opponents have to respect a blocked WE3, how is that not a viable and practical way to get in and use her arsenal? Obviously you're confused and just proved my point.



My position was respectfully stated and apparently everyone here agrees with it. You've just illustrated how much of a blatant jackass you are.

I never said "butthurt rant" so now you all are misquoting me. Good job and now everyone knows you're full of shit. Your reading comprehension is way sub par. Have you considered a decent education to learn these things so you can comprehend English. Obviously you guys are ignoring the other posts that are in this thread by saying everyone is agreeing with you. You guys are calling others jackasses. You two have a super insecurity issues. People exposing holes in your theories and now you go into attack mode. Good job lil' boys.

 

[TAS_DASH]

Y

OF COURSE GOOGLE CHROME HAD TO CRASH WHILE I WAS HALFWAY DONE WRITING.
Okay once again, time to write, my answers are in red.




















Not sure I did every post, lemme check.

EDIT:

you're an idiot just for thinking those no difference in online and offline. I'm getting on your nerves. Are you that sensitive... and you call yourself a man? Wow!

I also love how you left important pieces of the selected quotes out. That's a political term called spinning that is used for one's agenda or propaganda. You won you're lil' online tournament and now you're HG god... get over yourself. You suck bro, your video proves it. You and you're lil' 3 friends who desperately come to your aid like a damsel in distress need to get over yourselves. But since you're HG god with you're crappy sorry skills in you're tournament vids I guess you don't care. Have fun, call me when you win something legit.

 

[RunwayMafia]

LOL. This person sounds mentally unwell. Jodi Arias...is that you? Boodendorf is extremely good and is the most knowledgable of the character thus far. So yeah, of course we will defend him.

 

[Espio]

The flaming stops now, if you don't have anything constructive to contribute, do not post.


We don't all have to agree on everything, but there should be a certain level of respect amongst posters, only warning I'm going to give.

 

[RunwayMafia]

The flaming stops now, if you don't have anything constructive to contribute, do not post.


We don't all have to agree on everything, but there should be a certain level of respect amongst posters, only warning I'm going to give.

Perhaps you should be checking the gentleman who aggressively provoked Boodendorf and others...and then really just went off the handle. We should be able to RESPOND and defend ourselves...especially when the provoker starts initiating insults. Just sayin'

 

[Espio]

Perhaps you should be checking the gentleman who aggressively provoked Boodendorf and others...and then really just went off the handle. We should be able to RESPOND and defend ourselves...especially when the provoker starts initiating insults. Just sayin'

I'm well aware already, I think you're missing the point. My post was more or less directed at those starting conflict, but either way my warning still stands and the flaming needs to stop from all parties involved.

Yes, I know who started it and all that, I've been reading the thread.

Nobody is telling anybody they are not allowed to defend their views/positions etc.

 

[Boodendorf]

Okay, back to the conversation on Hawkgirl's tit- I mean Hawkgirl's abititslities!
I've noticed that 3 actually beats armors much better than f12 or f11. It's very effective against Bane.

 

[RunwayMafia]

Okay, back to the conversation on Hawkgirl's tit- I mean Hawkgirl's abititslities!
I've noticed that 3 actually beats armors much better than f12 or f11. It's very effective against Bane.

Speaking of 3...I played a Batgirl last night and I kept stuffing their wake-up's in the corner with a standing 3...I rarely use 3 (I don't know why...) so is there a unique property to it?

 

[EmoScoobyDoo]

Most of her wake ups aren't invincible (i think only smoke bomb) from when i tested them i would assume that since standing 3 hits more than once it has longer active frames so even if its hit a bit too early the active frames keep going making it a good oki option up close

 

[Espio]

Speaking of 3...I played a Batgirl last night and I kept stuffing their wake-up's in the corner with a standing 3...I rarely use 3 (I don't know why...) so is there a unique property to it?

Standing 3 is really good for stuffing wake ups from my observations, but in order to make it safe I'd just do the entire string of 3, 2, back 1 so you can stuff potential wakeups safer and get the 17% damage (this string is so good even as a stand alone string because of the mid hitting solid range and safeness, it's listed as +1 I believe).


Because she's spinning her mace is a big part of why it probably beats wake ups cause the normal is looping back so it eats invincibility frames if a character has them, just my guess.

 

[Pho-king_ill]

Hawky's 3 is damn good. I love blowing up jump backs against cornered foes with it then confirming into ridiculous damage. On top of that I think it's going to be a useful tool for the "whiff cancel option select" tech mentioned in Doubleperfect's thread in the Grundy forum. Aris did a video on it as well.

So I.E. Hawkgirl can score an untechable knockdown with D3, Throw out a 3 on the opponent's wake-up and cancel into WE to force their reversal to whiff which gives her a free punish. A few options this works well against are Batman's cape parry and Supe's low scoop, but it doesn't seem like there's a definite option to go for as there are situations where the opponent will block and WE(2) and/or WE(3) whiff. Maybe 3(1-hit)~MC will be a useful option as the string itself hits mid, jails, and the MC punish window is small (if it even exists). I'll do some more research and try to compile what works against what char and etc.

Btw, not sure if anyone noticed but I think the 1.03 patch may have changed the WE(3) command to WE(up) in the move list.

 

[TurboTaco]

Hmm, yesterday in a match I couldn't throw them. I even stopped to check and make sure I wasn't just missing it. I'll have to double check when I get home. Actually now that I think about it there's a chance that what actually happened was that my controls were messed up that entire set and I didn't realize it.
Thanks, I'll have to go back and see what happened.

I've noticed this happening to me once or twice in a online game too, is it a bug?

 

[Boodendorf]

I've noticed this happening to me once or twice in a online game too, is it a bug?

Yep, definitely a bug, it's pretty random.

Talking about bug, that little float animation that happens randomly when doing mb air mace toss which makes you vulnerable for one second is really annoying and random, this need to be fixed.

 

[Miss Kanzuki]

i dont wanna see anymore damn CW WW or HQ skins until HG finally gets a new one...an unmasked one would be pretty. She already the hottest one NO LESBO

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

Okay, question and comment.

Question: Those talking about using 3 to stuff armor and wake-ups. You are using the 3 to land TWO full hits correct? If so, doesn't that prevent you from finishing the string with 2 afterwards? If you're doing 3>2, doesn't the 2 come out too slow to stuff the armored attack?

Comment: Blanka to HG is not a fair SF to Injustice comparison. I think she should be E Honda. You either can zone her out, or you can't. If you can't, you lose. Simple as that. If you can, she loses, because her unsafe movement is a magnet for projectiles. Against zoners, I actually switch out to Bane, because I would rather have his dash over HG's anything against zoners.

 

[Miss Kanzuki]

Okay, question and comment.

Question: Those talking about using 3 to stuff armor and wake-ups. You are using the 3 to land TWO full hits correct? If so, doesn't that prevent you from finishing the string with 2 afterwards? If you're doing 3>2, doesn't the 2 come out too slow to stuff the armored attack?

Comment: Blanka to HG is not a fair SF to Injustice comparison. I think she should be E Honda. You either can zone her out, or you can't. If you can't, you lose. Simple as that. If you can, she loses, because her unsafe movement is a magnet for projectiles. Against zoners, I actually switch out to Bane, because I would rather have his dash over HG's anything against zoners.

It works when I take Espio's advice and do the entire string 32 B1 but I guess I can see it being not as powerful if its a character who's armored attack is stronger but Espio maybe should clarify tho im just saying that I go for the full string for the safeness