Match-up Discussion Aquaman Matchup Discussion

[Aquamang]

Okay, Grundy. WTF do you do against Grundy? This is the only match-up I can't handle for shit right now. I thought meterburn trident rush would deal with a lot of his armor but surprisingly, it does not. I still just get grabbed.

I'm really finding fuck-all reason to even press buttons against this dude. Running away isn't that good either. Every blocked trident is just a free dash in for him and it's not like I don't have to deal with Swamp Hands at that range either.

Really just feels like his own jumping is the only thing Grundy has to worry about in this match, and that other than that, he can just do literally whatever the fuck he wants.

I still can't believe he can armor through trident rush.

Swamp Hands really shouldn't be much of a concern as you can jump them easily. Against Grundy's I stay out of the corner with every fiber of my being. A lot of his stuff is also quite easy to react to at Midscreen and punish on wiff. Cannot tell you how many Grundy's I have hit with a neutral jump after baiting a wiffed grab or other approach.

 

[Ben Reed]

Okay, I was playing a bit in the lab vs. Deathstroke to test low gunshot nerf.

Thanks to the nerf you can now reversal punish Deathstroke's Low Shots on block with From The Deep (DB2), almost anywhere short of 100% full screen (think Raven range).

But my advice to you guys, even the people better than me at Aquaman? DON'T TRY IT, lol.

The reason why I think you shouldn't even try to punish this move with reversal DB2 is that that shit is MUCH harder than the CPU set to reversal mode makes it look. As a human, getting that punish without messing up is EXTREMELY hard to do. I would honestly compare it to a Super Turbo reversal, it's THAT hard.

The reasons it's so difficult to punish:

(1) LGS does not jail. If you release low block or hit an attack button before blocking the 2nd hit (both of which can naturally happen buffering a reversal), you will get hit and DS gets frame advantage.
(2) LGS inflicts extremely little blockstun (which, obviously, is why it doesn't jail). You have a VERY short window during the 2nd shot block to buffer a reversal before you lose that window. And of course even if you were blocking straight down, you STILL have to go back to neutral, THEN start your command, whether you're using default or alternate controls. Unless you're playing on a Hitbox-like controller where going through neutral is VERY fast and easy (and risks NO other inputs from a finger/hand slip), this is VERY hard to do QUICKLY and without messing up.

This means that unless you are an absolute MACHINE, typically one of two things happens trying to blow up LGS with Aquaman's DB2:

(1) You do it too early and you get hit by the 2nd gunshot. Not a lot of damage, but DS gets frame advantage and a free second gun afterwards to push you back.
(2) You do it too late and DS blocks DB2. DS has a MUCH easier time punishing Aquaman DB2 than Aquaman does punishing LGS, so against any DS with a brain, you'll typically eat a Quick Guns punish followed by chip+pushback from a free gun afterwards.

But the good news is, of course, that you don't need this extremely hard punish to beat Deathstroke in the first place. Guns are annoying, but solid blocking and a cautious approach will eventually get you into mid-close range where you have a LOT more tools to control Deathstroke, and he has to take big risks to kick you out. Honestly if anything this matchup has always been in Aquaman's favor, as long as you play patiently and pay attention to what zoning approaches the DS player favors. Does he like to check your feet with low guns? keep you from jumping with air guns? Does he intentionally do nothing to provoke you to dash or jump on cue? Will he jump at you with jump 3 if you creep into a certain range? Can you get to a range where you can provoke him to try and anti-air you with Sword Flip, and then bait and punish it?

Anyway, moral of this story is, don't be a hero vs. Deathstroke. You don't need to be in order to win.

 

[nymous]

Anybody got tips vs raven and frost? Most of their combo starters cause a juggle state on the first hit (soul crush and slide) which means that trait cannot bail you. Ground trident can't punish raven's grabs and you pretty much have to play her game and one bad read will put you right back at half screen or 3/4 screen which is right where she wants you. Also have to watch out for wake up grabs. Jumping is pretty much a no no. Against frost, gotta watch out for slide all the time. One slide hits and you are in for 40% and resets. Ugh, I hate these two so much.

What kind of punishes do you guys have vs. raven's soul crush? I know up close b12 will punish. Will f2 punish outside of sweep?

 

[Ben Reed]

f2 is 10 frames. Pretty sure Soul Crush is AT LEAST -10 on block (better be more than that, lol, only -10 on a move with that range+startup would be way too nuts), so it should punish at that range. But I wonder if you block it at that close of a range, if it isn't so advantageous you couldn't walk half a step and do b12 or 22 instead for a full combo (or do b2 if you think walking will add too much to the startup).

 

[Dizzy]

I think KF's 16f Iceberg can punish Raven's Soul Crush. So if you're in scoop range that should punish.

 

[Espio]

I think KF's 16f Iceberg can punish Raven's Soul Crush. So if you're in scoop range that should punish.

