Whiff Cancel Options to stuff wakeup tactics

[jaym7018]

What if superman just blocks?
the jab hits and the air throw comes out... I don't seem to understand the revolutionary utility here..

Does it seem to anybody else that the expo showing how this technique works with super, was borderline pointless?

If one does a low jab and prebuffers into super on the hope that the opponent simple wakes up invincibly reversal, wouldn't the super come out if they simply blocked? If that's the case then why not just raw super instead? if the super comes out whether or not they do an invincible reversal or not, what's the point?

Is backdashing the only option that this technique actually 'option-selects' against? if that's the case then I'm having trouble with seeing the value in this, what am I missing?

You arent missing anything this is exactly what i was saying.

 

[HungryforPasta]

You arent missing anything this is exactly what i was saying.

dang... I was hoping I was wrong and missed something.
Oh well.

 

[TONY-T]

Yeah this is mk9 tech. Cyrax used this tech on the Shang Tsung infinite. Still good videos guys! Its good to see the game evolving.

 

[jaym7018]

Only invincible on wake up no? I just got done testing it.

Also, I didn't name the thread and agree that the title is a bit over dramatic.

What that other guy was describing is a true option select. If you could do a d1 b3(mb) and have b3 only come out if they did a wake up attack or backdash but not come out on block that would be an option select. And someone like catwoman with a b3 that can reach back dashes that would be game breaking.

 

[doubleperfect]

Therecis no need for the normal though. In your vid you do d1 flip which obviously would get punished if they blocked instead of a wakeup. You punished the scoop with flip but the d1 before hand served no purpose.Doing a normal into armor b3 also serves no purpose it doesnt do anything a naked mb b3 wouldnt do. If you found a move that stuffed a wake up and was safe on block you wouldnt need to do a normal for it to work.

hold on. not everyones is punishable.

hawkgirl vs killerfrost (one of the best wake ups in the game "slide move")

just tested this example. it works

EX: during killer frosts wake up black ice (slide) do a meaty standing 3 as hawkgirl into wing evade and hit 2 during wing evade for the overhead, will hit her during slide animation if it comes out. if not, (if opponent is blocking) opponent might block low, forcing them to block the first attack and will be forced to block high for the next attack. and even if they back dash after block standing 3 and you still COMMIT in doing hawkgirls wing evade 2 its still safe that it WILL NOT BE PUNISHED.

so......is this enough purpose for YOU??? test it if you dont believe mee!!

 

[HungryforPasta]

The real discovery is this:

~Thanks to doubleperfect

It's been discovered that striking an opponent duing an invincible, wake-up special with a meaty normal, although it "whiffs" against the opponent and doesn't do any damage, still nonetheless makes contact

at which point can still be cancelled into specials/wall bounces/supers.~

 

[jaym7018]

hold on. not everyones is punishable.

hawkgirl vs killerfrost (one of the best wake ups in the game "slide move")

just tested this example. it works

EX: during killer frosts wake up black ice (slide) do a meaty standing 3 as hawkgirl into wing evade and hit 2 during wing evade for the overhead, will hit her during slide animation if it comes out. if not, (if opponent is blocking) opponent might block low, forcing them to block the first attack and will be forced to block high for the next attack. and even if they back dash after block standing 3 and you still COMMIT in doing hawkgirls wing evade 2 its still safe that it WILL NOT BE PUNISHED.

so......is this enough purpose for YOU??? test it if you dont believe mee!!

Again doing the standing 3 serves no purpose. Just slightly delay the db22 from hawkgirl during the hard knockdown she will still punish the slide exactly the same. If they block yoi are still safe. My point is doing the normal serves no purpose.

 

[doubleperfect]

standing 3 still serves a purpose still. its an active hit box if they try to attack you normally on wake up they will get hit and everything i mentioned can be combo'ed. if block the plus frames on standing 3 is good enough that when wing evade 2 comes out you cant interrupt it. not only that but wing evade is an evasion move so you dont have to worry about getting hit as well.

 

[RYX]

Again doing the standing 3 serves no purpose. Just slightly delay the db22 from hawkgirl during the hard knockdown she will still punish the slide exactly the same. If they block yoi are still safe. My point is doing the normal serves no purpose.

It's an easier buffer that way.

 

[jaym7018]

It's an easier buffer that way.

This is true. But that hardly makes it groundbreaking tech. Its just an aid to get your timing.

 

[RYX]

This is true. But that hardly makes it groundbreaking tech. Its just an aid to get your timing.

That's why I was confused. I thought people did this already. But it's helpful for people who didn't know about it.


Just not ground breaking

 

[jaym7018]

standing 3 still serves a purpose still. its an active hit box if they try to attack you normally on wake up they will get hit and everything i mentioned can be combo'ed. if block the plus frames on standing 3 is good enough that when wing evade 2 comes out you cant interrupt it. not only that but wing evade is an evasion move so you dont have to worry about getting hit as well.

Who the hell uses a normal after waking up from a hard KD? Especialy with hawkgirl looming over you with her t rex reach.

 

[doubleperfect]

Who the hell uses a normal after waking up from a hard KD? Especialy with hawkgirl looming over you with her t rex reach.

lol. im just giving you a good example, there is certain situations that will get her within close range. wing evade 3 already covers a ton of range and knocksdown opponent and potentially puts them close enough to the corner so they dont get roll back to far from the hit.

meaty attacks if done right with cancelling with the right move is a whole lot better than trying to set up a slower move thats obvious too see before it hits you. im just giving you some insight on some things that are being overlooked.

no matter what i say, you will more than likely still have the notion that standing attacks are pointless on doing it on wake up characters. even if the options are good ):

 

[Aris]

There is no option select in the video per say, however, what was said in the video can lead to many being discovered. You guys are getting hung up on semantics. Direct your energy towards testing.

 

[doubleperfect]

There is no option select in the video per say, however, what was said in the video can lead to many being discovered. You guys are getting hung up on semantics. Direct your energy towards testing.

thank you. i had to make a point with the hawkgirl testing i did. there is nothing unsafe about doing what i mentioned on the set up.

 

[killa_solid]

There is no option select in the video per say, however, what was said in the video can lead to many being discovered. You guys are getting hung up on semantics. Direct your energy towards testing.

technically, it is a true option select for back dashes. A normal canceled into a special will not happen if they back dash, so you can use this to do an option select special on your opponent's wakeup that would perhaps be punishable on a wakeup back dash but not on block. Idk if any char has a special like that, but food for thought.

 

[True Grave]

I've seen this happen to me a time or two as Aquaman, but never paid any attention to it. Now its got my attention. Good find.

 

[jaym7018]

There is no option select in the video per say, however, what was said in the video can lead to many being discovered. You guys are getting hung up on semantics. Direct your energy towards testing.

I wil do more tommorrow But the OP says do grundys d1 intobair grab to punish supermans grab i did this and it works what also works is doing the move without d1. All d1 does is help you with timing. I also did what you said with hawkgirl same result i was able to punish the wake up slide with and without the standing 3.

 

[HungryforPasta]

thank you. i had to make a point with the hawkgirl testing i did. there is nothing unsafe about doing what i mentioned on the set up.

You're right, it's not unsafe
it's just redundant/superfluous.

 

[DoctrineDark]

But this is not new, I discovered this in mk9 and I showed this tech in the bane tribute (please look at the min 5:11) I thought you had understood that this was a general characteristic of the game, for that reason I put “from mk9” and I thought is not necesary make a special video to explain this, for this reason I never finished the vid but anyway here I leave

Guys,really,I do not come to fight for these things as other people, just want to make clear that it is not new.

 

[doubleperfect]

I wil do more tommorrow But the OP says do grundys d1 intobair grab to punish supermans grab i did this and it works what also works is doing the move without d1. All d1 does is help you with timing. I also did what you said with hawkgirl same result i was able to punish the wake up slide with and without the standing 3.

you are misunderstanding the standing 3 ):
its not to help with the timing. as i said, if standing 3 hits/or gets blocked from normal wake up you can continue the set up. AND whats makes it good too is that you can cancel the standing 3 if it doesnt hit into a wing evade IF a invincible special comes out too

 

[jaym7018]

you are misunderstanding the standing 3 ):
its not to help with the timing. as i said, if standing 3 hits/or gets blocked from normal wake up you can continue the set up. AND whats makes it good too is that you can cancel the standing 3 if it doesnt hit into a wing evade IF a invincible special comes out too

Wing evade 2 by itself does fhe same thing.

 

[HungryforPasta]

talking in circles...
what needed to be said has been said...

and what flaws needed to be pointed out have been made abundantly clear.

Kudos to those of you fighting the good fight and trying your best to discover more tricks and meta for the game
keep up the work fellas <3

 

[Benzo]

This could be big. Gotta test this with Lex. This should be interesting.

 

[Konqrr]

Teleport isnt a wake up attack.

It is now.

And Aris is right... there are useful ways to use this and only more to be found.