Yeah, KF can definitely punish with iceberg.

 

[MrSoloLobo]

Guys I am having a lot of trouble with Hawkgirl. I'm getting kinda good with aquaman and i think HG is the toughest, potentially 4-6. What do you guys think? Am I just missing something I should do to beat Hawkgirl?

 

[dabuz]

Rush her down like no tomorrow, Aquaman's zoning can't touch her in the air.

 

[MrSoloLobo]

Rush her down like no tomorrow, Aquaman's zoning can't touch her in the air.

Yeah thats the only thing thay will sometimes work but it seems like everything she does is plus on block lol

 

[dabuz]

It mostly is but a simple D1 doesn't let her pressure with blockstrings. Her mace range is really bad and the only option she has to get in past Aquaman's spacing game is j.d3. (Super easy to bait and punish). Her Mace Charge is annoying and one of the most common pressure moves but if you read that you can jump forward 3 and that will hit, letting you do b12 or db1 into a full combo.

 

[AK TwoOneTwo_Remy]

Hey guys, need a bit of help in the Adam matchup. Lost to a really solid Teth player last night. Keep thinking of what I could have done better and I'm at a bit of a loss.

I can block him just fine, what I need help dealing with is his divekick. Looks to have a good hitbox (tried to jump. Got hit. Might have been too late.) Am I stuck trying to react
with MB b3?

 

[Aquamang]

Hey guys, need a bit of help in the Adam matchup. Lost to a really solid Teth player last night. Keep thinking of what I could have done better and I'm at a bit of a loss.

I can block him just fine, what I need help dealing with is his divekick. Looks to have a good hitbox (tried to jump. Got hit. Might have been too late.) Am I stuck trying to react
with MB b3?

MB B3 is definitely an option. Honestly I tend to neutral jump when I see a Black Adam jump up back depending on spacing. You can also D2 him depending on the angle.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Hey guys, need a bit of help in the Adam matchup. Lost to a really solid Teth player last night. Keep thinking of what I could have done better and I'm at a bit of a loss.

I can block him just fine, what I need help dealing with is his divekick. Looks to have a good hitbox (tried to jump. Got hit. Might have been too late.) Am I stuck trying to react
with MB b3?

You can uppercut it if you see it coming. Thats what I do normally.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Does anybody have a lot of experience in the Superman matchup? That fwd23 isn't fun to deal with in footsies....

 

[knight x1868]

Does anybody have a lot of experience in the Superman matchup? That fwd23 isn't fun to deal with in footsies....

It's a 5-5...

Both have amazing zoning options and corner options. The mid-game is about equal too. Superman might have a slight advantage because his starters are a bit faster but Aquaman CAN out-zone Superman. The games I have played against good Superman players have been pretty even.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

It's a 5-5...

Both have amazing zoning options and corner options. The mid-game is about equal too. Superman might have a slight advantage because his starters are a bit faster but Aquaman CAN out-zone Superman. The games I have played against good Superman players have been pretty even.

I got some sets in with superman players today, I can agree with even. he can't really zone without meter and then AM can walk back and do his thing.

 

[knight x1868]

I got some sets in with superman players today, I can agree with even. he can't really zone without meter and then AM can walk back and do his thing.

Yeah, the air dash and MB eye beam are pains to deal with. It's a very close match up.

 

[AK TwoOneTwo_Remy]

speaking of the superman matchup, when in his damn f2,3 breath loop, what are Arthur's best options. i know i can d1, but if he delays the second f2,3 i get his, MB back 3 if he doesn't use trait i guess. can't backdash. can't jump. would a raw-ass scoop work?? trying to find out my options. supes doesn't scare me as much as some of the cast though

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

speaking of the superman matchup, when in his damn f2,3 breath loop, what are Arthur's best options. i know i can d1, but if he delays the second f2,3 i get his, MB back 3 if he doesn't use trait i guess. can't backdash. can't jump. would a raw-ass scoop work?? trying to find out my options. supes doesn't scare me as much as some of the cast though

D1, d2 will trade which is in your favor, if he tries to delay you just got out for free. Mb b3, or just be safe and Pushblock.

 

[madefok]

Since this is the MATCH-UP Thread, i'll ask here.

Is there a SOLID STRATEGY against Deathstroke?

This is definitely one of Aquaman's worst match-ups and i can't find much info on this.
Specially against those players who know how to play Deathstroke and don't just spam Gun Shots
without thinking.

Is there a guide/tutorial somewhere where there's a general idea on how to approach him.

Meaning, from full screen and mid screen. Do i have to always LOW block and walk?
Do i jump over the gun shots (high and low)? Do i wait for him to jump?
Since water shield has slow start-up, when do i use it? Can i punish anything with From the Deep?

Any help is appreciated.

 

[dabuz]

If DS is just throwing out gun shots one after the other, you can blow him up with from the deep between each burst after blocking (unless he does EX machine gun). A smart DS wont' do that and after EVERY gun shot (except EX machine gun) you get a free dash in.

Don't jump as your main approach, block dash instead. DS is limited on wakeup since trident rush BEATS his sword flip and you can punish his sword flip on whiff or block with a full combo.

Water Shield I find good to bait EX lows but otherwise it's not particularly useful unless you can close the match out by stalling with it.

DS has to respect Aquaman once AM is in range to dash then attack with b12, f13, ect. From there it's about reading and conditioning your opponent with a superior footsie game and damage output.

Probably a 6-4 MU in Aquaman's favor.

 

[AK TwoOneTwo_Remy]

Just block and dash vs deathstroke. Jumping can be risky cause i f u screw up and get hit, you lose ground. Just work your way on. DS players tend to panic when u get into footsie range. Most bad DS players throw out sword cartwheel (whatever that move is called lol) which is fully punishable. I try not to jump at all in this MU. Its too risky. I'll either eat some bullets or a cartwheel. This is definitely in Arthur's favor though. Don't forget to trident check after all of DS' guns too =)

 

[madefok]

If DS is just throwing out gun shots one after the other, you can blow him up with from the deep between each burst after blocking (unless he does EX machine gun). A smart DS wont' do that and after EVERY gun shot (except EX machine gun) you get a free dash in.
...

Just block and dash vs deathstroke. ... Most bad DS players throw out sword cartwheel (whatever that move is called lol) which is fully punishable. ... Don't forget to trident check after all of DS' guns too =)

I know that Deathstroke's Sword Flip (Vergil like Air Spin move) is fully punishable on block
with [B+1, 2] combos, but,

are the Gun Shots (high and/or low) really punishable on block with From the Deep (Ground Trident move)?

Do i have to input it as a REVERSAL? Or can i just wait for the blockstun to wear off?
Is it viable online?

 

[dabuz]

Punishable with a reversal but because it's a multihit move it's basically unviable to try and reversal online.

 

[Hellion_96]

Okay, I was playing a bit in the lab vs. Deathstroke to test low gunshot nerf.

Thanks to the nerf you can now reversal punish Deathstroke's Low Shots on block with From The Deep (DB2), almost anywhere short of 100% full screen (think Raven range).

But my advice to you guys, even the people better than me at Aquaman? DON'T TRY IT, lol.

The reason why I think you shouldn't even try to punish this move with reversal DB2 is that that shit is MUCH harder than the CPU set to reversal mode makes it look. As a human, getting that punish without messing up is EXTREMELY hard to do. I would honestly compare it to a Super Turbo reversal, it's THAT hard.

The reasons it's so difficult to punish:

(1) LGS does not jail. If you release low block or hit an attack button before blocking the 2nd hit (both of which can naturally happen buffering a reversal), you will get hit and DS gets frame advantage.
(2) LGS inflicts extremely little blockstun (which, obviously, is why it doesn't jail). You have a VERY short window during the 2nd shot block to buffer a reversal before you lose that window. And of course even if you were blocking straight down, you STILL have to go back to neutral, THEN start your command, whether you're using default or alternate controls. Unless you're playing on a Hitbox-like controller where going through neutral is VERY fast and easy (and risks NO other inputs from a finger/hand slip), this is VERY hard to do QUICKLY and without messing up.

This means that unless you are an absolute MACHINE, typically one of two things happens trying to blow up LGS with Aquaman's DB2:

(1) You do it too early and you get hit by the 2nd gunshot. Not a lot of damage, but DS gets frame advantage and a free second gun afterwards to push you back.
(2) You do it too late and DS blocks DB2. DS has a MUCH easier time punishing Aquaman DB2 than Aquaman does punishing LGS, so against any DS with a brain, you'll typically eat a Quick Guns punish followed by chip+pushback from a free gun afterwards.

But the good news is, of course, that you don't need this extremely hard punish to beat Deathstroke in the first place. Guns are annoying, but solid blocking and a cautious approach will eventually get you into mid-close range where you have a LOT more tools to control Deathstroke, and he has to take big risks to kick you out. Honestly if anything this matchup has always been in Aquaman's favor, as long as you play patiently and pay attention to what zoning approaches the DS player favors. Does he like to check your feet with low guns? keep you from jumping with air guns? Does he intentionally do nothing to provoke you to dash or jump on cue? Will he jump at you with jump 3 if you creep into a certain range? Can you get to a range where you can provoke him to try and anti-air you with Sword Flip, and then bait and punish it?

Anyway, moral of this story is, don't be a hero vs. Deathstroke. You don't need to be in order to win.

It seems you have to input from the deep as you're blocking the guns so if they do ex you will get hit its a mixup i guess